New Zealand Police Say Multiple Deaths in 2 Mosque Shootings in Christchurch

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

You pretty much are doing a "both sides" spin.

I used Antifa as one example. What they do is on a different order than what happened at this Mosque but we should be able to agree that what they do is bad and that they don't represent the entirety of left.

 

[Chesterton]

Is Islam a False Religion?

This type of thread is an example to show how anti [insert another religion here] can be taken one step further to foster hostile thoughts towards people of another religion - then one step further again to start murder.

No it's not.

I would use the suffering we see in NZ as a beacon that shines a light on thoughts/comments that foster hate and vilification of another religion - and denounce such comments.

Why have you mentioned Christians twice in this thread when the story has nothing to do with Christians?

 

[SummerMadness]

I used Antifa as one example. What they do is on a different order than what happened at this Mosque but we should be able to agree that what they do is bad and that they don't represent the entirety of left.

It's a bad example and is not related to the topic other than pushing the false narrative that antifa and the right-wing terrorism seen in this story is interchangeable.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Christchurch mosque shooting: Linwood mosque 'hero' tackled gunman, grabbed weapon

No need for scare quotes on that hero.

Mazharuddin said the shooter was wearing protective gear and firing wildly.

A man from inside the mosque then tried to tackle the gunman.

"The young guy who usually takes care of the mosque ... he saw an opportunity and pounced on [the gunman] and took his gun," Mazharuddin said.

"The hero tried to chase and he couldn't find the trigger in the gun ... he ran behind him but there were people waiting for him in the car and he fled."

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I understand one of them WAS Australian. You should feel free to dispense some long gaol time before sending back to us - a life-long stint in Nauru is unlikely but none the less a good idea.

My suggestion to a friend was that they put him in the cell block inhabited by the worst Black Power rapists and murderers. Like in space no one can hear you scream. In the same way in the high security cell block among the Black Power, no one will hear him scream. ***JOKE!!!***

Although all decent-minded people will have thoughts of revenge, the truth is that vengeance belongs to the Lord, and the terrorist's day will come.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Thanks to the internet, I believe it's not hard for these sort of ideas to spread to places we would not expect.

We actually had a similar shooting at a Pittsburg synagogue last year. The response by Donald Trump was neutered mostly because he is wary of offending people perceived as his supporters. Since Trump was elected, hate crimes of all kinds have gone up in the US, particularly anti-semitic and anti-muslim hate crimes. So, don't count on Trump to be an effective partner against white supremacist. He has their ear, even if he isn't exactly one himself.

Mr Trump would be committing political suicide if he did not fully condemn what happened here and gave any appearance of even the slightest support of the terrorist.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

According to most of the press in the US, the gunmen were motivated by the same sort of ideology that Anders Brevik was, a perception that they were a crusader for western and "Christian" culture.

Some pastors do encourage this sort of thing by wrapping islamaphobia in piety, but I think its more the fault of politicians who adopt the symbols and externalities of Christianity merely to pander to the right, polluting the religion with their fascist tendencies.

I know my own church repudiates the concept of crusade as an error of our Catholic past, but I don't think it penetrates into the culture as much as it should. And for many others, it is a potent symbol even if we are far removed from its medieval context.

I think that genuine Christian churches practice the truth that Jesus did not come to condemn the world but to save it. This means that we should treat all people, including Muslims, with grace, and not judgment and condemnation.

Loving Christians in NZ and around the world will weep with the families of innocent Muslim dead, and mourn alongside them. Religious differences fade away in the face of tragedy and grief.

 

[mala]

Mr Trump would be committing political suicide if he did not fully condemn what happened here and gave any appearance of even the slightest support of the terrorist.

honestly i doubt it. with all the things he has done until now and to still have the support of his base. i'm sure he could have gone full on terrorist supporter and his base would still take his side.

 

[High Fidelity]

It was only a matter of time. Websites like 4chan and the Donald Trump subreddit are filled with people like this shooter.

 

[All Englands Skies]

You pretty much are doing a "both sides" spin.

I think the point he is making is that this event should not be used to call anybody who disagree with Islam is responsible for this, like basically a Christian cannot theologically be against Islam and see no truth in it and feel Islam, as a religion is generally an anti-Christian one, because in doing so he is of the same mould as the terrorist (pretty much making it impossible to defend Christianity and by default makes Islam the "true" religion. But in reality a Muslim who thinks Christianity is corrupted and that Christians are guilty of "Shirk" should be considered the same as an ISIS member, if fair is fair)

A good example would be to say, that if an Islamist carries out a terrorist attack, any Muslim with critical feelings about western foreign policy should also be called an extremist, as Islamists use foreign policy as a big excuse, so a Muslim who simply thinks the Western powers should stop adding petrol to the flames in the middle east, is an extremist, its a silly notion, there is legitimate arguments against foreign policy.

