New World Order and feminism

[morningstar2651]

Um, by men, maybe.Being interested in the welfare of a subgroup of humanity is not inherently chauvinistic or unreasonable. I care about issues affecting Australian veterans, for example, because I am one. That doesn't mean I'm prejudiced against anyone who isn't.

Homicide statistics are broken up by victim offender sex on page 9 of this report: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

• Male offender/male victim: 67.8% of homicides
• Female offender/male victim: 9.0% of homicides

I'm sure there are similar statistics on assault if we search for them there, but the numbers don't paint a picture that women and feminists are assaulting men.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Being interested in the welfare of a subgroup of humanity is not inherently chauvinistic or unreasonable.

When it becomes an extreme and consequential conflict of interest, it most certainly is. When you have women themselves stepping up to the plate denouncing feminism then it's high time to start paying attention to the other end.

But even that isn't the real sign for such, the REAL signal is when you start to realize that there isn't really anything substantial in feminism. It doesn't achieve anything because it isn't actually producing anything but problems.
In all actuality, the list of unfair benefits that women have far outweigh those that men may have.

For example, you brought up violent crime- well, men are sitting in jail right now for things that women do all the time. A lot of women feel they are entitled to putting their hands on men, and they typically get away with it. This is not the case for men. And in the event a woman does get prosecuted, she's only going to get a vestige of the penalty a man would get.
In fact, courts are altogether more lenient towards women in any type of case.

But as I said, because feminism only pertains to the problems women face, that example is completely ignored- even though unlike most of what feminism obsesses about, that is an ACTUAL PROBLEM.

 

[morningstar2651]

When it becomes an extreme and consequential conflict of interest, it most certainly is. When you have women themselves stepping up to the plate denouncing feminism then it's high time to start paying attention to the other end.

But even that isn't the real sign for such, the REAL signal is when you start to realize that there isn't really anything substantial in feminism. It doesn't achieve anything because it isn't actually producing anything but problems.
In all actuality, the list of unfair benefits that women have far outweigh those that men may have.

For example, you brought up violent crime- well, men are sitting in jail right now for things that women do all the time. A lot of women feel they are entitled to putting their hands on men, and they typically get away with it. This is not the case for men. And in the event a woman does get prosecuted, she's only going to get a vestige of the penalty a man would get.
In fact, courts are altogether more lenient towards women in any type of case.

But as I said, because feminism only pertains to the problems women face, that example is completely ignored- even though unlike most of what feminism obsesses about, that is an ACTUAL PROBLEM.

What conflict of interest do you speak of? What is "the other end"? Which women denounce feminism and why? What problems does feminism produce? Which unfair benefits do women have and which unfair benefits do men have? Do you have evidence that women are assaulting men and getting away with it? Do you oppose the pro-life movement as strongly as you oppose feminism because they don't focus on women that assault men and get away with it? What percentage of men are assaulted by women and/or feminists? Are feminists the reason men are more likely to be victims of assault? Do you have a citation for this statistic? Which feminists say misandry doesn't exist? Can you name some women's issues you believe are imaginary and/or inescapable? Are you being vague because you don't know what issues feminists care about? Which men are being assaulted and who is assaulting them? What about human nature are feminists attempting to repeal? Which stereotypes are feminists commending and rebuking?

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

I refuse to reply to posts which are a literal cluster of nothing but questions, as above^
*just throwing that out there

 

[Armoured]

When it becomes an extreme and consequential conflict of interest, it most certainly is. When you have women themselves stepping up to the plate denouncing feminism then it's high time to start paying attention to the other end.

But even that isn't the real sign for such, the REAL signal is when you start to realize that there isn't really anything substantial in feminism. It doesn't achieve anything because it isn't actually producing anything but problems.
In all actuality, the list of unfair benefits that women have far outweigh those that men may have.

For example, you brought up violent crime- well, men are sitting in jail right now for things that women do all the time. A lot of women feel they are entitled to putting their hands on men, and they typically get away with it. This is not the case for men. And in the event a woman does get prosecuted, she's only going to get a vestige of the penalty a man would get.
In fact, courts are altogether more lenient towards women in any type of case.

But as I said, because feminism only pertains to the problems women face, that example is completely ignored- even though unlike most of what feminism obsesses about, that is an ACTUAL PROBLEM.

In reply, I invite you to answer any of Morningstar's excellent and on point questions. I've not seen any feminists doing any of the things you seem to be suggesting they do.

