News? Probably not, but it needs to be said

[Matt Never Existed]

Its with a sad heart that I am forced to admit that we've become this way, the way I'm about to share with you..

We've all set our minds to a certain side, and we are most probably not going to be changing them any time soon. Each side thinks he/she is right. Each side will try to show the other side 'the truth'. I think we are all normally close-minded and hardhearted about actually trying to see the other persons side of the arguement, each person to a different degree, but we all do this at one point or another.

But the great thing about this free will thing is that we are ALLOWED to do this. I can ignore what everyone says about eating shellfish. ( I <3 All Seafood. I'm like a Texan Pirate with no boat, no eye patch, no peg leg, and no parrot.). Heck, I am free to believe as I do now, that the Old Laws are no more, and to live by just ONE of them is to be in bondage, for there is no salvation in the Old Laws. But while I can disagree with someone's beliefs, I have no right to make them feel like anything less than a person. I am called, by our christ Jesus, to treat ALL people as I treat myself. And since I view myself as a wonderful creation, I can not think of everyone else as anything less.

The problem with the normal arguements that we all have about homosexuality is that I feel as though someone normally leaves the conversation feeling like they aren't good enough, or we get so uptight that we can no longer see the people behind the posts, the hearts that cry out for God.

Instead of tearing eachother down, why can't we build eachother up in Christ? Simple. We want to be somehow directly involved with someone changing their lifestyle to fit our views on what sin is. We want to be able to think to ourselves, just for a second, that WE caused this to happen. I think that we would all be alot better off if we started to focus on building up and supporting the PEOPLE BEHIND THE POSTS, the people behind the funny names and colored text. We are all brothers and sisters. The world may hate us, or 'strongly dislike' us, but we can still love everyone no matter what. Thats one of the reasons WHY the world doesn't like us. People don't understand how we can love certain people so much, to the point of it being called 'unconditional'. It scares some people, those people who LIVE in hatred. Not hatred for EVERYONE, but just hatred for maybe one person. Thats all it takes to become bound to Hate, to become addicted to feeling like you're a better person than someone else. Heck, you can see what I'm talking about in Fred Phelps. He is a perfect example of what will happen if we don't start treating people as people, and not as dogs of the earth.

I'm a sinner just like the next guy. Heck, in my eyes, I'm the worst sinner thats ever walked the earth. I'm human and I like to feel like I'm better than someone else. I lose sight of what Jesus told us, that we are to treat our neighbor as ourself. If only we could all just stop trying to do this and just DO it.

To me, loving your neighbor doesn't mean telling him/her that they are living in sin, or that they are sinning in some way. It means just loving ON them, not judging them for anything, and giving the same respect that I give myself. I'd rather trust in God that he's working in their hearts to get rid of that sin than try to put it in my hands.. these dirty, horrible hands that helped nail Jesus to that cross. My hands helped hold the nails.. My hands helped hammer them into his flesh.. and now my hands streached upward in a silent prayer for forgiveness for what I did, for what I had a part in. These hands have no right to try to fix someone else's sins, as they can't even fix my own.

 

[seebs]

An excellent post.

 

[Matt Never Existed]

I know it isn't 'news' or a 'current event', but since this place has been the new home of the homosexuality threads, and various other threads that spark 'heated debate', I feel as though it should be said. Its almost like a reality check. If any MOD feels it should be moved, well.. ~shrug~ its all yours. ^.^

 

[27D4]

I just read this this morning and thought I would share: I'm a couple days behind but the subject is right on with this thread.

Oswald Chambers: My Utmost for His Highest - March 31
[font=Times New Roman, New York,Serif][size=+2]Heedfulness or Hypocrisy in Ourselves?[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Verdana,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death[/font][font=Arial,Verdana,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][size=-1]
—1 John 5:16[/size][/font]​

If we are not heedful and pay no attention to the way the Spirit of God works in us, we will become spiritual hypocrites. We see where other people are failing, and then we take our discernment and turn it into comments of ridicule and criticism, instead of turning it into intercession on their behalf. God reveals this truth about others to us not through the sharpness of our minds but through the direct penetration of His Spirit. If we are not attentive, we will be completely unaware of the source of the discernment God has given us, becoming critical of others and forgetting that God says, ". . . he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death." Be careful that you don’t become a hypocrite by spending all your time trying to get others right with God before you worship Him yourself.

