No deal BREXIT looms

[mindlight]

 

[Lost4words]

Theresa May mentioned three options last night. This deal, no deal or no brexit. No Brexit isn't even being left on the table even though polls suggest 55% of people want another referendum, and 54% would vote remain.
Majority of Brits now against Brexit and back second EU referendum - Sky Data poll

No deal is better than getting tied down and dictated to by the EU

 

[Nithavela]

No deal is better than getting tied down and dictated to by the EU

Why?

 

[Lost4words]

Why?

Deal with EU means being tied into 'their' rules.

 

[Nithavela]

Deal with EU means being tied into 'their' rules.

Who is "they"?

 

[Lost4words]

Who is "they"?

Look into it brother

 

[Nithavela]

Look into it brother

Okay, I just looked, appears that "they" are the elected officials of all member countries, which include officials from the UK, at least for the next few months.

 

[Tanj]

Obviously a no deal BREXIT is not ideal but it will represent a clean break from European control and a genuine fresh start for the UK.

Carpet bombing with nukes would also represent a clean break and genuine fresh start.

What do you think are the implications of a no deal BREXIT. Is there a realistic alternative in the circumstances?

The Uk is going to suffer mightily. On the bight side, I predict the pound reaching parity with the Australian dollar, so good time for a holiday.

 

[Francis Drake]

Personally I think Brexit is a terrible idea and should be scrapped. That is the realistic alternative in the face of all the lies the public were told by the leave campaign.

Brexit is a wonderful idea, a breath of fresh air for the nation.
The majority of lies came out from the Remain camp, especially the government with their grossly dishonest project fear.

This Brexit deal also ignores that the UK is supposed to be a family of countries, each one valued. Yet, Scotland voted remain by 63% and our wishes have been consistently ignored by the PM.

Yes, a family which took a majority decision which you obviously lost, so stop whining.

As the First Minister said, "In these circumstances it is more important than ever that we are not faced with a false choice between a bad deal and no deal, no one should be effectively blackmailed into a choice between the frying pan or the fire. This proposed deal would be a bad one for Scotland, taking us out of a single market eight times the size of the UK market alone and posing a huge threat to jobs, investment and living standards.

The EU might be the biggest marketplace, but in terms of value, it represents the least relevant trading area for Scotland. That is apart from somewhere for the SNP to yell and scream about to its uninformed voters.
"Scotland still conducts the majority of its trade within the UK: in 2014, Scotland's exports totalled £76 billion, of which £48.5 billion (64%) was with constituent nations of the UK, £11.6 billion with the rest of the European Union (EU), and £15.2 billion with other parts of the world".

If this deal is indeed rejected by Parliament then the UK government must return to the negotiating table to secure a better one. Our bottom line - short of continued EU membership - is continued, permanent membership of the single market and customs union."

I pray all the negotiations fail which results in a hard Brexit and a return to an independent UK. Britain gets its sovereignty back and diktat from the unelected bureaucracy of Brussels comes to an end.

If it comes up, and I think it will, I will be voting yes to an independent Scotland within the EU.

By no stretch of the imagination will a vote for an independent Scotland under the SNP ever bring you an Independent Scotland, given that the SNP want to take Scotland even deeper into enslavement to the EU. It will eventually turn Scotland into Greece or Italy, having a leader imposed on it.​

But you are an absurd lot north of the border. You hate the Westminster government, in which Scotland has a disproportionally large control, and are yet determined to be ruled by unelected foreigners across the water.
Bizarre!

 

[Francis Drake]

We voted to remain in the EU by 63%, we don't want to leave the EU.

What planet were you on when we had the referendum? We voted to leave, or didn't you hear?

As for the Tories - in many ways that doesn't matter. We get 59 seats at Westminster out of 650. It doesn't matter how Scotland votes, England dominates anyway. The composition of the Westminster parliament merely reflects English votes. The odds that Scottish votes would affect who is in power there is slim to none.

As I said before, the SNP has a massively disproportionate influence on Westminster.
The following data is from the Electoral Commission website.-
SNP got 1,454,436 votes and 56 seats.
Libdems got 2,415,916 votes and 8 seats
UKIP got 3,881,099 votes, and 1 seat.
So UKIP got more votes than the SNP and LibDems added together, and got 1 seat, as against the LibDems and SNPs joint 64 seats.
That is the unbalanced voting system we have in the UK. Scotland having far more seats and more influence on Parliament than its population deserves.
So stop whining.
And FYI, SNP has no intention of giving you independence. They want to take Scotland into a deeper membership of the EU. That means more control from Brussels and less from Holyrood.
The purpose of the EU is to make it a complete nation state complete with its own army. Scotland will be far more servile to unelected foreign bureaucrats than it ever has been to London.

 

[Francis Drake]

Okay, I just looked, appears that "they" are the elected officials of all member countries, which include officials from the UK, at least for the next few months.

