New Zealand Police Say Multiple Deaths in 2 Mosque Shootings in Christchurch

[Zoii]

The muslims need to arm themselves to protect themselves. They need armed muslim security guards. They'll need their own homeland to protect themselves from persecution. How about Palestine?

Not sure whether the shooters accomplished what they set out for.

They have their own home already - It was New Zealand and the type of God they worshipped doesn't alter their nationality.

 

[FireDragon76]

My error.
One commentator said that the NZ SIS concentrated their security measures on Muslim extremists and the police thought that white supremacists were "clowns", but now the events have proved otherwise and our security intelligence services have to do a lot of re-thinking.

The Australian Prime Minister has indicated that they will be taking a more serious look at white supremacism in Austalia, and I think that Mr Trump and his advisers will be viewing what happened here very closely and thinking about what they can do to prevent white supremacists and neo-Nazis doing the same in the United States.

Thanks to the internet, I believe it's not hard for these sort of ideas to spread to places we would not expect.

We actually had a similar shooting at a Pittsburg synagogue last year. The response by Donald Trump was neutered mostly because he is wary of offending people perceived as his supporters. Since Trump was elected, hate crimes of all kinds have gone up in the US, particularly anti-semitic and anti-muslim hate crimes. So, don't count on Trump to be an effective partner against white supremacist. He has their ear, even if he isn't exactly one himself.

 

[Zoii]

Pity we don't have Mossad in NZ. They know how to deal with terrorists. Our Prime Minister has now identified the attack as a definite terrorist attack and has raised the terrorist security alert level across NZ from low to high. This is the first time this has ever happened in NZ.

I predict a time of mass arrests of white supremacists right around New Zealand after this. I think it has been a great shock for us here, and has destroyed the image that New Zealand is immune from terrorism. We will see calls to have our police routinely armed and security checks at our borders will be much stricter. It will now be much harder for terrorists to get access to New Zealand after this.

I would like to see that white supremacist and neo-Nazis given criminal status in New Zealand attracting a minimum prison term of five years.

Maybe our Prime Minister should go and visit Mr Trump and take notes from him about how he took measures to block prospective terrorists entering the U.S. after 9/11.

In my opinion, your PM needs ZERO advice from Trump. I would rate Jacinda Ardern as a shining example of how a nations leader should be - she is truly a great leader.

 

[FireDragon76]

The muslims need to arm themselves to protect themselves. They need armed muslim security guards. They'll need their own homeland to protect themselves from persecution. How about Palestine?

Not sure whether the shooters accomplished what they set out for.

My guess is they are skirting the edge of reality like the Manson Family, Dylan Roof (Charleston church shooting) or Anders Brevik and believe that their attack would instigate some kind of race war or religious war.

 

[Zoii]

Christians also need to take note of their own behaviours - How often have I heard hate speech on the site from Christians with respect to Muslims.

In NZ they can grow some very hostile Pastors who encourage violence, hostility and social discord

The above ratbag got deported from Australia but NZ didn't want him either. If you rate yourself a good Christian and denounce violence, then also denounce the hate speech against any other religion - even when it occurs on this site.

 

[Albion]

Donald Trump isn’t going to do anything about white supremecists and Neo Nazis in the U.S. They are his supporters and when nazis marched through the streets chanting “Jews will not replace us” he said that some of them were “ good people.”

Oh that ol lie again.

 

[Zoii]

Oh that ol lie again.

errr guys - just for once - this isnt about America, American politics, or Americans. This is about NZ and the terrorist event there.

 

[FireDragon76]

Christians also need to take note of their own behaviours - How often have I heard hate speech on the site from Christians with respect to Muslims.

In NZ they can grow some very hostile Pastors who encourage violence, hostility and social discord

The above ratbag got deported from Australia but NZ didn't want him either. If you rate yourself a good Christian and denounce violence, then also denounce the hate speech against any other religion - even when it occurs on this site.

There is definitely a mishmash of malign sentiments about Muslims out there, partly it is the fault of some religious leaders, and partly it is the result of opportunistic politicians.

 

[Albion]

“Guys?“ You don't have to persuade me, Zoii.

 

[FireDragon76]

Christians also need to take note of their own behaviours - How often have I heard hate speech on the site from Christians with respect to Muslims.

In NZ they can grow some very hostile Pastors who encourage violence, hostility and social discord

The above ratbag got deported from Australia but NZ didn't want him either. If you rate yourself a good Christian and denounce violence, then also denounce the hate speech against any other religion - even when it occurs on this site.

