Nicene Creed

[scuba_steve83]

I communicated with someone this morning regarding the Nicene Creed.

Am I the only one who thinks it's ludicrous for some people to use an unscriptural creed as to say who is a Christian or who isn't? I sure hope you all out there aren't like that. I'd sure hope the members of these forums are more charitible than that.

The Nicene Creed, an extrabiblical doctrine, does NOT set the standard on who is a Christian. It is indirectly/discreetly/politely saying someone is not a Christian because they do not confess belief in a creed not of the holy scriptures.

Anyone who denies someone's Christianity based on the Nicene Creed ought to feel ashamed. Not just for indirectly implying someone is not a Christian based on the creed, but purposely continuing to blind themselves from the simple truth that a doctrine developed after the scriptures in the Bible are of NO AUTHORITY on who is a Christian.

Does anyone here believe in the apostles' doctrine? It's in Acts 2:38. On the day of Pentecost, Peter commanded three things the convicted Jews to do in response to their conviction when they accepted Jesus as being Lord. Peter, with the keys to the kingdom as given to him in Matthew 16:19, preached to repent, and to be baptized in the name of the Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and that they shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Jews gladly receive His word, were baptized, and THEN were 3,000 sould added unto them as Acts 2:41 says. Acts 2:42 even says they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine, meaning Peter's God-given commands were continued to be preached. Years later the same was continued to be preached as the rest of Acts show (Acts 8:16-17+22, 10:44-48, 19:2-6). The experience was not just for those in the days of the apostles, but it's for us today, too. No new creeds or denominations will be able to remove the truths that Jesus wanted to be preached starting at Jerusalem (Luke 24:47).

Only scripture can set the standard on how people became born-again Christians. Does any of this information make you think? Can you not see how the unbiblical Nicene Creed is seperating people from believing and obeying the gospel as first set forth in the Bible? Does anyone believe God's promise of the Holy Ghost is for you as Acts 2:39 says it is? My heart is burdened for people who object the truths Jesus died on the cross for us to know.

In His truth,
Stephen

 

[CopticOrthodox]

Uhm, the Nicean Creed was a statement of faith agreed upon by all Christians at a time when there was only on Church, no denominations. It was started at Nicea in 325 A.D. I.e. the Creed was written before it was decided which books are in the Bible. So if you reject the Nicean Creed, there are a few consequences, for example, if the Christianity expressed by the Creed is not correct, then there was no correct Christianity at that time since it represented all of Christianity, and therefore God broke His promse to always be with us. Also, if the basis for being a Christian is being "Bible-believing" rather than professing the Christian fath expressed by the Creed, then all the Christians in the Early Church, including the Apostles, were out of luck, since the NT wasn't available to read yet. If you have to be "Bible-believing", ie base your believes on your personal reading of the Bible, including the NT, and not on the faith of the Church, then there could be no real Christians in the time of the Apostles, or the 200 years after that... and very few true Christians until the invention of the printing press over a thousand years later. Do you really think that God abandoned all those people because the Bible wasn't readily available? There's nothing wrong with accepting the faith of the Early Church, expressed in the Creed and other aspects of Tradition.

 

[Justme]

Hi,

There is nothing wrong with accepting what is said in the bible either. Creed or no creed.

If the creed said something totally hard and fast that wasn't open to man's interpretation it would be great, but obviously we have so-called christian groups saying the Nicene creed means something other than Group A or group B. That is the problem.
Look at most of these forums...you have to agree with not THEE Nicene Creed, but the Nicene Creed as they interpret the Nicene Creed.

Justme

 

[Philip]

Look at most of these forums...you have to agree with not THEE Nicene Creed, but the Nicene Creed as they interpret the Nicene Creed.

After quick glance at history in general and at the Councils in particular, the meaning of the Creed according to its writers is clear.

 

[parousia70]

As a christian, I have no trouble accepting and professing belief in all parts of the Nicene Creed that are "eternally true".

The parts that do not remain true for eternity however, are indeed up for debate as to their termination point.

 

[BrianV]

The Nicene Creed says the same thing as the Apostle's Creed, just in more words. It expresses belief in God, his Son Jesus, his immaculate conception, death and ascension, the Holy Spirit, and the marks of the Church, to be brief. It's the religion in a nutshell, and I and the Church agree with everything it says.

I see no reason not to believe it.

BrianV

 

[Justme]

Hi Brian,

How are the dead raised? spiritually or physically? According to the Nicene Creed.

Justme

 

[BrianV]

You know, I was going to answer 'spiritually' right away, but apparently I would have been mistaken. I originally thought it meant about rising us out of that 'limbo' (for lack of a better word) that the souls went to before Jesus rose. I still need to look into this more, but it seem that it is physically.

http://www.catholic.com/library/resurrection_of_the_body.asp
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12792a.htm
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/art11.html

I, personally, am still learning all the finer points of the faith, and this is one point I'll have to look into a bit more. It seems the more and more I look I learn, the more and more I love it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention

Brian_V

 

[Justme]

Hi Brian,

That is my point. Most of these forums consist of those who believe there is a literal grave emptying physical resurrection at the time of a future return of Jesus.

I don't, as well as millions of others. The Nicene creed didn't jump out and answer the question for you and it it doesn't answer it for anybody elae either. Their and my, answer comes only from our preconcieved understanding we have BEFORE we read the Nicene Creed.

