New Zealand has now banned all military-style semi-automatic guns & assault rifles

[Go Braves]

New Zealand shooting: Jacinda Ardern bans all military-style semi-automatic guns and assault rifles – live updates

 

[Basil the Great]

I guess the NRA does not carry much clout in New Zealand.

 

[HTacianas]

New Zealand shooting: Jacinda Ardern bans all military-style semi-automatic guns and assault rifles – live updates

And now everyone feels good. Yay!

Next time some lunatic decides to shoot up a group of people he'll have to use a shotgun instead. Then they'll ban shotguns. Then next time someone will plow a truck through a group of people and they'll have to ban trucks. Then someone will drown a group of people in a bath tub and they'll have to ban water. And the next time...

No one has even attempted to solve the underlying problem nor even suggested what the underlying problem is.

 

[Ana the Ist]

And now everyone feels good. Yay!

Next time some lunatic decides to shoot up a group of people he'll have to use a shotgun instead. Then they'll ban shotguns. Then next time someone will plow a truck through a group of people and they'll have to ban trucks. Then someone will drown a group of people in a bath tub and they'll have to ban water. And the next time...

No one has even attempted to solve the underlying problem nor even suggested what the underlying problem is.

In fairness....that guy did kill a lot of people. It's not likely that so many would have died if he used a shotgun, or truck, and I don't think drowning them all in a bathtub is a realistic possibility.

 

[HTacianas]

In fairness....that guy did kill a lot of people. It's not likely that so many would have died if he used a shotgun, or truck, and I don't think drowning them all in a bathtub is a realistic possibility.

But why did he do it? We can't say that it was simply hate. There are a lot of people who hate a lot of other people for whatever reason or another but they don't pick up a gun and start shooting. Just as there are a lot of people who own guns but don't point them at other people and pull the trigger. I am certain that there are also a lot of people who hate other people and who also own guns, but their mix of hate and guns doesn't cause them to kill.

Things like this often remind me of the movie Apollo 13. They had a crisis and the only way they could solve it was to lock some people in a room until they found a solution to it. It seems that today we have a crisis and no one is willing to be locked in the room.

 

[FireDragon76]

I wonder how they concluded this was a realistic solution, considering this was a well-planned attack. Anders Brevik obtained his weapons on the black market and smuggled them into the country, for instance, circumventing Norway's gun laws.

 

[Ana the Ist]

But why did he do it? We can't say that it was simply hate.

Clearly he had a rather extreme view of the world.

There are a lot of people who hate a lot of other people for whatever reason or another but they don't pick up a gun and start shooting. Just as there are a lot of people who own guns but don't point them at other people and pull the trigger. I am certain that there are also a lot of people who hate other people and who also own guns, but their mix of hate and guns doesn't cause them to kill.

I'm sure you're right about this stuff...but I don't see your point.

Things like this often remind me of the movie Apollo 13. They had a crisis and the only way they could solve it was to lock some people in a room until they found a solution to it. It seems that today we have a crisis and no one is willing to be locked in the room.

What possible solution could exist for the problem of some people having violent and dangerous thoughts?

 

[High Fidelity]

I wonder how they concluded this was a realistic solution, considering this was a well-planned attack. Anders Brevik obtained his weapons on the black market and smuggled them into the country, for instance, circumventing Norway's gun laws.

I don't think there's any illusion that it will stop such events, just severely limit the occurrence.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

There is hardly any one solution. Reasonable gun control, regulating hate speech vs freedom of opinion, trying to prevent alienation, people having hope for their future and the like.

Banning guns is bit different from banning airplanes because the pilot decided to kill 300 people. Especially automatics and semi-automatics. You can defend yourself with handguns well enough or use rifles for hunting.

It is not like you are usually defending your home against squad of mobsters with bodyarmor, assault rifles and air support coming for your stereos.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't think there's any illusion that it will stop such events, just severely limit the occurrence.

So much for ruling a big country like frying a small fish, then.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

Things like this often remind me of the movie Apollo 13. They had a crisis and the only way they could solve it was to lock some people in a room until they found a solution to it. It seems that today we have a crisis and no one is willing to be locked in the room.