One of the most subtle and illusive burdens God ever places on us as saints is this burden of discernment concerning others. He gives us discernment so that we may accept the responsibility for those souls before Him and form the mind of Christ about them (see Philippians 2:5 ). We should intercede in accordance with what God says He will give us, namely, "life for those who commit sin not leading to death." It is not that we are able to bring God into contact with our minds, but that we awaken ourselves to the point where God is able to convey His mind to us regarding the people for whom we intercede.

Can Jesus Christ see the agony of His soul in us? He can’t unless we are so closely identified with Him that we have His view concerning the people for whom we pray. May we learn to intercede so wholeheartedly that Jesus Christ will be completely and overwhelmingly satisfied with us as intercessors.

 

[Ampmonster]

i know everyones side

 

[Matt Never Existed]

P.S. to my OP..

Not everyone is that way. It just seems like the majority of people are. ~shrug~

 

[Christi]

i know everyones side

Christians should all be on the same side. Some of us are gonna be wrong, in the end, about certain issues. Some of us will have more to lose by being wrong than others, but I feel very strongly that unity and love and support are really important to Him, within His body. I wish we could find some way to do that, and build each other up and not tear each other down. If we could find some way to let Him love others through us, the way He does loves them. 27D4 made a good post, also......praying for people and releasing them to God, does more than we can ever do on our own. And Matt, you have the sweetest heart for God.....whether you are wrong or right about all this, listen to Him.

 

[Polycarp1]

Great post, Matt. The spirit of Christ speaks through your words.

I usually hate posts that are 95% Scripture quotes without commentary, but I think that there are several that are important comments on your topic:

For by the grace given to me I bid every one among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith which God has assigned him.
4: For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function,
5: so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
6: Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;
7: if service, in our serving; he who teaches, in his teaching;
8: he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who contributes, in liberality; he who gives aid, with zeal; he who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.
9: Let love be genuine; hate what is evil, hold fast to what is good;
10: love one another with brotherly affection; outdo one another in showing honor.
11: Never flag in zeal, be aglow with the Spirit, serve the Lord.
12: Rejoice in your hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer.
13: Contribute to the needs of the saints, practice hospitality.
14: Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.
15: Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
16: Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly; never be conceited.
17: Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.
18: If possible, so far as it depends upon you, live peaceably with all.

Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God;
11: for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God."
12: So each of us shall give account of himself to God.
13: Then let us no more pass judgment on one another, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
14: I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but it is unclean for any one who thinks it unclean.
15: If your brother is being injured by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. Do not let what you eat cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died.
16: So do not let your good be spoken of as evil.
17: For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit;
18: he who thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19: Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

1: So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any incentive of love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy,
2: complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.
3: Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves.
4: Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.
5: Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
6: who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7: but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
8: And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.
9: Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name,
10: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11: and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12: Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
13: for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
14: Do all things without grumbling or questioning,
15: that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,
16: holding fast the word of life....

Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God.
8: He who does not love does not know God; for God is love.
9: In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
10: In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins.
11: Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12: No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
13: By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his own Spirit.
14: And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world.
15: Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
16: So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
17: In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so are we in this world.
18: There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love.
19: We love, because he first loved us.
20: If any one says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.
21: And this commandment we have from him, that he who loves God should love his brother also.

(Romans 12:3-18, Romans 14:10-19, Philippians 2:1-16a, I John 4:7-21)

It seems to me that there's a common thread of loving and upholding each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, running through the epistles. And that that is the farthest thing from what sometimes passes for "Christianity" today. Have we in fact "lost our first love" for Christ, and in seeking to live lives for Him and exhorting others to do so, passed insensibly from participating in His righteousness to the self-righteousness of the Pharisees?