I don't think that pastor was encouraging violence directly, but he was definitely disrupting a religious assembly and trespassing. The really threatening types would never go to a mosque to argue.

 

[Zoii]

Is Islam a False Religion?

This type of thread is an example to show how anti [insert another religion here] can be taken one step further to foster hostile thoughts towards people of another religion - then one step further again to start murder.

I would use the suffering we see in NZ as a beacon that shines a light on thoughts/comments that foster hate and vilification of another religion - and denounce such comments.

 

[FireDragon76]

According to most of the press in the US, the gunmen were motivated by the same sort of ideology that Anders Brevik was, a perception that they were a crusader for western and "Christian" culture.

Some pastors do encourage this sort of thing by wrapping islamaphobia in piety, but I think its more the fault of politicians who adopt the symbols and externalities of Christianity merely to pander to the right, polluting the religion with their fascist tendencies.

I know my own church repudiates the concept of crusade as an error of our Catholic past, but I don't think it penetrates into the culture as much as it should. And for many others, it is a potent symbol even if we are far removed from its medieval context.

 

[durangodawood]

errr guys - just for once - this isnt about America, American politics, or Americans. This is about NZ and the terrorist event there.

Not entirely.

I think the communities that develop these sort of terrorists are global. The shooter used USA based social media to stream his crime.

 

[Goonie]

Fury as Australian senator blames Christchurch attack on Muslim immigration
Australian senator blames victims, and states that New Zealand allowing Muslim extremists into the country is to blame.

 

[FireDragon76]

Fury as Australian senator blames Christchurch attack on Muslim immigration
Australian senator blames victims, and states that New Zealand allowing Muslim extremists into the country is to blame.

I guess I have been out of the loop. I was not aware Australia had a far right like that.

It's curious how a mostly irreligious country buys into xenophobia. I think it challenges the notion that a more secular society will lead to more sober-minded, liberal politics that certain "Brights" seem to proclaim.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Is Islam a False Religion?

This type of thread is an example to show how anti [insert another religion here] can be taken one step further to foster hostile thoughts towards people of another religion - then one step further again to start murder.

I would use the suffering we see in NZ as a beacon that shines a light on thoughts/comments that foster hate and vilification of another religion - and denounce such comments.

You or anyone else don't get to decide who or what we can be critical of. I am extremely hostile towards Islam and yet I would despise the treatment of Uyghyr Muslims by the Chinese government and also despise what this guy did in the Christchurch Mosque.

One person's actions does not condemn all others who might be sympathetic partially agree. Lest we condemn the left for Antifa or other violent fascist groups in the USA or the Bernie bro who shot a republican Senator last year. It's a two way streak and ultimately I think you are feeding into the stated purpose of what the Christchurch attacker wanted. He wanted to escalate the conflict between right and left.

 

[SummerMadness]

You or anyone else don't get to decide who or what we can be critical of. I am extremely hostile towards Islam and yet I would despise the treatment of Uyghyr Muslims by the Chinese government and also despise what this guy did in the Christchurch Mosque.

One person's actions does not condemn all others who might be sympathetic partially agree. Lest we condemn the left for Antifa or other violent fascist groups in the USA or the Bernie bro who shot a republican Senator last year. It's a two way streak and ultimately I think you are feeding into the stated purpose of what the Christchurch attacker wanted. He wanted to escalate the conflict between right and left.

That's a false both sides argument. Right-wing violence is by far a greater threat to life and liberty. There have been multiple studies done by government and non-government sources that demonstrate this. Every terrorist attack committed by a right-wing extremist or white nationalist is always followed by promoting the lie that antifa is just as violent. Right-wing extremists are taking lives, stop with the false narrative that there is another side that responds in kind.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

That's a false both sides argument. Right-wing violence is by far a greater threat to life and liberty. There have been multiple studies done by government and non-government sources that demonstrate this. Every terrorist attack committed by a right-wing extremist or white nationalist is always followed by promoting the lie that antifa is just as violent. Right-wing extremists are taking lives, stop with the false narrative that there is another side that responds in kind.

I'm not making a false narrative. I argued that we should not blame the entire left for what Antifa or a Bernie Bro does. Do you disagree?

 

[mala]

I'm not making a false narrative. I argued that we should not blame the entire left for what Antifa or a Bernie Bro does. Do you disagree?

You pretty much are doing a "both sides" spin.

 

[mala]

The general position I've seen thus far among the rank and file right has been that yes those people were horrible but it wouldn't have ever happened if not for multiculturalism.
Basically classic victim blaming.