NICENE CREED; should a christian really take this OATH?

[PACKY]

In A.D. 312, Constantine won control of the Roman Empire in the battle of Milvian Bridge. Attributing his victory to the intervention of Jesus Christ, he elevated Christianity to favored status in the empire. "One God, one Lord, one faith, one church, one empire, one emperor" became his motto.
To counter a widening rift within the church, Constantine convened a council in Nicaea in A.D. 325. A creed reflecting the position of Alexander and Athanasius was written and signed by a majority of the bishops. Nevertheless, the two parties continued to battle each other. In A.D. 381, a second council met in Constantinople. It adopted a revised and expanded form of the A.D. 325 creed, now known as the Nicene Creed.
Constantine HAd his wife strangled and his Son Murdered, he waited until he was on his death bed efore being baptized as he wanted to rule Rome without the fears of hellfire... He promoted Christianity as a way to monopolize power, he had a heavy influence in what was written in the Nicene creed...
here is a link for some more info: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/conv-const.html
I question to why a christian is to take this oath or to consider this oath sacred, Is a christian not simply a person who follows the teachings of christ? The bible says:

Oaths
33"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

so why would any christian want to be defined by a creed/oath written by men?
Why is it not Good enough to simply live by the teachings and laws Of Christ?

 

[DarthMom]

Great post, I agree.

I always found it strange that this site, and many christians in general put so much importance on some creed written by men. Bad men. Men that didn't have anything to do with Christ or the scriptures. Not surprised though, just thought it odd.

 

[PACKY]

Great post, I agree.

I always found it strange that this site, and many christians in general put so much importance on some creed written by men. Bad men. Men that didn't have anything to do with Christ or the scriptures. Not surprised though, just thought it odd.

I agree..It was a creed written to monopolize the christian Faith, for one mans and one nations power.....very Sad indeed..many people dont know the origin and the sorid past of this creed....

 

[Rochir]

Great first post! And I would agree with you as well. Words are just by men - Jesus deeds were devinely inpsired!

I am a Unitarian Christain, not recognized on this site even as a Christain (HMFP, how much more insulting can one get?), and even though we are a creedless church, we do have a confession which nicely defines our believes:

We believe in one God, the Creator and Preserver of all things,
And in Jesus Christ, the one Lord of the Church,
whose teachings and life form the standard of our faith and practice,
And in the holy spirit, the influence of God within us;
We believe in the divine element in conscience,
In free will and the responsibility that comes with it,
In the inspiration and sanctity of Scripture,
In the forgiveness of sins,
In God's universal love for all humankind,
And in the future advancement of the whole human family to holiness and happiness.​

The important part may be the third line - "whose teachings and life form the standard of our faith and practice"

Man is fallible (even the pope ) - God is not!

 

[PACKY]

Great first post! And I would agree with you as well. Words are just by men - Jesus deeds were devinely inpsired!

I am a Unitarian Christain, not recognized on this site even as a Christain (HMFP, how much more insulting can one get?), and even though we are a creedless church, we do have a confession which nicely defines our believes:

We believe in one God, the Creator and Preserver of all things,​

And in Jesus Christ, the one Lord of the Church,
whose teachings and life form the standard of our faith and practice,
And in the holy spirit, the influence of God within us;
We believe in the divine element in conscience,
In free will and the responsibility that comes with it,
In the inspiration and sanctity of Scripture,
In the forgiveness of sins,
In God's universal love for all humankind,
And in the future advancement of the whole human family to holiness and happiness.

The important part may be the third line - "whose teachings and life form the standard of our faith and practice"

Man is fallible (even the pope ) - God is not!

Wait...YOU ARE a christian, but because you dont take the Nicea Creed you are not recognized as a christian on CF??.....but what about the title
" UNITING ALL CHRISTIANS AS ONE BODY".. I am confused??......

 

[PACKY]

There is a sobering level of politicking involved in the whole process of the Council of Nicaea—before, during, and after—and quite apart from Constantine's role. There is "blood on the floor," so to speak. What are faithful Christians to make of this politically "dirty" process? Doesn't this taint the council and its resulting creed?

In the council, the bishops cooperated with—some would say, were co-opted by—the state. Was the die cast at the council for the state church model that would dominate the church for 1200 years and more?

Before the Council of Nicaea, there were plenty of local baptismal "creeds" that agreed in essentials while varying in details. Why coerce the whole church into accepting a single, rigidly defined creed promulgated by a single council? Was this really necessary?

LET US REMEMBER THE CREED WAS WRITTEN BY MEN....NOT BY DIVINE AUTHORSHIP

 

[Rochir]

but what about the title
" UNITING ALL CHRISTIANS AS ONE BODY".. I am confused??......

