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No New Commandment

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by HARK!, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You rgrammar needs much work. Using the CLV and not arranging it according to eh greek to English rules is where you fall short! Jesus is simply telling the disciples to love each other as Jesus loves them (agapeo_) not as Jesus loved HImself!

    YOur opining is irrelavent to what is being said in the passage! He gave the new disciples a quantitatively and qualitatively new command that goes way beyond loving someone as we love ourself. Man apart from the Holy Spirit can love with eros and phileos love but not agape love!
     
  2. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Priceless!

    Added bonus.

    Double bonus.
     
  3. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    If Yahshua added to YHWH's perfect Torah; then he made YHWH's perfect Torah less than perfect.

    If Yahshua added to YHWH's perfect Torah; then he broke YHWH's perfect Torah; which means that he was not perfect. It means that he sinned. If he sinned he was not who he claimed to be.


    (CLV) Dt 4:2
    You shall neither add to the word that I am enjoining on you, nor shall you subtract from it, but observe the instructions of Yahweh your Elohim that I am enjoining on you.

    (CLV) Dt 12:32
    Every word which I am enjoining on you today, you shall observe to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor shall you subtract from it.

    The very next verse: Queue the Deuteronomy 13 Test.
     
  4. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    You are using the words Torah and Word interchangeably.

    Unless you clearly define terms and stick to them you are in danger of sowing further confusion.
     
  5. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Interchangeably...

    Is not YHWH's Torah, the word of YHWH?
     
  6. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    No... Jesus is the Word

    There are two Torah's - the written OT Law and the eternal Law of the Spirit that sets us free from the Torah (Law) of sin and death.

    You tend to confuse the two.

    Maybe use Word of God and word of God to distinguish. Scripture is the word of God and Jesus is the Word of God.

    Also written law of God and Eternal Law of the Spirit.

    Less confusion.
     
  7. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Paul is the only one in the Bible to write of The Law of Sin and Death.

    Here is what he says:

    Romans 8 (CLV)
    1 Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, 2 for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.

    Notice that this verse is a conclusion, and draws a distinction between two laws, one of life, and one of death.

    What is Paul predicating this distinction on?

    Let's go to the first preceding verse in this letter.

    24 A wretched man am I! What will rescue me out of this body of death? Grace! 25 I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law."

    It's YHWH's Torah, verses Sin's law.

    What is sin?

    Sin is transgression of the Torah.

    One path leads to life, the other to death.

    The message has been the same since the Garden.
     
  8. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    (CLV) Jn 14:6
    Jesus is saying to him, "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one is coming to the Father except through Me.

    ==================================================
    THE WAY
    ==================================================

    (CLV) Ex 18:20
    You will warn them with the statutes and the laws and make known to them the way in which they shall go and the deeds which they shall do.

    (CLV) Dt 10:12
    And now, Israel, what is Yahweh your Elohim asking of you, save to fear Yahweh your Elohim, to walk in all His ways, to love Him and to serve Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul,

    (CLV) Jos 22:5
    But observe meticulously to keep the instruction and the law that M woses the servant of Yahweh enjoined on you: to love Yahweh your Elohim and to walk in all His ways, to observe His instructions, to cling to Him and to serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul.

    (CLV) 1Ki 2:3
    You will keep the charge of Yahweh your Elohim to walk in His ways, to observe His statutes and His instructions, His ordinances and His testimonies as written in the law of Moses, so that you may act intelligently in all that you do and everywhere that you turn around,

    (CLV) Ps 119:1
    Happy are those whose way is flawless, Who are walking in the law of Yahweh.

    (CLV) Pr 6:23
    For instruction is a lamp, and law is a light, And the reproofs of admonition are the way to life,

    (CLV) Isa 2:3
    Many peoples will come and say: Come, and let us ascend to the Mount of Yahweh, To the house of the Elohim of Jacob; And He shall direct us out of His ways, So that we may indeed walk in His paths. For from Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem.

    (CLV) Mal 2:8
    Yet you withdraw from the way. You cause many to stumble at the law. You ruin the covenant of Levi, says Yahweh of hosts.

