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Featured No Graven Images...

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Carl Emerson, Jun 1, 2019.

  1. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Dear friends,

    The second commandment requires some interpretation.

    Ex 20:3 You shall have no other gods before Me. 4 You shall not make for yourself an idol of any kind, or an image of anything in the heavens above, the earth below, or the waters under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,…

    But during the construction of the Ark of Covenant - craftsmen were required to make images of the Cherabim.
    1 Kings 6:23 In the inner sanctuary he made two cherubim, each ten cubits high, out of olive wood. 24One wing of the first cherub was five cubits long, and the other wing was five cubits long as well. So the full wingspan was ten cubits.…

    And here, Moses is instructed to make a graven image...
    Numb 21:8 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Make a snake and mount it on a pole. When anyone who is bitten looks at it, he will live.” 9So Moses made a bronze snake and mounted it on a pole. If anyone who was bitten looked at the bronze serpent, he would recover.

    So the question remains - what is the second commandment referring to?

    If the issue was the worship of God alone and not just referring to making images, then does that open the commandment to idols of fleshly passion in our lives?

    How about objects of worship in our churches - crosses, saints, crucifixes, Mary...

    Let's try and have a civil discussion about this...
     
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  2. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

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    Do we think that God would've been okay with painted or drawn images simply because He only referred to graven ones? This simple question sinks the claims of iconoclasts. The Lord didn't mean for this sentence to be understood on its own- He connected it to a prohibition against serving any "god" but Him.

    So, graven images? Perfectly fine. Bowing down and worshipping? Also good. Worshipping the images (or other gods)? Not kosher.
     
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  3. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Well-Known Member

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    In cases that God instructed them to make an image in the Scripture, it is okay because it's God's command.

    (I can't say the same regarding private revelations where people claim Jesus told them to make an image of Himself).

    But I don't think people bowed down to the cherubs or worshipped the bronze snake in the Bible.
     
  4. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

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    It's always okay to make an image because simple carving isn't what God was prohibiting. You said it yourself- no one was worshipping the snake or Ark. You acknowledge a connection between the two commands.
     
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  5. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Well-Known Member

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    I didn't argue it's okay to always make an image, and it is not necessary for you to convince me of that. If that is what you believe, then I respect that. But please refrain from imposing it on me
     
  6. Lost4words

    Lost4words In reality, an old dog! Supporter

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    Nobody i know of in the Catholic church worships, crucifixes, statues, saints or Mary. If anybody thinks otherwise, then it proves they dont know or understand Catholicism.

    I am betting this turns out to be yet another Catholic bashing thread!
     
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  7. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Catechumen

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    They hated him because he told them the truth.
     
  8. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    How about any image that usurps devotion that would otherwise be given to God? This can even be erected in our mind that our heart devotes itself to.
    "You shall have no other gods before Me." this speaks of any thing coming before God, not just physical idols. One of the Reformers rightly said 'our hearts are an idol factory'.
    Bonus question. Do the images on our TVs and computer screens fall under the 1st Commandment?
     
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  9. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    Betting again? tsk tsk. lol
     
  10. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    "[Hezekiah] removed the high places and broke the sacred pillars, cut down the wooden image and broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made; for until those days the children of Israel burned incense to it, and called it Nehushtan." 2 Kings 18:4 NKJV
     
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  11. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
     
  12. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    Michael Card has a song about the bronze serpent.
    Lift Up the Suffering Symbol
     
  13. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    Those items are not "objects of worship". At least, not in the sense that they are worshiped. Anybody who does that is on very thin ice indeed. They may facilitate worship of God though, which is perhaps what you intended to say.
     
  14. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    The pairs of cherubim I think are highly instructive. Since they were at both ends facing each other, they both led the eye toward the middle, toward the mercy seat, which symbolized the throne of God. But there was no graven image of God himself, because he is unseen.
     
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  15. ChicanaRose

    ChicanaRose Well-Known Member

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    What about people who bow down to Mary statues?
     
  16. Garlic Magnet

    Garlic Magnet Augsburg Catholic

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    Friendly reminder that Roman Catholics, Old Catholics, and Lutherans number the Decalogue in a different manner than Protestants, Jews, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox. We take after the manner of St. Augustine who took the second commandment to be, "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God."
     
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  17. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    What about them?
     
  18. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    .
     
  19. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    .
     
  20. Lost4words

    Lost4words In reality, an old dog! Supporter

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    What about people who bow down to their Bibles?

    What about people who bow down to their beds when kneeling by them to pray?

    Out of here......I knew it would become a Catholic bashing thread :doh:
     
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