No English Version of the Bible Is Reliable

[abbayabba]

Maybe, but it is exhausting seeing numerous people come onto this site to tell us how we're all reading whatever version of the Bible in the "wrong" translation, whatever that translation may be. Don't you think that's having a bit of a condescending attitude as well? I think, so long as we are reading the Bible and trying to get a grasp on its meaning and actually focusing on Christ, who are we to judge if and what translation it is?

Okay. I really empathize with how you're feeling. I bet I came off to you as holier than thou initially and then condemned you for sarcasm, making it worse? Those weren't my intentions. I didn't want to judge you for reading a translation; I just wanted to question whether that translation was the entire truth or not. Sure, I'd say a good number of Bible translations give you a good idea of the truth, but is it the entire truth? Did later scribes remove things because it offended them, the little things? My goal is not to be a Pharisee but just to diligently seek God.

I ask God questions everyday and wait and listen. I hear sometimes, but most of the time it's demons interrupting with noise. So now I must go to The Word because God can speak through there, but what if bits and pieces are removed? I just want people to consider how important these pieces might have been.

I have no hard feelings toward the man who told me the Word of God was like a fence, God loves him and I do too, but God has revealed to me that The Word is the foundation of a home rather than a fence. A foundation can not stand if there are cracks where The Word should be.

Do you know that entire books are referred to in the Bible that are completely removed? Like The Book of the Prophet Iddo the Seer. Now, that can not be found in some other context. It most likely is burned and gone forever, but at the hands of some corrupt leader? Will that be more books in the future? And what did that prophet have to say that others didn't express?

Just some food for thought. Also, I'm bolding for readers who skim, not to yell.

 

[Radagast]

Did later scribes remove things because it offended them, the little things?

No. We have very old manuscripts, so we can tell. One possible exception is the "woman caught in adultery" story. It's missing from some manuscripts -- it seems that it was removed by some people because it offended them. But people kept putting it back.

But basically, with a good modern translation (like the ESV) you are on very safe ground.

Do you know that entire books are referred to in the Bible that are completely removed? Like The Book of the Prophet Iddo the Seer.

That was never in anybody's Bible. God clearly did not want us to have it.

 

[Radagast]

I ask God questions everyday and wait and listen. I hear sometimes, but most of the time it's demons interrupting with noise.

OK, that's a worry.

You should talk to both a pastor and a doctor about that.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

you do understand that reliable and flawless are two different things right?

 

[Dave G.]

Abbayabba, if a scripture is missing in your translation God will find another, or even another means of getting you what you need to know. Meanwhile discover Bible Gateway ( online) where there are more translations than you can read in a day. Stick with your one bible in the organic form but go online and search other translations as well, to be sure you "get it". Also back track to the Greek or Hebrew . You could also look into something like this that will have the words in Greek and Hebrew or look it up online as well;

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Maybe... your response to this thread is, "No, the King James Version is reliable." If so, can I entertain with you the idea, or rather the fact, that King James was a freemason who inverted scripture and made The Word contradict itself?

Isaiah 33:6 in the Hebrew Bible
And He (Yahweh, the LORD) will be the stability of your times, a wealth of salvation, wisdom and knowledge; The fear of Yahweh is his treasure.

KJV Isaiah 33:6
And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD is his treasure.

Here's a video to shorten up what I would have typed.

I've searched up almost every translation that I've read of in blogs; these translations were documented as reliable. Every translation fails the test of that YT video above. For example, it will say something like "God tempted" instead of "God tested." Each (English) translation has one of these "errors". Prove me wrong?

I really think it's funny how the NIV will correct an "error" in the King James Version--error is quoted due to the writer's intention to place it-- while subsequently taking "Jesus" and "hell" out of a few dozen verses. It all kind of reminds me of a dystopia. When you're an English speaking Christian in these times; it's almost impossible to get the truth. The ENTIRE truth.

BTW, for all of my friends who think much older Bibles are 100% true (I was one of them), I checked the 1599 Geneva Bible and it has a mistake too.

10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room, that when he that bade thee, cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, sit up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at table with thee. (GNV)

Read it in greek then, problem solved

 

[Sam91]

I do not think it an accident that Moses could not lead the children of Israel into the promised land so that was left to Joshua.

Great part of your post!!

 

[abbayabba]

OK, that's a worry.

You should talk to both a pastor and a doctor about that.

