New Testament Promises of Israel’s Restoration

[Biblewriter]

I welcome a reasoned rebuttal of any part of my commentary.

The initial observation is that of your abandonment of your repeated claims of literality. For Matthew and Luke refer exclusively to literal Jerusalem, and literal Jerusalem is a literal city. Thus your reference to the city as “multi-generational” is immediately illiteral and metaphorical.

I already gave “a reasoned response” to this completely incorrect statement. But to expand on what I said before, you are entirely correct in observing that Jesus spoke of the literal city of Jerusalem. But while a group of buildings, streets and public areas, usually (in those days) surrounded by a wall, is sometimes called a city, the real city is the people occupying those buildings, and using those streets and public areas. And this is the sense in which Jesus referred to Jerusalem. For buildings, streets, and public areas, cannot kill “the prophets” and stone “those who are sent to her,” as Jesus said of this ancient and wicked city. Nor can it have “children,” as Jesus also said.

But as, during the current generation, Jerusalem had killed only one prophet, rather than multiple “prophets,” and had stoned no one, the statement Jesus made most certainly referred to both past and present generations of the people inhabiting that city. And as the people of that city, as a whole, have not, even yet, said, “blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord,” The statement of Jesus unquestionably also included a generation of those people that was far into the future.

So there can be zero doubt that Jesus was literally speaking of Jerusalem in a multi-generational sense. And there is nothing even remotely illiteral or metaphorical in this observation.

But since Christ was of course referring metaphorically to the city's inhabitants in the Old Covenant era, rather than the literal city itself, let us examine who those inhabitants were. We know that, spiritually, they would have fallen into two categories: those who were faithful to the Old Covenant and had not “bowed the knee to Baal”; and those who were unfaithful to the Old Covenant and had rebelled against its own requirements of faith and obedience.

Who then “killed the prophets and stoned those who were sent to her”? Obviously Christ is referring to the unfaithful.

Who were unwilling to be gathered? Obviously the unfaithful.

Whose house was left to them desolate? Obviously the unfaithful. By the time of the Roman invasion, the gospel had been penetrating Jerusalem for over 30 years and the Christian Church was surviving if not thriving. History records that all of the Christian believers fled Jerusalem and Judea prior to the invasion and escaped with their lives. Only the unfaithful were left.

Their house was left to them desolate.

Here, in pursuing your illogic that calling the people of a city by the name of that city, you miss the fact that “the unfaithful” that you are stressing is the overwhelming majority of the prople in the city, which is why Jesus called these unfaithful ones “Jerusalem.” But this error only led you to the next major error you made.

Their house was not “left to them desolate” when the Romans destroyed the temple. It was left to them desolate when the Lord God of their fathers, none other than Jesus Himself, walked out of the temple, denying that it was His house, as He had often called it in the past, and calling it “your house.” And that is what was explicitly stated in the very next sentence after the Matthew passage, which is the last three verses of Matthew 23. For the very next words are, “Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple.” (Matthew 24:1a - remember that the chapter and verse divisions were added by man, long after the Holy Spirit inspired these words. So Matther 24:1 in the very next sentence after Matthew 23:39.)

And Jesus never returned to that temple, although many scriptures clearly stste that He will return to a future temple.

When Christ returns the second final time, we are told:

Here you add a rank assumption on your part, that the return of Jesus is His “final” return. You cannot demonstrate even one scripture that says this, or even implies it.

Philippians 2
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

At that time, every human being who has ever lived, saint and sinner, believer and unbeliever, faithful and unfaithful, Israelite and non-Israelite, Jerusalemite and non-Jerusalemite, alike; will confess “Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord”. There will be no ethnic distinctions which will characterize that confession. It will be universal.

This is also a rank assumption, based entirely on your chosen interpretation of various other scriptures. There is not even one scripture, anywhere in the entire Bible, that says, or even implies, that this will happen at the time Jesus returns.

But this is not only a purely unfounded assumption. It is exactly the opposite of what the scriptures clearly and ecplicitly declare will happen when the great Messiah returns. For the nations of the world will muster very large armies and come against Him, in a vain attempt to defeat Him. But He will destroy them. This is plainly declared in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.

And Revelation 20 explicitly says that the resurrection of the wicked will NOT take place at that time, but only after a delay of one thousand years. And even if you were correct that the term “a thousand years” only ,eans “a long time,” the effect on your theory would still be the same. The scriptures explicitly say that the resurrection of the wicked dead will not take place until a long time after Christ returns.