 

[morningstar2651]

I refuse to reply to posts which are a literal cluster of nothing but questions
*just throwing that out there

Why do you avoid my questions? Do you not have good answers for any of my questions? What conflict of interest do you speak of? What is "the other end"? Which women denounce feminism and why? What problems does feminism produce? Which unfair benefits do women have and which unfair benefits do men have? Do you have evidence that women are assaulting men and getting away with it? Do you oppose the pro-life movement as strongly as you oppose feminism because they don't focus on women that assault men and get away with it? What percentage of men are assaulted by women and/or feminists? Are feminists the reason men are more likely to be victims of assault? Do you have a citation for this statistic? Which feminists say misandry doesn't exist? Can you name some women's issues you believe are imaginary and/or inescapable? Are you being vague because you don't know what issues feminists care about? Which men are being assaulted and who is assaulting them? What about human nature are feminists attempting to repeal? Which stereotypes are feminists commending and rebuking?

 

[Armoured]

And further, while I agree with you that judicial double standards between the treatment of male and female criminals IS unjust, I'm not sure why you think this is a feminist issue, rather than, say, a matter of legal reform?

 

[morningstar2651]

In reply, I invite you to answer any of Morningstar's excellent and on point questions. I've not seen any feminists doing any of the things you seem to be suggesting they do.

I've seen a lot of vague accusations of assault and abuse in this thread, but these accusations all have lacked details and evidence which is what I keep requesting. I'm beginning to think that the evidence to support his claims simply doesn't exist.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

I've seen a lot of vague accusations of assault and abuse in this thread, but these accusations all have lacked details and evidence which is what I keep requesting. I'm beginning to think that the evidence to support his claims simply doesn't exist.

The very fact that you know all the statistics and literature within feminism but never looked at anything else proves a point I made earlier: that feminists are only concerned about the issues that women face.

 

[morningstar2651]

The very fact that you know all the statistics and literature within feminism but never looked at anything else proves a point I made earlier: that feminists are only concerned about the issues that women face.

What literature and statistics do you believe I am familiar with and how does that prove that feminists are concerned with women's issues to the exclusion of men's issues, race issues, socio-economic issues, or moral issues? Why do you avoid my questions? What conflict of interest do you speak of? What is "the other end"? Which women denounce feminism and why? What problems does feminism produce? Which unfair benefits do women have and which unfair benefits do men have? Do you have evidence that women are assaulting men and getting away with it? Do you oppose the pro-life movement as strongly as you oppose feminism because they don't focus on women that assault men and get away with it? What percentage of men are assaulted by women and/or feminists? Are feminists the reason men are more likely to be victims of assault? Do you have a citation for this statistic? Which feminists say misandry doesn't exist? Can you name some women's issues you believe are imaginary and/or inescapable? Are you being vague because you don't know what issues feminists care about? Which men are being assaulted and who is assaulting them? What about human nature are feminists attempting to repeal? Which stereotypes are feminists commending and rebuking?

 

[Armoured]

The very fact that you know all the statistics and literature within feminism but never looked at anything else proves a point I made earlier: that feminists are only concerned about the issues that women face.

Yeah? What's wrong with being concerned over a subgroup of issues? Feminists care about women's issues. I care about veterans' issues. Are either invalid because they focus on one area?

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Yeah? What's wrong with being concerned over a subgroup of issues? Feminists care about women's issues. I care about veterans' issues. Are either invalid because they focus on one area?

Because to not be a feminist has been called inherent misogyny, marked by the idea that feminism simply means 'equality' and that if you don't hate women you are a feminist.
Talk about self-serving: so any man with integrity must label himself a 'feminist', pertaining themselves to women. Why would a man want anything to do with that?

 

[jayem]

When it becomes an extreme and consequential conflict of interest, it most certainly is. When you have women themselves stepping up to the plate denouncing feminism then it's high time to start paying attention to the other end.

But even that isn't the real sign for such, the REAL signal is when you start to realize that there isn't really anything substantial in feminism. It doesn't achieve anything because it isn't actually producing anything but problems.
In all actuality, the list of unfair benefits that women have far outweigh those that men may have.

For example, you brought up violent crime- well, men are sitting in jail right now for things that women do all the time. A lot of women feel they are entitled to putting their hands on men, and they typically get away with it. This is not the case for men. And in the event a woman does get prosecuted, she's only going to get a vestige of the penalty a man would get.
In fact, courts are altogether more lenient towards women in any type of case.

But as I said, because feminism only pertains to the problems women face, that example is completely ignored- even though unlike most of what feminism obsesses about, that is an ACTUAL PROBLEM.