That was an engineering problem with nice mechanical solutions on very limited space (no pun intended).

Fixing people is tad more challenging.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I wonder how they concluded this was a realistic solution, considering this was a well-planned attack. Anders Brevik obtained his weapons on the black market and smuggled them into the country, for instance, circumventing Norway's gun laws.

I remember looking into that case...and you're right, he was able to circumvent gun laws. The thing is though, it wasn't easy....and it took him some time. It's possible that had his plans/actions merited more attention, he could've been stopped before it happened.

If however, they sold his weapons down the street....it would've been easier, faster, and possibly allowed him to do more harm.

I think the key here is to not look at this as a perfect solution that will forever prevent these things from happening at all....but rather a solution which will help prevent them from being as dangerous and happen less often.

 

[High Fidelity]

So much for ruling a big country like frying a small fish, then.

What do you propose?

Until we can effectively understand the driving psychological forces compelling people to undertake such acts, we can at least limit access to weapons that allow mass murder to be easy.

At least they're doing something.

 

[Ana the Ist]

There is hardly any one solution. Reasonable gun control, regulating hate speech vs freedom of opinion, trying to prevent alienation, people having hope for their future and the like.

I don't see "regulating hate speech" as a solution at all. I don't see how throwing people in jail for expressing an opinion will actually prevent people from having that opinion. What's worse is I don't see how it's going to change anything for those people once they leave jail.

Worst of all....throwing people in jail over words is....well, it's a horrible injustice that is hard to justify. The Las Vegas shooter, to my knowledge, never held any extremist views publicly expressed. One of the worst shooting sprees happened in South Korea....and it began with a domestic dispute.

Honestly, I'm more comfortable with 100 people dying this way every year than the idea of thousands incarcerated every year for writing or speaking the wrong words.

 

[FireDragon76]

What do you propose?

Until we can effectively understand the driving psychological forces compelling people to undertake such acts, we can at least limit access to weapons that allow mass murder to be easy.

At least they're doing something.

And that's precisely what I see as the problem. It seems disproportionate to the nature of the threat. Much better for New Zealand to increase spending on internal and international security and intelligence gathering.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

I don't see "regulating hate speech" as a solution at all. I don't see how throwing people in jail for expressing an opinion will actually prevent people from having that opinion. What's worse is I don't see how it's going to change anything for those people once they leave jail.

It is not meant to change anything for those people. It is meant to limit the effect they have on other people inclined for these kind of massacres. Same reason they are arresting or deporting Imams that incite hate against jews and promote armed Jihad for example.

Also not everyone convicted of hate speech automatically goes to jail. Fines are one way to notify you that society finds your hate mongering to be over the limit.

Free speech is fine thing but it is not a carte blanche to say anything you want in public.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

But why did he do it? We can't say that it was simply hate. There are a lot of people who hate a lot of other people for whatever reason or another but they don't pick up a gun and start shooting. Just as there are a lot of people who own guns but don't point them at other people and pull the trigger. I am certain that there are also a lot of people who hate other people and who also own guns, but their mix of hate and guns doesn't cause them to kill.

Things like this often remind me of the movie Apollo 13. They had a crisis and the only way they could solve it was to lock some people in a room until they found a solution to it. It seems that today we have a crisis and no one is willing to be locked in the room.

He was deranged.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I wonder how many New Zealanders now possess illegal weapons that they will not relinquish. This creates a whole new class of criminals.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I wonder how many New Zealanders now possess illegal weapons that they will not relinquish. This creates a whole new class of criminals.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...gun-owners-surrender-guns-christchurch-attack

Answer: a lot. As of yesterday, according to BuzzFeed, NZ police say only 37 have been turned in nationwide.

.

 

[bhsmte]

So what is your solution to the problem?

I agree with banning these types of weapons, because they simply allow more people to be killed, in a short period of time.

I will admit, it is a bit of a bandaid approach, but it would save lives, when someone is not able to get one of these types of weapons and wants to kill people.

The core issue here, is much deeper than just guns and is related to mental health and cultures in different countries. We are dealing with human beings and there will always be some who lose it, and want to kill as many people as possible and they will use whatever means they come up with.