Have you ever heard God speak? Have you watched any testimonies online by Christians who have? Do you believe your own Bible when God is recorded speaking to prophets? He didn't just stop talking. He still speaks, and it's not a mental condition, especially when you're taught new information your brain could not produce.

 

[abbayabba]

you do understand that reliable and flawless are two different things right?

I guess. Some flaws are just purposeful.

 

[Hieronymus]

Have you ever heard God speak?

No. Or maybe once, but could have been my own thought.

Have you watched any testimonies online by Christians who have?

Yeah, many of them are ambiguous at best...

Do you believe your own Bible when God is recorded speaking to prophets?

Of course. That was necessary for getting the Word across.

He didn't just stop talking. He still speaks, and it's not a mental condition, especially when you're taught new information your brain could not produce.

Be careful here.
There are many more beings out there in the unseen realm other than God and God's messengers.
Many religions are based on communications with the supernatural.
In fact, when God divided the people in Babel, the people were divided among the gods Deuteronomy 32:8-9 (sons of God).
Read Psalms 82 to see how God thinks they did their jobs..

 

[abbayabba]

.Be careful here.
There are many more beings out there in the unseen realm other than God and God's messengers.
Many religions are based on communications with the supernatural.
In fact, when God divided the people in Babel, the people were divided among the gods (sons of God).
Read Psalms 82 to see how God thinks they did their jobs..

So you still believe that God and demons communicate with humans? Sure then, I am cautious and will be even more so in the future on this search for God. Typically, when demons speak it is very obvious, but I do pray to God for more discernment.

Also, not that you're wrong, but why are people so eager to grab the first Bible thrown at them (easily changeable and re-published) and passively insult me when I challenge the accuracy of one of the favorites, but are suddenly super cautious and nervous when God is mentioned audibly speaking to human beings? Shouldn't we be consistent since both concern God and are important?

 

[Hieronymus]

So you still believe that God and demons communicate with humans? Sure then, I am cautious and will be even more so in the future on this search for God. Typically, when demons speak it is very obvious,

Or very deceptive...

but I do pray to God for more discernment.

Me too.
Can't have enough discernment on this crazy planet...

Also, not that you're wrong, but why are people so eager to grab the first Bible thrown at them (easily changeable and re-published) and passively insult me when I challenge the accuracy of one of the favorites, but are suddenly super cautious and nervous when God is mentioned audibly speaking to human beings?

Well, the Bible says the same thing for 2000 years now.
In those 2000 years there have been quite a few "prophets" who claimed to have heard things from God, but fail the test miserably.

Shouldn't we be consistent since both concern God and are important?

Yeah, i get your point.
It would be a shame to dismiss everything, including things that actually came from God.
Personally i choose to be on the safe side, and wait and see if 'new prophecies' came to pass before concluding someone is a prophet / has actually heard from God.
There is this guy who prophesied (got word from God) Trump would be POTUS some years ago.
But he also said some pretty daft things...
I'm usually sceptical about modern day miracles claimed to be coming from God.
Maybe too sceptical..

 

[abbayabba]

Or very deceptive...Me too.
Can't have enough discernment on this crazy planet...Well, the Bible says the same thing for 2000 years now.
In those 2000 years there have been quite a few "prophets" who claimed to have heard things from God, but fail the test miserably.Yeah, i get your point.
It would be a shame to dismiss everything, including things that actually came from God.
Personally i choose to be on the safe side, and wait and see if 'new prophecies' came to pass before concluding someone is a prophet / has actually heard from God.
There is this guy who prophesied (got word from God) Trump would be POTUS some years ago.
But he also said some pretty daft things...
I'm usually sceptical about modern day miracles claimed to be coming from God.
Maybe too sceptical..

Yeah. You really can't have enough discernment these days. I also saw a guy prophesize a few years ago that football would cause racial division, and that, too, came to pass i.e. men taking knees and people becoming angry from that and creating biases. So I do think that some modern prophets really do hear from God, but demons interfere and give other prophecies that are in fact deceitful.

When you said "or very deceptive", I actually agree. I take my comment back about them being very predictable. They're only predictable when they want to be. And thank you for considering my point.