 

[Christi]

Great post, Matt. The spirit of Christ speaks through your words.

I usually hate posts that are 95% Scripture quotes without commentary, but I think that there are several that are important comments on your topic:





(Romans 12:3-18, Romans 14:10-19, Philippians 2:1-16a, I John 4:7-21)

It seems to me that there's a common thread of loving and upholding each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, running through the epistles. And that that is the farthest thing from what sometimes passes for "Christianity" today. Have we in fact "lost our first love" for Christ, and in seeking to live lives for Him and exhorting others to do so, passed insensibly from participating in His righteousness to the self-righteousness of the Pharisees?

Yes. The mind of Christ. I think it has less to do with what is sin and what isn't and/or pointing it out to people, rather than it has to do with having the "mind of Christ". He's more about bringing us in, rather than keeping us out. He's more about us loving him with our whole hearts, than keeping all the rules. He wants our personal, total, unconditional surrender to follow Him anywhere, regardless of the cost........but yet He doesn't require us to be hall moniters to everyone else. When someone loves Him with all their hearts, there isn't anything they wouldn't give up for Him, or give TO Him. It's about loving each other so much that they see Him in us and walk away closer to Him for that. It's so hard and such a fine line, but I have known Christians like that.....Christians who make me see what is possible by knowing Him more. They are few, but they are strong.

 

[chalice_thunder]

Matt - bro! You can come preach at my church anytime. Superb posting.

And Poly - thanks for reminding us of those passages...very fitting at this point. May I dare to add a 9th century text? A translation of the Latin "Ubi Caritas" ...this has always been one of my favorites, and speaks to both of your postings:

Where love and loving-kindness are together, God is always there
Since Christ’s love has gathered us all together in one company,
Let us rejoice and take delight n Him, now and forever,
Let us now without any reserve or deception love one another.

Where love and loving-kindness are together, God is always there,
Therefore, whenever we are together,
Let us not be divided from each other in our feelings;
Let spite, quarreling and strife cease among us, and may Christ, who is God, be in our midst.

Where love and loving-kindness are together, God is always there
Bring us, in the company of the blessed, to behold Your great beauty,
To see Your face in glory, Christ our God,
There to possess heaven’s peace and joy, Your truth and love,
Happiness of immeasurable excellence,
Through unending ages of ages, world without end.

 

[Matt Never Existed]

Matt - bro! You can come preach at my church anytime. Superb posting

Haha, I don't do so well infront of crowds. I'm so shy when in a super large group of people. (20+ people). I'm MUCH more comfortable on my soapbox on the sidewalk. ^.^

now if only I could find a HUGE body sign, I could SO think of some funny things I could put on that.

 

[praying]

Excellent post Matt!!!!!!!!

 

[Blessed75]

Great post hon! Just fantastic! Hugs babe!

 

[paxvobiscum]

It seems to me that there's a common thread of loving and upholding each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, running through the epistles. And that that is the farthest thing from what sometimes passes for "Christianity" today. Have we in fact "lost our first love" for Christ, and in seeking to live lives for Him and exhorting others to do so, passed insensibly from participating in His righteousness to the self-righteousness of the Pharisees?

You couldn't of said it any better, Polycarp. Kudos.

laus Deo

 

[mikefromwichita]

Somone who insists that a behaviour that God explicitly forbids is somehow right and acceptable before God is NOT someone I will call Brother. Redefining 'love' to mean open ended acceptance of that which God forbids and that which all experience shows to be destructive of both individuals and Society is not going to get a free pass either.

 

[Kelly]

Somone who insists that a behaviour that God explicitly forbids is somehow right and acceptable before God is NOT someone I will call Brother. Redefining 'love' to mean open ended acceptance of that which God forbids and that which all experience shows to be destructive of both individuals and Society is not going to get a free pass either.