Those people at the mosque were murdered by a extremist today and such actions are vile on any human being.

 

[mala]

It was only a matter of time. Websites like 4chan and the Donald Trump subreddit are filled with people like this shooter.

Not just in those places. I've found over the years several of the more extreme posters in this very forum espousing the same views, more openly, on other forums. These idiots just use the same handle across all sites.

 

[mala]

I think the point he is making is that this event should not be used to call anybody who disagree with Islam is responsible for this, like basically a Christian cannot theologically be against Islam and see no truth in it and feel Islam, as a religion is generally an anti-Christian one, because in doing so he is of the same mould as the terrorist (pretty much making it impossible to defend Christianity and by default makes Islam the "true" religion. But in reality a Muslim who thinks Christianity is corrupted and that Christians are guilty of "Shirk" should be considered the same as an ISIS member, if fair is fair)

A good example would be to say, that if an Islamist carries out a terrorist attack, any Muslim with critical feelings about western foreign policy should also be called an extremist, as Islamists use foreign policy as a big excuse, so a Muslim who simply thinks the Western powers should stop adding petrol to the flames in the middle east, is an extremist, its a silly notion, there is legitimate arguments against foreign policy.

Those people at the mosque were murdered by a extremist today and such actions are vile on any human being.

Yeah that's so nice and all but it is only ever afforded to right wing Christian terrorists. Every single time a person with even a remotely foreign name does something we get endless threads about how all Muslims are the problem. So cry me a river with your crocodile tears.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think the point he is making is that this event should not be used to call anybody who disagree with Islam is responsible for this, like basically a Christian cannot theologically be against Islam and see no truth in it and feel Islam, as a religion is generally an anti-Christian one, because in doing so he is of the same mould as the terrorist (pretty much making it impossible to defend Christianity and by default makes Islam the "true" religion. But in reality a Muslim who thinks Christianity is corrupted and that Christians are guilty of "Shirk" should be considered the same as an ISIS member, if fair is fair)

A good example would be to say, that if an Islamist carries out a terrorist attack, any Muslim with critical feelings about western foreign policy should also be called an extremist, as Islamists use foreign policy as a big excuse, so a Muslim who simply thinks the Western powers should stop adding petrol to the flames in the middle east, is an extremist, its a silly notion, there is legitimate arguments against foreign policy.

Those people at the mosque were murdered by a extremist today and such actions are vile on any human being.

What does it really mean to be against a religion, considering that religions are made of actual people who are our neighbors that we are called to love?

I am not a Muslim. I don't believe in Islam. Yet I am not against Islam. I simply don't believe in it. And I think that's an important distinction.

 

[usexpat97]

If a religion leads people to hell, then I am against it. Precisely because I am pro- the people. After all, I don't want them to go to hell.

 

[durangodawood]

What does it really mean to be against a religion, considering that religions are made of actual people who are our neighbors that we are called to love?

I am not a Muslim. I don't believe in Islam. Yet I am not against Islam. I simply don't believe in it. And I think that's an important distinction.

Religions are basically ideologies.

I am against certain ideologies. Arent you? Thats mainly what it means to be "against a religion", although there are other dumb reasons like tribalism and so on.

 

[FireDragon76]

If a religion leads people to hell, then I am against it. Precisely because I am pro- the people. After all, I don't want them to go to hell.

Religions don't lead people to hell, their sins do that. God doesn't pick people based on what tribe they belong to, and it's a distortion of Christian theology to think he does.

 

[FireDragon76]

Religions are basically ideologies.

I am against certain ideologies. Arent you? Thats mainly what it means to be "against a religion", although there are other dumb reasons like tribalism and so on.

Religions are more than ideologies. Especially having experienced eastern religions, which is something that Islam is really more like, I can tell you that religion encompasses more than some facts and ideas you choose to fill your head with. It includes patterns of living and relationships that you are thrown into at birth.

 

[usexpat97]

If a religion leads you to believe you don't need Christ's cross as payment for your sins, then that religion is leading you to hell.

 

[durangodawood]

Religions are more than ideologies. Especially having experienced eastern religions, which is something that Islam is really more like, I can tell you that religion encompasses more than some facts and ideas you choose to fill your head with. It includes patterns of living and relationships that you are thrown into at birth.

Oh I know, but the ideological component of religion definitely does drive political inclinations that everyone else has to contend with. Sometimes its the moral backstop for intense repression.

 

[Goonie]

So whilst claiming there is no growing white nationalist threat, Trump reiterates that the US is being invaded by immigrants. Mr president you are part of the problem.
Trump denies white nationalism is growing threat – US politics live