I can understand your skepticism with these modern day miracles. There are so many con-artists publicizing themselves as Christians. It makes one doubtful of someone who really did hear God, another trick from the devil. This made me wonder, if Satan can lie to millions of Christians on air (public television), what's stopping him from lying through our Bibles. Then I did research on King James. The point isn't that I'm 100% right and you should throw away your KJV and everything succeeding it, but maybe we should be cautious about this plethora of new Bible translations. The parent company of the NIV, the 2nd most popular Bible after the KJV, published the Satanic Bible, so it's already starting, or did it start already? Basically why I started this thread.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

Maybe... your response to this thread is, "No, the King James Version is reliable." If so, can I entertain with you the idea, or rather the fact, that King James was a freemason who inverted scripture and made The Word contradict itself?

Isaiah 33:6 in the Hebrew Bible
And He (Yahweh, the LORD) will be the stability of your times, a wealth of salvation, wisdom and knowledge; The fear of Yahweh is his treasure.

KJV Isaiah 33:6
And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD is his treasure.

Here's a video to shorten up what I would have typed.

I've searched up almost every translation that I've read of in blogs; these translations were documented as reliable. Every translation fails the test of that YT video above. For example, it will say something like "God tempted" instead of "God tested." Each (English) translation has one of these "errors". Prove me wrong?

I really think it's funny how the NIV will correct an "error" in the King James Version--error is quoted due to the writer's intention to place it-- while subsequently taking "Jesus" and "hell" out of a few dozen verses. It all kind of reminds me of a dystopia. When you're an English speaking Christian in these times; it's almost impossible to get the truth. The ENTIRE truth.

BTW, for all of my friends who think much older Bibles are 100% true (I was one of them), I checked the 1599 Geneva Bible and it has a mistake too.

10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room, that when he that bade thee, cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, sit up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at table with thee. (GNV)

It is because of how Hebrew is translated into English. English has a different sentence structure and therefore, certain liberties are taken during translating to form complete sentences for grammar. But for the breakdown of the verse word by word, forming your own "English sentence", the KJV isn't far off.

◄ Isaiah 33:6 ►
Text Analysis
Str Translit Hebrew English Morph
1961 [e] wə-hā-yāh וְהָיָה֙ and shall be Verb
530 [e] ’ĕ-mū-naṯ אֱמוּנַ֣ת the stability Noun
6256 [e] ‘it-te-ḵā, עִתֶּ֔יךָ of your times Noun
2633 [e] ḥō-sen חֹ֥סֶן strength Noun
3444 [e] yə-šū-‘ōṯ יְשׁוּעֹ֖ת of salvation Noun
2451 [e] ḥā-ḵə-maṯ חָכְמַ֣ת wisdom Noun
1847 [e] wā-ḏā-‘aṯ; וָדָ֑עַת and knowledge Noun
3374 [e] yir-’aṯ יִרְאַ֥ת the fear Noun
3068 [e] Yah-weh יְהוָ֖ה of the LORD Noun
1931 [e] hî הִ֥יא he Pro
214 [e] ’ō-w-ṣā-rōw. אוֹצָרֽוֹ׃ [is] his treasure Noun
s ס -

Not sure which "Hebrew Bible" you read or if you are just trolling YouTube for Biblical stuff to argue about but above is the Hebrew and
it (actual resources) doesn't match what you initially posted. Do your homework.
I used Biblehub.com
It has 25 different translations of the Christian Bible. It has Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Greek, and Hebrew Lexicons, Interlinear for side by side reading of the actual text, commentaries from a plethora of scholars and theologians, devotionals, sermons, and other languages if need be.

And another thing you are not mentioning is in the King James Version LORD is substituted for instances of Adonai, Yahweh, Elohim, Jehovah as these are his name. In Hebrew it is represented with no vowels. YHWH. JHVH. It is known as the tetragrammaton. In practice they used to not utter his name out loud. Hence the substitution so that you can read it. It also emphasizes the fact that though the Lord God has multiple characteristics, he is one and has always been one throughout the ages. We know him today as Jesus Christ.
KJV still the most reliable English version. Even more so than some modern Hebrew Bibles. Some early editions of the Hebrew Bible actually contained anti-Christian commentaries and other addendums. So there is definitely an animosity somewhere in the past that had appeared that will skew your perspective if you want to find it.

In regards to the verse above, recall Proverbs 1:9, Job 28:28, Psalms 111:10. They all say the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, knowledge of God, departing from evil, that's understanding. The wisdom and knowledge come from God!!! Not sure the fallacy.
The Pharisees in Jesus' day would do the same thing and argue a word or seek some error somehow so that they could bring an accusation against him. Jesus warns us, beware the leaven of the Pharisees. The essence still remains. The truth still speaks. The devil prowls about seeking those whom he will devour, or destroy.
Is your intent of the thread to further the kingdom of God or to cast doubt on the Word itself?