The only “multi-generational” references in Christ's discourse are found here:

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

This discourse is a scathing indictment of the unbelieving and unfaithful within the Jerusalem of that day and past days, the prediction of the judgment and fate that would soon befall the generation of that day, and of the confession of all inhabitants of the whole earth upon Christ's return.

It is singularly devoid of anything to do with any restoration of Israel.

I have already demonstrated the complete error of all of this.

 

[BABerean2]

And Revelation 20 explicitly says that the resurrection of the wicked will NOT take place at that time, but only after a delay of one thousand years.

Revelation 11:18

(CJB) "The Goyim raged. But now your rage has come, the time for the dead to be judged, the time for rewarding your servants the prophets and your holy people, those who stand in awe of your name, both small and great. It is also the time for destroying those who destroy the earth."

(ESV) The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

(Geneva) And the Gentiles were angrie, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they shoulde be iudged, and that thou shouldest giue reward vnto thy seruants the Prophets, and to the Saintes, and to them that feare thy Name, to small and great, and shouldest destroy them, which destroy the earth.

(GW) The nations were angry, but your anger has come. The time has come for the dead to be judged: to reward your servants, the prophets, your holy people, and those who fear your name, no matter if they are important or unimportant, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

(LITV-TSP) And the nations were full of wrath; and Your wrath came, and the time of the judging of the dead, and to give the reward to Your slaves, to the prophets, and to the saints, and to the ones fearing Your name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those destroying the earth.

(KJV) And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

(KJV+) AndG2532 theG3588 nationsG1484 were angry,G3710 andG2532 thyG4675 wrathG3709 is come,G2064 andG2532 theG3588 timeG2540 of theG3588 dead,G3498 that they should be judged,G2919 andG2532 that thou shouldest giveG1325 rewardG3408 unto thyG4675 servantsG1401 theG3588 prophets,G4396 andG2532 to theG3588 saints,G40 andG2532 them that fearG5399 thyG4675 name,G3686 smallG3398 andG2532 great;G3173 andG2532 shouldest destroyG1311 them which destroyG1311 theG3588 earth.G1093

(NKJV) The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

(YLT) and the nations were angry, and Thine anger did come, and the time of the dead, to be judged, and to give the reward to Thy servants, to the prophets, and to the saints, and to those fearing Thy name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those who are destroying the land.'

.

 

[seventysevens]

AFTER 1000 years of satan being imprisoned

(Geneva)
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the people, which are in the four quarters of the earth: even Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the Sea.

9 And they went up into the plain of the earth, and they compassed the tents of the Saints about, and the beloved city: but fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.




















(GenevaQUOTE="BABerean2, post: 72155478, member: 353202"]Revelation 11:18

(CJB) "The Goyim raged. But now your rage has come, the time for the dead to be judged, the time for rewarding your servants the prophets and your holy people, those who stand in awe of your name, both small and great. It is also the time for destroying those who destroy the earth."

(ESV) The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth."

(Geneva) And the Gentiles were angrie, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they shoulde be iudged, and that thou shouldest giue reward vnto thy seruants the Prophets, and to the Saintes, and to them that feare thy Name, to small and great, and shouldest destroy them, which destroy the earth.

(GW) The nations were angry, but your anger has come. The time has come for the dead to be judged: to reward your servants, the prophets, your holy people, and those who fear your name, no matter if they are important or unimportant, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

(LITV-TSP) And the nations were full of wrath; and Your wrath came, and the time of the judging of the dead, and to give the reward to Your slaves, to the prophets, and to the saints, and to the ones fearing Your name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those destroying the earth.

(KJV) And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

(KJV+) AndG2532 theG3588 nationsG1484 were angry,G3710 andG2532 thyG4675 wrathG3709 is come,G2064 andG2532 theG3588 timeG2540 of theG3588 dead,G3498 that they should be judged,G2919 andG2532 that thou shouldest giveG1325 rewardG3408 unto thyG4675 servantsG1401 theG3588 prophets,G4396 andG2532 to theG3588 saints,G40 andG2532 them that fearG5399 thyG4675 name,G3686 smallG3398 andG2532 great;G3173 andG2532 shouldest destroyG1311 them which destroyG1311 theG3588 earth.G1093

(NKJV) The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

(YLT) and the nations were angry, and Thine anger did come, and the time of the dead, to be judged, and to give the reward to Thy servants, to the prophets, and to the saints, and to those fearing Thy name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those who are destroying the land.'