Maybe to unconfuse you and many others, Erwin should change the title of this site to "Uniting all Nicene-Trinitarian-Orthodox-Conservative Christians as one body"

 

[Rochir]

There is a sobering level of politicking involved in the whole process of the Council of Nicaea...

At EVERY council in history, no matter which creed or denomination, a LOT OF politicking is taking place, and much is done which is by far not divinely inspired!

 

[MidnightBlue]

so why would any christian want to be defined by a creed/oath written by men?

The Creed is not an oath. It's a statement of belief.

 

[PACKY]

At EVERY council in history, no matter which creed or denomination, a LOT OF politicking is taking place, and much is done which is by far not divinely inspired!

By and large the Nicea Council's purpose was to revamp the "creed" with the intent to consolidate Emperor Constantines power..This is the same creed that many people memorize and recite at religious events...this is the same creed that is to "define" christians? ..In my opinion this is a mockery of Gods dominion over the Earth, It is he who by divine authorship inspired the Bible, yet we now bring into the house of Our lord a CREED a OATH written by men as a means to increase their power and therefore their wealth...

 

[MidnightBlue]

By and large the Nicea Council's purpose was to revamp the "creed" with the intent to consolidate Emperor Constantines power..This is the same creed that many people memorize and recite at religious events...this is the same creed that is to "define" christians? ..In my opinion this is a mockery of Gods dominion over the Earth, It is he who by divine authorship inspired the Bible, yet we now bring into the house of Our lord a CREED a OATH written by men as a means to increase their power and therefore their wealth...

Once again, the Creed is not an oath.

The Creed was, indeed, written by men -- as was the Bible.

 

[PACKY]

Once again, the Creed is not an oath.

The Creed was, indeed, written by men -- as was the Bible.

The bible was written by Gods own inspiration and divine authorship, the Creed was obviously written by men...

 

[ahab]

The Nicene Creed is a basic standard for Christian churches. That it was written by men is no different from the scriptures (including those that record Jesus teachings). The Nicene Creed however summarises standards of faith of the Christian churches and all accept it (the Orthodox church does but it very unhappy over one line)

This is why CF obviously use it as a standard. The statement of faiths such as the Evangelical Alliance include statement as to the authority of the scriptures for all matters of faith and conduct. That includes all the teachings of Jesus as Lord.
If posters think the title should be changed it may tell them where they are with Christainity at the moment. I have no probelm with the Nicene Creed or the EAUK statement of faith.

Christianty is not for us to design, it has already been designed we either buy in or not IMO.

peace

 

[MidnightBlue]

The bible was written by Gods own inspiration and divine authorship, the Creed was obviously written by men...

I agree, the Creed was obviously written by men -- and it's equally obvious that the scriptures were written by men.

If one would like to believe that some of the writings of men were inspired by God, one might just as well believe the Creed was inspired, as the Bible.

 

[MidnightBlue]

ThThe Nicene Creed however summarises standards of faith of the Christian churches and all accept it (the Orthodox church does but it very unhappy over one line)

That one line (actually, one word, filioque) was added to the Creed much, much later. The Orthodox Church is quite content with the original Creed.

 

[ahab]

Hi midnightblue,

Yes I stand corrected.
The Nicene Creed is a summary of the scriptures though that was designed to counter heresy and wayward thought. Its hardly comprehensive but it widely used as a guide to who is and who isnt Christian, and I would say it does agree with the scritpures who ever wrote it.

Peace

 

[Rochir]

Let's ask the ever popular question - would Jesus recite the Nicene Creed?

 

[Rochir]

That one line (actually, one word, filioque) was added to the Creed much, much later. The Orthodox Church is quite content with the original Creed.

Seems as soon as there is a creed, there is division! That#s why I LOVE my creedless church!!!

 

[MidnightBlue]

Seems as soon as there is a creed, there is division! That#s why I LOVE my creedless church!!!

Of course, not all UU congregations refer to themselves as churches at all. Of the two nearest me, one is a church and one is a fellowship. A fine lot of people they are, too, and the area is a better place because of them. Many of them are not Christians, and to impose a creed would destroy their unity; I understand and respect that.

For a specifically Christian congregation, however, the Nicene Creed is a generally acceptable statement of belief -- even if CF finds it necessary to annotate the Creed in order to soothe the consciences of those it considers to be the "right type" of Christian, but who may have a problem with the Creed as generally understood.

 

[Chrysalis Kat]

Rochir, I suspect that the 'powers that be' aren't aware that there are Christian Unitarians as opposed to only there being Universalist Unitarians. Not sure if that would make a difference to them but perhaps this needs to be addressed?