 

[NeedyFollower]

Or very deceptive...Me too.
Can't have enough discernment on this crazy planet...Well, the Bible says the same thing for 2000 years now.
In those 2000 years there have been quite a few "prophets" who claimed to have heard things from God, but fail the test miserably.Yeah, i get your point.
It would be a shame to dismiss everything, including things that actually came from God.
Personally i choose to be on the safe side, and wait and see if 'new prophecies' came to pass before concluding someone is a prophet / has actually heard from God.
There is this guy who prophesied (got word from God) Trump would be POTUS some years ago.
But he also said some pretty daft things...
I'm usually sceptical about modern day miracles claimed to be coming from God.
Maybe too sceptical..

Hi Brother ..Can't have enough discernment on this crazy planet is well said . It is a time for discernment and seeking or otherwise God will send us a strong delusion for we have not a love for the TRUTH . Regarding prophecies ....in my understanding the original greek word for prophecy was more along the lines of understanding the will and workings of God ...interpreting the current circumstances and what they mean for the future ...a "spiritual analyst" if you will . I think of Noah as looking around , knowing God and being moved by fear , building an ark . Noah knew ( by the Spirit of God ) what was coming . Also , Abel by faith offered an acceptable sacrifice knowing in his spirit that it would foreshadow a blood sacrifice . Jeremiah knew the wickedness and knew it was a matter of time . Was Jonah a false prophet ? No because by the people repented by the decree of the King. The problem of a democracy is that no one will repent at the command of a president . I think all of us potentially have the spirit of prophecy even using the KJV or other versions of the bible. God gives grace to the humble but opposes the proud. Pride comes before destruction . Look at the Babylon the great in revelation. All the nations and merchants of the earth mourned her destruction ..she was the marketplace of the world and pretty much did what Nineveh did in Nahum ...she multiplied her merchants as the number of stars in heaven . A self-righteous nation never sees itself as ungodly until destruction . Happened to Jerusalem many times ( and they were the natural branch ) And is God a respecter of people ? I can't see how the US is not marked for destruction .

 

[NeedyFollower]

Great part of your post!!

Yes ..I am thankful for that as well . It was like a "Rosetta Stone " for me in many ways. Had I not had a old KJV bible , I would have never seen it but God is unquestionably in charge of everything ..even mis-translations . It also made me aware of the danger of " being saved by faith in a translation " rather than the living Word of God , Jesus Christ . BTW ..I see you are in the UK ...I understand there are many muslims in that country now . Have you ever asked someone that when Mohammed mentioned the "people of the book" , which book that referred to since the Koran was not a book . Why should Mohammed be familiar with the book and not Muslims ? Just curious if you ever have opportunity to discuss "the shadows " of Christ in the Book ? May God grant you spiritual fruit through His Son Jesus Christ .

 

[Sam91]

Yes ..I am thankful for that as well . It was like a "Rosetta Stone " for me in many ways. Had I not had a old KJV bible , I would have never seen it but God is unquestionably in charge of everything ..even mis-translations . It also made me aware of the danger of " being saved by faith in a translation " rather than the living Word of God , Jesus Christ . BTW ..I see you are in the UK ...I understand there are many muslims in that country now . Have you ever asked someone that when Mohammed mentioned the "people of the book" , which book that referred to since the Koran was not a book . Why should Mohammed be familiar with the book and not Muslims ? Just curious if you ever have opportunity to discuss "the shadows " of Christ in the Book ? May God grant you spiritual fruit through His Son Jesus Christ .

I think it depends where you live

 

[abbayabba]

Check the ESV footnote: "Some manuscripts add verse 11: For the Son of Man came to save the lost."

That verse does not exist in the Greek (I checked!), except for a small number of manuscripts. It can, however, be found at Luke 19:10 (in both the Greek and the ESV).



Similar story. The ESV footnote says: "Some manuscripts add verse 26: But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father who is in heaven forgive your trespasses."

It's not in the Greek (at least not in any of the oldest manuscripts). It can, however, be found at Matthew 6:15 (in both the Greek and the ESV).