The "elected" officials of the EU, ie. MEPs are toothless and have no power to initiate legislation. They are no more than window dressing to give the appearance of democracy.

The right to initiate legislation lays in the hands of the unelected officials of the European Commission. The Commission is little more than a bureaucratic dictatorship, and utterly anti democratic.

Britain was taken into the original Common Market by deliberate deception. Parliament was deliberately deceived by Ted Heath, the Tory Prime Minister at the time. Our membership of the EU has been maintained by perpetual deception.

Joining the EU removed sovereign power from the UK Parliament and transferred it to a foreign power. That is the definition of treason, for which Ted Heath should have been hanged.

I thank God we are finally leaving such an abominable institution.

 

[Nithavela]

The "elected" officials of the EU, ie. MEPs are toothless and have no power to initiate legislation. They are no more than window dressing to give the appearance of democracy.

The right to initiate legislation lays in the hands of the unelected officials of the European Commission. The Commission is little more than a bureaucratic dictatorship, and utterly anti democratic.

Britain was taken into the original Common Market by deliberate deception. Parliament was deliberately deceived by Ted Heath, the Tory Prime Minister at the time. Our membership of the EU has been maintained by perpetual deception.

Joining the EU removed sovereign power from the UK Parliament and transferred it to a foreign power. That is the definition of treason, for which Ted Heath should have been hanged.

I thank God we are finally leaving such an abominable institution.

I hope it works out for you, though I am not optimistic.

 

[mindlight]

This is true - almost every leaflet and campaign for Better Together (the remain in the UK campaign) in Scotland centred on just a few points, but a major deal was made out of our status in the EU. The argument (made by Westminster and some businesses) was that if we voted for independence, we would be on our own outside the UK and the EU. That "swung" it for many voters who voted against independence to remain in the EU. Look where that got us! After the referendum in 2014 it emerged that the EU had plans to "fast-track" Scotland into the EU so it wouldn't have been a big deal after all, which is what Yes Scotland (the pro-independence campaign) had predicted.

Now, 4 years on we are in a UK that ignores our voice, and will soon be outside Europe. :-(

Actually the biggest factors were viability and currency. Scottish independence simply did not cost out regardless of Europe and they did not want to leave the pound. Scotlands main market is the UK and it has a globally competitive export industry in things like Whiskey.

 

[mindlight]

We voted to remain in the EU by 63%, we don't want to leave the EU.

As for the Tories - in many ways that doesn't matter. We get 59 seats at Westminster out of 650. It doesn't matter how Scotland votes, England dominates anyway. The composition of the Westminster parliament merely reflects English votes. The odds that Scottish votes would affect who is in power there is slim to none.

Scottish influence in Westminster has been disproportionate to its size since James I. Given the size of your population (5.4m) relative to the UK (66.7m) you should only have a total of 53 MPs so you have 6 too many as it is. I would not mind this but in recent years you have been consistently leftwing.

 

[mindlight]

Better for no deal than to be stuck in a very bad, one sided deal!

This echoes Corbyns words but this is also one of the reasons he is not fit to govern. He does not stand a chance of forcing his own vision of remaining in the single market through cause the negotiation process is finished and because it was always tied to freedom of movement which the British people have rejected. So the real choice here, the hard choice is to accept the deal on the table as an alternative to simply crashing out of Europe with no deal. He will not do that cause he has some kind of idealistic fantasy of bringing down the government and sticking it to the man (or woman as in this case). As a result he has put his own ambitions before the national interest.

I think it will be hard BREXIT for the simple reason that I cannot see the Westminster lot agreeing about anything anytime soon. There is not an alternative to this deal and no time to formulate another one in the time frame. So we need to start planning for hard BREXIT now.

 

[mindlight]

Carpet bombing with nukes would also represent a clean break and genuine fresh start.

That sounds very B-52 ish. The UK does not have that kind of delivery system . It is all Trident these days.

The Uk is going to suffer mightily. On the bight side, I predict the pound reaching parity with the Australian dollar, so good time for a holiday.

It will work out, but it would have been better to stay in Europe. It is a selfish decision taken for all sorts of dubious reasons but in essence reflecting the nature of a country that has always been an island and always resented being controlled by foreign powers. But in the next few years the UK may well be a very affordable tourist destination

 

[mindlight]

I pray all the negotiations fail which results in a hard Brexit and a return to an independent UK. Britain gets its sovereignty back and diktat from the unelected bureaucracy of Brussels comes to an end.

Mr Rees Mogs vote of no confidence is unlikely to pass at a time when the alternative to May is lacking and the alternative across the aisle is Corbyn. So she will probably win that one.

Britain that does a hard BREXIT will have a massive short term hit as we import most of our stuff from Europe and indeed it is cheaper to do it that way. I am not sure the port infrastructure is as yet in place to support a new global trade focus and to allow the ships to simply go straight to Southampton or Liverpool rather than European ports (with their economies of scale). We do not have time to build all this extra stuff in 6 months. In the long run it will work out though and the biggest advantage to a hard BREXIT is that it represents a return to true independence.