Justme

 

[ArtistEd]

I believe that if the creedilists just stuck to the Biblical terms used ie, natural body or spiritual body, then the argument would be made a lot clearer. But to say physical seems nonsensical to me. After all, are they saying that "we shall all be changed" from physical(which we are now) to physical? See what I mean? But to say, "we shall all be changed" from natural to spiritual, actually has meaning.

Ed

 

[Justme]

Hi Artist ,

Yes, it has meaning and it makes sense and it is biblically explainable, but do you think it would sell?

Justme

 

[Wrigley]

I communicated with someone this morning regarding the Nicene Creed.

Am I the only one who thinks it's ludicrous for some people to use an unscriptural creed as to say who is a Christian or who isn't? I sure hope you all out there aren't like that. I'd sure hope the members of these forums are more charitible than that.

The Nicene Creed, an extrabiblical doctrine, does NOT set the standard on who is a Christian. It is indirectly/discreetly/politely saying someone is not a Christian because they do not confess belief in a creed not of the holy scriptures.

Anyone who denies someone's Christianity based on the Nicene Creed ought to feel ashamed. Not just for indirectly implying someone is not a Christian based on the creed, but purposely continuing to blind themselves from the simple truth that a doctrine developed after the scriptures in the Bible are of NO AUTHORITY on who is a Christian.

Does anyone here believe in the apostles' doctrine? It's in Acts 2:38. On the day of Pentecost, Peter commanded three things the convicted Jews to do in response to their conviction when they accepted Jesus as being Lord. Peter, with the keys to the kingdom as given to him in Matthew 16:19, preached to repent, and to be baptized in the name of the Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and that they shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Jews gladly receive His word, were baptized, and THEN were 3,000 sould added unto them as Acts 2:41 says. Acts 2:42 even says they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine, meaning Peter's God-given commands were continued to be preached. Years later the same was continued to be preached as the rest of Acts show (Acts 8:16-17+22, 10:44-48, 19:2-6). The experience was not just for those in the days of the apostles, but it's for us today, too. No new creeds or denominations will be able to remove the truths that Jesus wanted to be preached starting at Jerusalem (Luke 24:47).

Only scripture can set the standard on how people became born-again Christians. Does any of this information make you think? Can you not see how the unbiblical Nicene Creed is seperating people from believing and obeying the gospel as first set forth in the Bible? Does anyone believe God's promise of the Holy Ghost is for you as Acts 2:39 says it is? My heart is burdened for people who object the truths Jesus died on the cross for us to know.

In His truth,
Stephen

Why would a thread about the Nicene Creed be placed in the unorthodox section of CF? Especially when one of the foundational beliefs to post in the Christian forums is the Nicene Creed.

 

[Philip]

Why would a thread about the Nicene Creed be placed in the unorthodox section of CF? Especially when one of the foundational beliefs to post in the Christian forums is the Nicene Creed.

The thread was begun by someone who denies portions of the Creed.

 

[MizDoulos]

Why would a thread about the Nicene Creed be placed in the unorthodox section of CF? Especially when one of the foundational beliefs to post in the Christian forums is the Nicene Creed.

Anyone who does not accept the Nicene Creed cannot post in any of the Christians Only areas; hence, the appropriate forum to bring up disagreements on the NC by those holding unorthodox beliefs would be in this forum. Along with Philip's response, I hope we've answered your question.

http://www.christianforums.com/t25474

 

[BrianV]

"That is my point. Most of these forums consist of those who believe there is a literal grave emptying physical resurrection at the time of a future return of Jesus.

I don't, as well as millions of others. The Nicene creed didn't jump out and answer the question for you and it it doesn't answer it for anybody elae either. Their and my, answer comes only from our preconcieved understanding we have BEFORE we read the Nicene Creed.

Justme"

I see your point, but there are other aspects of the faith that are also ambigious that need the believer to study more to understand it fully. Jesus spoke in parables and didn't jump out and answer a question, but we still understand what he means. While I agree that it may pose some confusion for a non-believer when hearing it, I think that those who believe would have no trouble accepting it.

Brian_V

 

[wblastyn]

The Nicene Creed is just a summary of essential Christian beliefs, so what's the problem?

 

[rose2u]

I am thankful for those that went before us,
which are within the Communion of Saints...
to have been blessed with the reasoning to enact a central core statement.

The 'Body of Christ' required for the time THEN and for the NOW, the clarified directional words to give centralized footing ..to proceed through the their current conflicts/confusion.

The ages did / have proceeded and we still have our Christian Church. Struggle as it will, God has given us (through those early statements) something that can and will always remain a privotal step toward the living expressed Christian faith.

Thanks be.. to those known and unknown Saints..
that they were able to be held with unified purpose.
Thanks be to God's Holy Spirit.

 

[parousia70]

What about the parts of the Creed that everyone agrees will need to be changed at some future point?

 

[Oblio]

What about the parts of the Creed that everyone agrees will need to be changed at some future point?

Such as ?

I certainly don't see this happening, at least not in the Orthodox Church.

 

[rose2u]

parousia70...the idea of a 'future change' in the Creed occurs not with changes in the words.

It occurs when the Holy Spirit takes one person or many into the grace of trust. Prayerfully appoach the Creed ... and believe beyond what the words imply.

One can meditate on it and discover that it not only was/is a faith declaration.. it's a mini capsule of things said and unsaid.

I haven't heard of the changes you suggest... but I hope that there is change found among those that feel the Creed needs adjustment.