Matt wasn't asking you to embrace his lifestyle. He's just asking why can't we all follow what Jesus himself called the second greatest commandment. It's not an issue of what is sin and isn't. It shouldn't matter to us, since we will stand before Jesus ourselves one day and each will be judged. I know that I am not without sin, why should I get support/help/encouragement from Christians when others get rejection/prejudice/shunned?

Thanks Matt for a great wake up call.

 

[Blessed75]

Somone who insists that a behaviour that God explicitly forbids is somehow right and acceptable before God is NOT someone I will call Brother. Redefining 'love' to mean open ended acceptance of that which God forbids and that which all experience shows to be destructive of both individuals and Society is not going to get a free pass either.

huh - I find that really sad for you.

edited to add why - Jesus loved everyone, no matter the race, sex etc. He was all about LOVE. God knows the heart - I will consider all of God's people my brother and sister, no matter their race, sex, straight, gay whatever...........

 

[Blessed75]

Matt wasn't asking you to embrace his lifestyle. He's just asking why can't we all follow what Jesus himself called the second greatest commandment. It's not an issue of what is sin and isn't. It shouldn't matter to us, since we will stand before Jesus ourselves one day and each will be judged. I know that I am not without sin, why should I get support/help/encouragement from Christians when others get rejection/prejudice/shunned?

Thanks Matt for a great wake up call.

Excellent post kelly!

 

[UberLutheran]

Somone who insists that a behaviour that God explicitly forbids is somehow right and acceptable before God is NOT someone I will call Brother. Redefining 'love' to mean open ended acceptance of that which God forbids and that which all experience shows to be destructive of both individuals and Society is not going to get a free pass either.

Why don't you tell that to Jesus, and let us know what He says to you about that.

Before you talk to Him, you might want to meditate on a couple of Scripture passages:

Romans 2:1-3
1 Therefore you are without excuse, man, whoever you are who judge. For in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself. For you who judge practice the same things.
2 We know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.
3 Do you know this, O man who judges those who practice such things, and do the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?

Seems as though I remember that Jesus was homeless, didn't have a penny to His name, ate with and associated with the dregs of society of His day (tax collectors, publicans, women, even prostitutes) and really rather abhorred the good, righteous and religious hypocrites of His day.

I do wonder what He'd think of televangelists claiming that their lives will be snuffed out unless they get another million dollars in donations; or the hyper-sanctified religious bigots of our day (the Falwells, the Robertsons, the Phelps, etc.), or those who go around self-righteously declaring that those who are not like them, or those who do not share the same conservative political or religious beliefs as they deserves exactly the misery they receive (and God said so).

And I wonder what He'd think of people who claim to be more "deserving" of salvation than others, or more "righteous" than others, or who are more "sanctified" than others, especially in light of these two passages:

Romans 3:9-23
9 What then? Are we better than they? No, in no way. For we previously charged both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written, "There is no one righteous. No, not one.
11 There is no one who understands. There is no one who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside. They have together become unprofitable. There is no one who does good, no, not, so much as one."
13 "Their throat is an open tomb. With their tongues they have used deceit." "The poison of vipers is under their lips;"
14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood.
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways.
17 The way of peace, they haven't known."
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
19 Now we know that whatever things the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God.
20 Because by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified in his sight. For through the law comes the knowledge of sin.
21 But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets;
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction,
23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God.

and Romans 14;10-14
10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, "'As I live,' says the Lord, 'to me every knee will bow. Every tongue will confess to God.'"
12 So then each one of us will give account of himself to God.
13 Therefore Let's not judge one another any more, but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block in his brother's way, or an occasion of falling.
14 I know, and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself; except that to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Maybe you won't call those "unacceptables" 'brother', but as for me -- well, Christ died for them, too; and if they're acceptable to Him, they're acceptable to me -- and those 'brothers' are perfectly welcome in my house.

 

[Mϋzikdϋde]

P.S. to my OP..

Not everyone is that way. It just seems like the majority of people are. ~shrug~

I'm not like that and you can't convince me otherwise.