If you think men are getting shafted, you should be most concerned about this:

Even in the STEM fields, where men still predominate, women are starting to move in. The most consistent predictor of lifetime economic success is one's level of educational attainment. It hasn't happened yet, but women will eventually out-earn men. And I think most of the fault is on men themselves. The women's rights movement created opportunities, which women have commendably seized upon. But a lot of men, for some reason, seem to have given up on educating themselves for a 21st century economy.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Even in the STEM fields, where men still predominate, women are starting to move in. The most consistent predictor of lifetime economic success is one's level of educational attainment. It hasn't happened yet, but women will eventually out-earn men. And I think most of the fault is on men themselves. The women's rights movement created opportunities, which women have commendably seized upon. But a lot of men, for some reason, seem to have given up on educating themselves for a 21st century economy.

As it is now, men tend to out earn women early on and then, much later, women tend to earn as much or even more than them. It conquers the feminist myth that there is some systematic pay gap between men and women. It's illegal to have such anyway; it was always a lie. People believing otherwise look at these apparent statistics that ultimately show nothing more than that women simply choose lower paying jobs.
But of course it couldn't be that, right? It's the *Patriarchy*

I think I might have to disagree a bit on education being the best predictor for this century, however. I think it's starting to shift a little bit into something else due in part, ironically, by the economy itself- men may be opting out of college because it's costs just don't outweigh the prize- men, unlike most women, are willing to go in the direction of the labor trades. Which isn't exactly suit and briefcase, but in the event of women not going to college they're likely to be wearing an apron.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

And further, while I agree with you that judicial double standards between the treatment of male and female criminals IS unjust, I'm not sure why you think this is a feminist issue, rather than, say, a matter of legal reform?

It has everything to do with the fact that feminists are saying equality has not been achieved, yet you have things such as that which goes beyond equality and right into textbook favoritism.

What exactly is their to support in feminism? The pay gap has been exposed for it is in the above posts. Rape is illegal, assault is illegal, sexual objectification is a part of human nature as everyone including women do it- the rest of the feminist agenda is basically pointless, specious nonsense!

And if it's causing problems, then it needs to be rightfully balled up and thrown in the garbage bin.

 

[crjmurray]

It has everything to do with the fact that feminists are saying equality has not been achieved, yet you have things such as that which goes beyond equality and right into textbook favoritism.

Yeah!!!! It's aaaaall about equality until the check hits the dinner table, amirite fellas?!?!?! (Tips fedora, winks, smooths out button up anime shirt, collapses in on himself in a black hole because the universe cannot handle this many cliches) shananananananana.......

 

[morningstar2651]

Because to not be a feminist has been called inherent misogyny, marked by the idea that feminism simply means 'equality' and that if you don't hate women you are a feminist.
Talk about self-serving: so any man with integrity must label himself a 'feminist', pertaining themselves to women. Why would a man want anything to do with that?

It has everything to do with the fact that feminists are saying equality has not been achieved, yet you have things such as that which goes beyond equality and right into textbook favoritism.

What exactly is their to support in feminism? The pay gap has been exposed for it is in the above posts. Rape is illegal, assault is illegal, sexual objectification is a part of human nature as everyone including women do it- the rest of the feminist agenda is basically pointless, specious nonsense!

And if it's causing problems, then it needs to be rightfully balled up and thrown in the garbage bin.

The queue of questions you're avoiding is getting a bit long. I'll convert it into a numbered list to make it easier for you to respond to.

1. Do you believe men and women have achieved equality?
2. Do you believe men and women should have equal rights?
3. Are all the things you've read or watched about feminism only written by people who oppose feminism?
4. What literature and statistics do you believe I am familiar with and how does that prove that feminists are concerned with women's issues to the exclusion of men's issues, race issues, socio-economic issues, or moral issues?
5. Why do you avoid my questions?
6. What conflict of interest do you speak of?
7. What is "the other end"?
8. Which women denounce feminism and why?
9. What problems does feminism produce?
10. Which unfair benefits do women have and which unfair benefits do men have?
11. Do you have evidence that women are assaulting men and getting away with it?
12. Do you oppose the pro-life movement as strongly as you oppose feminism because they don't focus on women that assault men and get away with it?
13. What percentage of men are assaulted by women and/or feminists?
14. Are feminists the reason men are more likely to be victims of assault?
15. Do you have a citation for this statistic?
16. Which feminists say misandry doesn't exist?
17. Can you name some women's issues you believe are imaginary and/or inescapable?
18. Are you being vague because you don't know what issues feminists care about?
19. Which men are being assaulted and who is assaulting them?
20. What about human nature are feminists attempting to repeal?
21. Which stereotypes are feminists commending and rebuking?

