Newspaper Exegesis: What if the Israelites Had Never Seen a Newspaper?

Dale

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Creationists usually tell us that they are literalists. They say that the right way to interpret the Bible is to read it the way you read a daily newspaper. In other words, it means what it says. The simplest interpretation is the best interpretation.

What if the ancient Israelites had never seen a newspaper? Guess what---they hadn’t!

Symbolic speech was very common in their world.

The newspaper analogy is a very imperfect one. The reason a modern newspaper is easy to read is that it was written only a day or so before you read it. Journalists and their readers share many assumptions about the world they live in. In contrast, many modern Christians know very little about about the thinking of ancient peoples. They very little about the geography, history and even the technology of ancient times.
 
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disciple Clint

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Creationists usually tell us that they are literalists. They say that the right way to interpret the Bible is to read it the way you read a daily newspaper. In other words, it means what it says. The simplest interpretation is the best interpretation.

What if the ancient Israelites had never seen a newspaper? Guess what---they hadn’t!

Symbolic speech was very common in their world.

The newspaper analogy is a very imperfect one. The reason a modern newspaper is easy to read is that it was written only a day or so before you read it. Journalists and their readers share many assumptions about the world they live in. In contrast, many modern Christians know very little about about the thinking of ancient peoples. They very little about the geography, history and even the technology of ancient times.
It should be obvious that there are things in the Bible that are not to be taken as literal.
 
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coffee4u

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Creationists usually tell us that they are literalists. They say that the right way to interpret the Bible is to read it the way you read a daily newspaper.

Still misquoting us and taking things out of context I see.

What we actually say is read literal parts of the Bible as literal.
Read poetry and songs as poetry and song.
Read parables as parables.
Read symbolism as symbolism.
Read prophesy as prophesy.
Exodus 20
1 And God spoke all these words:
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

There is nothing symbolic here, it is as straightforward as is the rest of the Ten commandments.
15 “You shall not steal."
13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.
Nothing about the Ten Commandments is symbolic. It is in fact more succinct than your average newspaper. The reader does not need to know the geography, history, culture or anything about the people to understand what "do not steal" means. An 8 year old child can understand what that means.

What else should God have said to get his point across?
 
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Dale

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Still misquoting us and taking things out of context I see.

What we actually say is read literal parts of the Bible as literal.
Read poetry and songs as poetry and song.
Read parables as parables.
Read symbolism as symbolism.
Read prophesy as prophesy.
Exodus 20
1 And God spoke all these words:
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

There is nothing symbolic here, it is as straightforward as is the rest of the Ten commandments.
15 “You shall not steal."
13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.
Nothing about the Ten Commandments is symbolic. It is in fact more succinct than your average newspaper. The reader does not need to know the geography, history, culture or anything about the people to understand what "do not steal" means. An 8 year old child can understand what that means.

What else should God have said to get his point across?


When did I misquote anyone? You’re making wild accusations.

Psalm 90 says that a thousand years are like a day to the Lord God.

Psalm 104 recounts the creation with no mention of days and no mention of Adam or Eve.

The passage that you quote from Exodus gives a condensed version of the first creation story in Genesis. It says that God rested on the seventh day. Does that mean that God is still resting today? That can’t be. Many passages in the Bible show that God is active in His creation.

In this passage, the creation story is used to back up the sabbath commandment, which is a commandment designed to see that everyone gets a day off from endless drudgery. God rested, so everyone should follow His example.

Yet this story of creation by days can be misinterpreted and misapplied. Some take it to mean that God established the sabbath at creation. If that were true, then Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would have followed a sabbath. There is no sign in Genesis that they did and scholars have concluded that they did not.

This form of the creation story has a purpose but it can also be misinterpreted, and misconstrued. Literalists can always seize on a point that they like while ignoring the intent and context of the passage.
 
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coffee4u

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When did I misquote anyone? You’re making wild accusations.

Right here of course. I'm replying to what you just put.

"Creationists usually tell us that they are literalists. They say that the right way to interpret the Bible is to read it the way you read a daily newspaper. In other words, it means what it says. The simplest interpretation is the best interpretation."

Which is why I said what we actually say is:
Read the literal parts of the Bible; the history and the law as literal.
Read the poetry as poetry
Read the prophesy as prophesy
Read parables as parables
Read symbolism as symbolism

By omitting how we actually read the Bible (By the way the Bible is the entire 66 books) you made a misleading comment. You want others to think we read the entire Bible as a newspaper and that simply isn't true.

Psalm 90 says that a thousand years are like a day to the Lord God.

Psalm 104 recounts the creation with no mention of days and no mention of Adam or Eve.

The psalms are poetry and song, lets see how did I say to read those...
"Read poetry as poetry"
How do we read poetry?
Poetic license involves the departure of facts or even rules for language in order to create a different effect, usually dramatic, for a piece of work or speech.
Psalm 96:12
Let the fields be jubilant, and everything in them; let all the trees of the forest sing for joy.
So departing from the facts, this Psalm, this piece of poetry gives us a mind picture of trees rustling in the wind. Nobody reads that and says the trees sing with actual words.


The passage that you quote from Exodus gives a condensed version of the first creation story in Genesis. It says that God rested on the seventh day. Does that mean that God is still resting today? That can’t be. Many passages in the Bible show that God is active in His creation.

That passage is the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are both historical fact and law together.

The Hebrew word used in Exodus 20 is 'nuakh' meaning to 'put in its place' and 'stopped'

If you don't understand the concept of Gods rest there are many sermons you can read or listen to on that topic.