Regarding European membership. Britain prospered in Europe achieving parity with France and Germany after having been the sick man of Europe in the seventies. It was an arrangement that worked and most of its rules were sensible ones with the perspective of multiple nation states rather than just one state seeking advantage.

If we have a hard BREXIT my biggest concern is the hard feelings and barriers it will put up between the UK and Europe. They remain our biggest trading partner and there is a massive cultural and personal exchange. 1 million Brits live in the EU and 3 million Europeans live in the UK.

 

[Francis Drake]

So the real choice here, the hard choice is to accept the deal on the table as an alternative to simply crashing out of Europe with no deal.

Its amazing how much hinges on a word, "simply crashing out, a word constantly used by the government, the Remainers and the press, to terrify the people!"
You forget that the majority of the world trades with perfect normality on that status of being "crashed out".
So I look forward to being crashed out, I just wish that people would stop using such a puerile description for returning back to our God given sovereignty as a nation state.

So we need to start planning for hard BREXIT now.

I agree, but first we need to sack all the scaremongers and doomsayers. That way we might get some sensible preparations made.
Don't forget that Cameron, so sure that the Remainers would win, forbade the civil service to do any preparations for losing the referendum.

 

[Francis Drake]

It will work out, but it would have been better to stay in Europe.

It might be better for the EU, but membership has been a disaster for the UK. My own business was destroyed by monster sized EU grants in Portugal that enabled them to manufacture finished goods at a far cheaper cost than we could buy the raw materials from EU sources.
The EU has created so many totally uneven and imbalanced commercial playing fields, using UK money to destroy UK businesses.

It is a selfish decision

What is selfish about wanting your country to be successful?​

Both Germany and France have done everything they can to ensure it is their own countries that benefits from EU legislation.
The Common Agricultural policy being primarily to aid archaic French farming to benefit against British farming efficiency.
For years, British farmers had to pour milk on their fields, whilst being forced to import French milk.

taken for all sorts of dubious reasons but in essence reflecting the nature of a country that has always been an island and always resented being controlled by foreign powers.

Quite correct, we particularly resent German dictatorship.

 

[Francis Drake]

Britain that does a hard BREXIT will have a massive short term hit as we import most of our stuff from Europe and indeed it is cheaper to do it that way.

There may be a short term hit, but much of that will be deliberately engineered to try and prove that the Remainers were right. We saw that after the referendum, the gov't carried on making negative claims despite the opposite happening.
But given that the EU has deliberately kept prices high to aid incompetent EU suppliers, global trade will undoubtedly lower prices.

I am not sure the port infrastructure is as yet in place to support a new global trade focus and to allow the ships to simply go straight to Southampton or Liverpool rather than European ports (with their economies of scale).

Again, any problems are likely to be down to gov't and civil service revenge, rather than reality. You only have to listen to the rhetoric to understand that.
A week or two ago, one gov't minster promised that Calais would immediately start a go slow against British lorries going through that French port. The Mayor of Calais went ballistic against such an idiotic gov't statement, and stated that as far as Calais was concerned they would do their best to ensure everything went as smoothly as possible. He pointed out that the citizens of Calais would react with extremely anger if the port authorities deliberately did things to cause even more congestion around the town.

We do not have time to build all this extra stuff in 6 months. In the long run it will work out though and the biggest advantage to a hard BREXIT is that it represents a return to true independence.

Amen, a God given independence that was deceitfully thrown away by the Tories back in the late 60s. And now we have that same deceitful Tory party's Europhile ministers pretending to negotiate Brexit.

Regarding European membership. Britain prospered in Europe achieving parity with France and Germany after having been the sick man of Europe in the seventies. It was an arrangement that worked and most of its rules were sensible ones with the perspective of multiple nation states rather than just one state seeking advantage.

No, its rules were senseless partisan ones as each nation sought to use biased legislation for their national advantage .

If we have a hard BREXIT my biggest concern is the hard feelings and barriers it will put up between the UK and Europe.

Vive la difference!
If you remember what happened when the former Yugoslavia was dismantled after Tito died. That once united nation suddenly burst apart violently at the seams. You cannot force a load of different nations into one mould, as the EU is trying to do. The differences are merely squashed down till later. Its far better to permit the differences to flourish and be appreciated. Multiculturalism is a demonic NWO idea.

They remain our biggest trading partner and there is a massive cultural and personal exchange.

The EU is not our biggest trading partner. Britain was and is a global trading nation, and will continue to be so.​

1 million Brits live in the EU and 3 million Europeans live in the UK.

Take note of that disparity. Mass immigration has hugely damaged the UK, putting massive demands on our infrastructure and forced house prices through the sky.