 

[Armoured]

Because to not be a feminist has been called inherent misogyny, marked by the idea that feminism simply means 'equality' and that if you don't hate women you are a feminist.
Talk about self-serving: so any man with integrity must label himself a 'feminist', pertaining themselves to women. Why would a man want anything to do with that?

Um, why wouldn't he? I regard myself as a feminist, because I support equality. What's the problem?

 

[Armoured]

It has everything to do with the fact that feminists are saying equality has not been achieved, yet you have things such as that which goes beyond equality and right into textbook favoritism.

What exactly is their to support in feminism? The pay gap has been exposed for it is in the above posts. Rape is illegal, assault is illegal, sexual objectification is a part of human nature as everyone including women do it- the rest of the feminist agenda is basically pointless, specious nonsense!

And if it's causing problems, then it needs to be rightfully balled up and thrown in the garbage bin.

Rape et al IS illegal. Yet they are crimes that predominantly effect women. That to me suggests feminism has a valid point. At this point it's about societal change.

As for "causing problems", yoiu've been asked repeatedly for some concrete examples of such, but are yet to provide any. What "problems"?

 

[crjmurray]

The queue of questions you're avoiding is getting a bit long. I'll convert it into a numbered list to make it easier for you to respond to.

1. Do you believe men and women have achieved equality?
2. Do you believe men and women should have equal rights?
3. Are all the things you've read or watched about feminism only written by people who oppose feminism?
4. What literature and statistics do you believe I am familiar with and how does that prove that feminists are concerned with women's issues to the exclusion of men's issues, race issues, socio-economic issues, or moral issues?
5. Why do you avoid my questions?
6. What conflict of interest do you speak of?
7. What is "the other end"?
8. Which women denounce feminism and why?
9. What problems does feminism produce?
10. Which unfair benefits do women have and which unfair benefits do men have?
11. Do you have evidence that women are assaulting men and getting away with it?
12. Do you oppose the pro-life movement as strongly as you oppose feminism because they don't focus on women that assault men and get away with it?
13. What percentage of men are assaulted by women and/or feminists?
14. Are feminists the reason men are more likely to be victims of assault?
15. Do you have a citation for this statistic?
16. Which feminists say misandry doesn't exist?
17. Can you name some women's issues you believe are imaginary and/or inescapable?
18. Are you being vague because you don't know what issues feminists care about?
19. Which men are being assaulted and who is assaulting them?
20. What about human nature are feminists attempting to repeal?
21. Which stereotypes are feminists commending and rebuking?

I'll take a crack.

1. Equal before the law but not socially.

2. Yes.

3. No. For, against, and neutral.

4. I don't know but you seem sharper than the average lightbulb around these parts.

5. Hey, whoa! Cmon! I think I'm doing a pretty good job for someone that these questions weren't addressed to.

6. I dunno.

7. I dunno.

8. This is purely anecdotal, but I have middle aged and older women in my family who believe that a woman's place is on the home. I have a small number of female friends that feel the same way. My own girlfriend is quite "domestic". However, that does not change the fact that these or other women should have the right/opportunity to pursue other interests.

9. In some instances it can create "sides" but the overall effect is beneficial so who cares.

10. Women as juveniles are actually treated far harsher by our juvenile justice system. We as a society seem to believe that women should behave a certain way where as with boys we have a "boys will be boys attitude". Men generally have the advantage when it comes to our modern society.

11. Evidence? No. The issue with this claim comes down to providing a statistic that is hard to nail down. In a situation where a woman slaps/hits/pushes a man, that man is more unlikely to contact law enforcement than if the situation were reversed. This is due to multiple reasons. One, the societal stigma of a man claiming he was assaulted by a woman. Two, the actual harm that is caused against the man. And three, the actual harm that the woman COULD cause against the man. If my best friends 90lb wife slaps him there is no risk to his well being. If he slaps her then she stands the risk of serious bodily harm. So we're talking about a statistic of an unreported event that we KNOW occurs just not how much. Not as much as the fedoras would have you believe I'm sure.

12. I plead the fifth on abortion due to ignorance.

13. I dunno.

14. Ahahahahaha no.

15. See above.

16. I'm sure there are some but I can't say who.

17. Vaginadentata. Imaginary because it doesn't exist. Inescapable because somewhere out there, a group of people think it exists.

18. I think I've been very specific!

19. Males 18-25 by......males 18-25.

20. I dunno.

21. They're probably rebuking this one