    (CLV) Ac 24:14
    "Yet I am avowing this to you, that, according to the way which they are terming a sect, thus am I offering divine service to the hereditary God, believing all that is written, according to the law and in the prophets,

    ==================================================
    THE TRUTH
    ==================================================

    (CLV) Ps 119:142
    Your righteousness is eonian righteousness, And Your law is truth.

    (CLV) Mal 2:6
    The law of truth, it came to be in his mouth, and iniquity, it was not found on his lips. In peace and in uprightness he walked with Me, and turned many back from depravity.

    (CLV) Jn 8:31
    Jesus, then, said to the Jews who have believed Him, "If ever you should be remaining in My word, you are truly My disciples,

    (CLV) Jn 8:32
    and you will know the truth, and the truth will be making you free."

    (CLV) Ro 2:20
    a discipliner of the imprudent, a teacher of minors, having the form of knowledge and the truth in the law.

    ==================================================
    THE LIFE
    ==================================================

    (CLV) Jb 33:30
    To restore his soul from the pit, To enlighten him with the light of the living.

    (CLV) Ps 36:9
    For with You is the fountain of life; In Your light shall we see light.

    (CLV) Pr 6:23
    For instruction is a lamp, and law is a light, And the reproofs of admonition are the way to life

    ===============================================

    THE LIGHT
    ==================================================

    (CLV) Jn 8:12
    Again, then, Jesus speaks to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world. He who is following Me should under no circumstances be walking in darkness, but will be having the light of life."

    (CLV) Jb 24:13
    They are among those revolting against the light; They neither recognize its ways Nor dwell in its tracks.

    (CLV) Ps 119:105
    Your word is a lamp to my feet, And a light to my tracks.

    (CLV) Pr 6:23
    For instruction is a lamp, and law is a light, And the reproofs of admonition are the way to life,

    (CLV) Isa 51:4
    Attend to Me, My people, And, My folk, give ear to Me! For a law shall go forth from Me, And My judgment for a light of the peoples.

    (CLV) 2Co 6:14
    Do not become diversely yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness? Or what communion has light with darkness?

    (CLV) 1Jn 1:7
    Yet if we should be walking in the light as He is in the light, we are having fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, is cleansing us from every sin.

    ==================================================
    THE WORD
    ===============================================

    (CLV) Jn 1:14
    And the Word became flesh and tabernacles among us, and we gaze at His glory, a glory as of an only-begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    (CLV) Isa 2:3
    Many peoples will come and say: Come, and let us ascend to the Mount of Yahweh, To the house of the Elohim of Jacob; And He shall direct us out of His ways, So that we may indeed walk in His paths. For from Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem.

    (CLV) Jn 8:31
    Jesus, then, said to the Jews who have believed Him, "If ever you should be remaining in My word, you are truly My disciples,

    (CLV) Jn 8:32
    and you will know the truth, and the truth will be making you free."

    (CLV) Ps 119:105
    Your word is a lamp to my feet, And a light to my tracks.


    Yahshua is the living Torah!

    If we walk in his ways; we walk in the Torah.
     
  9. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Your still doing it - it seems you cant help yourself...

    I will withdraw and ask readers to beware of this confusion and bondage to law...
     
  10. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    (CLV) Ja 1:22
    Now become doers of the word, and not only listeners, beguiling yourselves.

    (CLV) Ja 1:23
    For if anyone is a listener to the word and not a doer, this one simulates a man considering the face he inherited in a mirror;

    (CLV) Ja 1:24
    for he considers himself and has come away, and immediately forgot~ what kind he was.

    (CLV) Ja 1:25
    Now he who peers into the perfect law, that of freedom, and abides, not becoming a forgetful listener, but a doer of the work, this one will be happy in his doing.

    (CLV) Ro 2:13
    For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.
     
  11. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I mispell words and have terrible typing due to chronic arthritis. YOu mishandle the meaning of words and phrases . I will gladly take my problem over yours!
     
  12. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well Hark- those commands were for Israel! Jesus was building the church which was a brand new thing! And as Jesus is God He can do those kind of things. The church is not Israel and Israel is not the Church, the old covenant was broken and passed away as Hebrews says and a new covenant has been put into effect! So Jesus gave a new command.

    Just like Torah says eye for eye- Jesus said, if they smite you on the left cheek- give them your right!

    Torah is perfect, but not for the church.