And I'm struggling to understand your point of view. If English translations are unreliable according to you, and the original Greek is unreliable according to you, what is reliable according to you?



No insult was intended. But in my experience, 99% of YouTube videos are false. There are more reliable sources of information, like good books. That's what I spend my time on.

Okay. I'll read the ESV.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

Okay. I really empathize with how you're feeling. I bet I came off to you as holier than thou initially and then condemned you for sarcasm, making it worse? Those weren't my intentions. I didn't want to judge you for reading a translation; I just wanted to question whether that translation was the entire truth or not. Sure, I'd say a good number of Bible translations give you a good idea of the truth, but is it the entire truth? Did later scribes remove things because it offended them, the little things? My goal is not to be a Pharisee but just to diligently seek God.

I ask God questions everyday and wait and listen. I hear sometimes, but most of the time it's demons interrupting with noise. So now I must go to The Word because God can speak through there, but what if bits and pieces are removed? I just want people to consider how important these pieces might have been.

I have no hard feelings toward the man who told me the Word of God was like a fence, God loves him and I do too, but God has revealed to me that The Word is the foundation of a home rather than a fence. A foundation can not stand if there are cracks where The Word should be.

Do you know that entire books are referred to in the Bible that are completely removed? Like The Book of the Prophet Iddo the Seer. Now, that can not be found in some other context. It most likely is burned and gone forever, but at the hands of some corrupt leader? Will that be more books in the future? And what did that prophet have to say that others didn't express?

Just some food for thought. Also, I'm bolding for readers who skim, not to yell.

In addressing the books portion of your reply, I have found a lot of times these "lost books" are incorporated into the books of the Bible.
For example in 2 Chronicles 9:29 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat?
it speaks of :
Nathan the prophet whose name appears 41 times in Scriptures, most instances belonging to this individual (2 Samuel particularly)
Ahijah the Shilonite whose name appears about 22 times most belonging to him, particularly in 1 Kings.
And of course Iddo the seer, whose name appears at least 11 times 2 chronicles specifically.

Keep in mind David as a King would have had scribes who wrote for him. People who chronicled the events of David, Solomon, Rehoboam, etc. just as is portrayed in the verses associated with these men and their "lost books" associated with them.
As I was getting at though, they are incorporated into other books. Thus Chronicles would technically have different "areas" of emphasis depending on who you were reading about. Likely a different author writing at the different times, but included in the same records nonetheless as it was the royal records.

 

[Kaon]

Maybe... your response to this thread is, "No, the King James Version is reliable." If so, can I entertain with you the idea, or rather the fact, that King James was a freemason who inverted scripture and made The Word contradict itself?

Isaiah 33:6 in the Hebrew Bible
And He (Yahweh, the LORD) will be the stability of your times, a wealth of salvation, wisdom and knowledge; The fear of Yahweh is his treasure.

KJV Isaiah 33:6
And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, and strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD is his treasure.

Here's a video to shorten up what I would have typed.

I've searched up almost every translation that I've read of in blogs; these translations were documented as reliable. Every translation fails the test of that YT video above. For example, it will say something like "God tempted" instead of "God tested." Each (English) translation has one of these "errors". Prove me wrong?

I really think it's funny how the NIV will correct an "error" in the King James Version--error is quoted due to the writer's intention to place it-- while subsequently taking "Jesus" and "hell" out of a few dozen verses. It all kind of reminds me of a dystopia. When you're an English speaking Christian in these times; it's almost impossible to get the truth. The ENTIRE truth.

BTW, for all of my friends who think much older Bibles are 100% true (I was one of them), I checked the 1599 Geneva Bible and it has a mistake too.

10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room, that when he that bade thee, cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, sit up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at table with thee. (GNV)

The canon is decent enough for learning about where to start receiving the Word of God. However, it is not the Word of God.

Christ is the Word of God. He is living. The New Covenant guarantees that each of us will have the Word of God written on our hearts so that we don't have to ask our neighbour if they 'know the TRUTH.'

If you are using a canon as your primary source for the Word of God, then you may be missing out. Our Father is our Father; we should speak to Him like we would earthly parents - not with fear, and chanting.

The Hebrews started as an oral people for a reason, and the heart is what God seeks first, as opposed to mechanical observance from a text or ritual (pharisees.) This means you must be ready to accept that the instruments used to spread the Gospel may not all be sincere and good.

We were told several times to test ALL fruits on a spiritual level.