In this passage, the creation story is used to back up the sabbath commandment, which is a commandment designed to see that everyone gets a day off from endless drudgery. God rested, so everyone should follow His example.

First correct thing you have said.

Yet this story of creation by days can be misinterpreted and misapplied. Some take it to mean that God established the sabbath at creation. If that were true, then Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would have followed a sabbath. There is no sign in Genesis that they did and scholars have concluded that they did not.

In Genesis 2 God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Exodus 20 reflects upon that
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

I don't know who 'some are' but I never said that God gave them the law at creation. The law was given to show mankind that they were sinners in need of a savior.
Galatians 3:19-26
Romans 7:7-25

Since Adam and Eve were created sinless, they had no need of law. After the fall, from the time between the fallen Adam to Mosses God dealt with them differently.
Romans 5:13
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

God would hardly expect them to keep a law that He had not yet given.

I don't see that this has anything to do with the topic at hand.


This form of the creation story has a purpose but it can also be misinterpreted, and misconstrued. Literalists can always seize on a point that they like while ignoring the intent and context of the passage.

So show me how anyone can possibly "misinterpreted and misconstrue" what God said here?
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them
What do you get out of this passage?


"ignoring the intent and context of the passage"
The intent and context of the passage was to give the Ten Commandments, part of the law. The law is historical and as such should be taken literally.
“You shall have no other gods before Me." should be taken literally
“You shall not murder." should be taken literally
“You shall not commit adultery." should be taken, literally.
God was not speaking in riddles or parables or symbolically here. He was telling them straight, not to steal, covert, make graven images etc, it isn't hard to understand.

To take an obviously literal passage and pluck out 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them and claim this one part is not literal makes no sense. The only possible motive to take this out and claim something else for it is because someone does not want to believe it.
 
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Dale

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Right here of course. I'm replying to what you just put.

"Creationists usually tell us that they are literalists. They say that the right way to interpret the Bible is to read it the way you read a daily newspaper. In other words, it means what it says. The simplest interpretation is the best interpretation."

Which is why I said what we actually say is:
Read the literal parts of the Bible; the history and the law as literal.
Read the poetry as poetry
Read the prophesy as prophesy
Read parables as parables
Read symbolism as symbolism

By omitting how we actually read the Bible (By the way the Bible is the entire 66 books) you made a misleading comment. You want others to think we read the entire Bible as a newspaper and that simply isn't true.



The psalms are poetry and song, lets see how did I say to read those...
"Read poetry as poetry"
How do we read poetry?
Poetic license involves the departure of facts or even rules for language in order to create a different effect, usually dramatic, for a piece of work or speech.
Psalm 96:12
Let the fields be jubilant, and everything in them; let all the trees of the forest sing for joy.
So departing from the facts, this Psalm, this piece of poetry gives us a mind picture of trees rustling in the wind. Nobody reads that and says the trees sing with actual words.




That passage is the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are both historical fact and law together.

The Hebrew word used in Exodus 20 is 'nuakh' meaning to 'put in its place' and 'stopped'

If you don't understand the concept of Gods rest there are many sermons you can read or listen to on that topic.



First correct thing you have said.



In Genesis 2 God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Exodus 20 reflects upon that
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

I don't know who 'some are' but I never said that God gave them the law at creation. The law was given to show mankind that they were sinners in need of a savior.
Galatians 3:19-26
Romans 7:7-25

Since Adam and Eve were created sinless, they had no need of law. After the fall, from the time between the fallen Adam to Mosses God dealt with them differently.
Romans 5:13
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

God would hardly expect them to keep a law that He had not yet given.

I don't see that this has anything to do with the topic at hand.




So show me how anyone can possibly "misinterpreted and misconstrue" what God said here?
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them
What do you get out of this passage?


"ignoring the intent and context of the passage"
The intent and context of the passage was to give the Ten Commandments, part of the law. The law is historical and as such should be taken literally.
“You shall have no other gods before Me." should be taken literally
“You shall not murder." should be taken literally
“You shall not commit adultery." should be taken, literally.
God was not speaking in riddles or parables or symbolically here. He was telling them straight, not to steal, covert, make graven images etc, it isn't hard to understand.

To take an obviously literal passage and pluck out 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them and claim this one part is not literal makes no sense. The only possible motive to take this out and claim something else for it is because someone does not want to believe it.

Coffee:
<< Read parables as parables
Read symbolism as symbolism>>


I can recall no occasion that any creationist has ever said any such thing.
What creationists really do is to constantly assume that the Israelites knew a lot more about the physical world than they really did. As I have pointed out in the past, the Israelites didn't know that the heart pumps blood. No other ancient people knew this, either. Yet most creationists simply won't believe this. That's only one example.
 
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coffee4u

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Coffee:
<< Read parables as parables
Read symbolism as symbolism>>


I can recall no occasion that any creationist has ever said any such thing.
What creationists really do is to constantly assume that the Israelites knew a lot more about the physical world than they really did. As I have pointed out in the past, the Israelites didn't know that the heart pumps blood. No other ancient people knew this, either. Yet most creationists simply won't believe this. That's only one example.

Last time you said that to me about the Israelite's and knowing about the natural world I told you they didn't need to understand any of that just as they didn't need to understand about germs, contagions and quarantine. God told them to quarantine outside the camp for 7 days and then a priest would check them and if needed they would quarantine another 7 days. They did not have to understand the law or the reasons behind it, they only had to trust and obey.
So I don't see what their understanding or lack there of has to do with anything.

Also if you hadn't noticed people are different. So far on here I have found pre-world people, flat earth people, theistic evolutionists and more. Creationists differ like anybody else.
 
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