    The church has no special day as Sabbath! we live in Sabbath now! we do not have the Torah prohibition of not wearing mixed fabric clothing! I could go on and on!
     
  13. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    That's not what you said before. Would you care to point out what words I mishandled the meanings of in that post?
     
  14. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    YHWH's new covenant is with Israel. Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.

    No it wasn't a new thing. YHWH had been building his ecclesia, probably before Moses.

    He can't rebel against his Father's word. That would be sin.

    Yes it is.

    (CLV) Ac 7:37
    This is the Moses who says to the sons of Israel: A Prophet will God be raising up to you from among your brethren, as me.

    (CLV) Ac 7:38
    This is he who came to be in the ecclesia in the wilderness with the messenger, who speaks to him in mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who receives the living oracles to give to you,

    And?

    Wrong. See post #1.

    Oh. Didn't mercy and patience and love exist before Yahshua?

    Again:

    (CLV) Ac 7:37
    This is the Moses who says to the sons of Israel: A Prophet will God be raising up to you from among your brethren, as me.

    (CLV) Ac 7:38
    This is he who came to be in the ecclesia in the wilderness with the messenger, who speaks to him in mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who receives the living oracles to give to you,

    Yes it does.

    It's called Shabbat.

    Exodus 31:16 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

    16 The people of Isra’el are to keep the Shabbat, to observe Shabbat through all their generations as a perpetual covenant.

    Wrong. See Leviticus 23.

    Who told you that?

    It's in there.
     
  15. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Until lthe leaders committed the unpardonable sin. Then the kingdom offer was removed until a future generation that will accept it!

    Yes the New covenant is specifically for Israel as I have written many times to many people, but Gentiles are partakers of that covenant and its blessings!

    Here is a typical example of you mishandloing the Scriptures.

    Here is what Yahweh said

    Matthew 16:17-19 King James Version (KJV)
    17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Future tense. Yahweh did not say " I have been building" or "I will keep building". The truth is learned by paying attention to what is said!

    He is not rebelling! He is giving a new command! As the old covenant is about to be fulfilled and pass away, Jesus is giving commands to live in the new covenant!

    ekklesia is a generic term that means a gathering! The church, a colloquial term, as the Body of Christ was not born until Pentecost. Even John the Baptist acknowledged this mystery when He said He was just a friend of the bridegroom and not part of the bride! Jesus also acknowledged this when He said that the least in the kingdom is greater than John.
     
  16. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They did but you are equating teh Laws God gave for Israel as a theocratic nation to govern itself as Gods people with the commands God has given to the church! The Mosaic Covenant (torah) has been completely fulfilled and is passed away and replaced by the new!

    That was written to Israel and to the proselytes. Teh Body of Christ has entered into Sabbath rest for eternity. We may rest on any day we wish or not rest! YOu will not find one passage in the epistles where gentiles are commanded to keep Sabbath!

    All scriptures are equally inspired, but not all Scriputres are equally applicable!

    Yes it is in there. do you wear any item of clothing with mixed fabrics? did you check your socks? Underwear? YOu break one, you break all 613- that makes you quite the sinner!

    But as the Body of Christ is the Loammi that has become Ruammi, we are not under the Mosaic Covenant which has passed away and has been replaced by the New Covenant!
     
  17. sparow

    sparow Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is not new, it has always been that way.
     
  18. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No! The law was more concerned with the ourtward actions.

    Jesus would constantly say "But I say" That is the clue He was introducing something brand new and beyond the law.

    Like simply looking upon a woman with lust is adultery! That was never said in the Mosaic Law!
     
  19. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God has always been concerned with the heart...

    Deuteronomy 10:6
    1 Samuel 16:7
    the Greek word used where we see “but” is also translated as “and” and “moreover”.

    Messiah was not teaching against the law, he was expounding upon it, thus it would be more accurate to say “moreover” rather than “but”. We know this because if we look at the context of his teaching, he is clarifying and fully preaching the law, not opposing the law with his teaching.

    Matthew 5:27-28
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  20. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Your argument is bankrupt if all you can do is kvetch about someone's typos.
    As someone else has already commented. I learned to type by taking a night class in Germany the year President Kennedy was assassinated and my fingers often do not do what I want them to and I miss some of my typos. But if that is what you want to do in lieu of a cogent response. Go for it.
     
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