.[/QUOTE]

 

[Davy]

Many people imagine that the many scriptural promises of a future restoration of Israel, both to her ancient homeland and to her God, are contained only in the Old Testament and no longer apply. But it is not only the Old Testament that declares that Israel will eventually be restored. The New Testament also teaches this, both in the direct words of our Lord himself, and in the words of the Holy Spirit, given through the Apostles. We read, for instance, that Jesus said:

“37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” (Matthew 23:37-39)

And:

“34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! 35 See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” (Luke 13:34-35)

We need to notice what was addressed here. These words were not addressed to the individuals standing around. Nor were they addressed to the priests that had rejected Him. Nor to the Pharisees and Sadducees. They were addressed, and specifically addressed, to a city, Jerusalem. Jesus said, “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!” (And in both passages, the wording of this sentence is identical.) The fact that Jesus accused Jerusalem of killing “the prophets” and of stoning “those who are sent to her,” Jesus was unquestionably addressing the city of Jerusalem in a multi-generational sense.

Why is this important? Because Jesus did not say that Jerusalem would see Him no more “unless” they said “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!” He said it would see Him no more “till” or “until” until it said this. The Greek word translated “till” in Matthew 23:39 is the same one translated “until” in Luke 13:35. This is the Greek word “heos” (word number 2193 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary.) In the KJV, this Greek word is translated “till” 39 times, “until” 25 times, “unto” 27 times, and “to” 16 times. This Greek word does not imply that the event referred to “might” happen. It implies that the event “will” eventually happen. This is not interpretation. It is the basic meaning of the Greek word used in these two scriptures. So Jesus was unquestionably saying that there was a time coming, in which this wicked and rebellious city would finally say, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!” (And again, in this sentence as well, the wording of both of these passages is identical.)

So from these two passages alone, we know that there will be a day when Jerusalem will say, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!” This would be plain even if no other passage spoke of it. But that is not all we see in these passages. We also see, in the words of our Lord Jesus himself, that although Israel is now rejected, that rejection is only temporary, and will end when they finally say “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord”

Again, we read:

“24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24)

And:

“25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” (Romans 11:25)

As in the case of Matthew 23:39 and Luke 13:35, the Greek word translated “until” in these two passages is also the same. But for these two passages, the Greek word is “achri.” (word number 891 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary) In the KJV, this word is translated “until” 16 times, “unto” 13 times, “till” 6 times, and “even to” 2 times. (It is also translated “while” 2 times, but only if accompanied by the Greek word “hos,” word number 3739 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary, which means “who,” “which,” “what,” or “that.”)

But again, we need to notice the subject of these two pronouncements. The first pronouncement is, as in the first two passages we noticed, about the city of Jerusalem. Now some want to pretend that the words, “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled,” refer to the events of A.D.70, when the Romans sacked Jerusalem. There can be zero doubt that the entire preceding part of this paragraph referred to this time. For it says:

“20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles.” (Luke 21:20-24a)

But we need to notice that the time specified by the words “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” does not end at the fall of Jerusalem. Instead of ending at that time, it begins at that time, running forward to an undefined later time. (I speak here only of the specific wording of this sentence. For the ending of that time is indeed specified, and clearly specified, in other scriptures.) So again this statement, which speaks of the city of Jerusalem over a period of time that is not defined in this passage, is again speaking of that city in a multi-generational sense.

But what of the second of the two pronouncements we are currently discussing? In Romans 11:25 we read that “blindness in part has happened to Israel.” Now many want to insist that in the New Testament, “Israel” means “the church.” But this passage is clearly not saying that “blindness in part” has happened to “the church.” Such an idea would be contrary to many other scriptures, such as John 16:13, where we read, “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth.” So this passage is clearly speaking of the physical nation of Israel.

This is indeed made crystal clear when the entirety of this very long passage is considered. For it begins three chapters earlier by clearly speaking of Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites.” (Romans 9:3-4a) So this pronouncement is very unquestionably about the nation of Israel. And it unquestionably speaks of a judicial “ blindness” inflicted upon that ancient and evil nation. But that “blindness”is is only “in part,” and this “blindness” is unquestionably temporary. For rather than being permanent, it is only “until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” And this word “until” clearly speaks of a time when that Judicial blindness will end. It could hardly be more obvious that this time has not yet come, for the vast bulk is that nation remains partially blinded to spiritual truth, even to the present day. But when “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,” that judicially inflicted blindness will come to an end.

When Luke 21:24 and Romans 11:25 are examined together, it becomes obvious that they both refer to the same time, that is, that the time when “the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled,” or the time when “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” So we see that both of these passages say, in one case, that “Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles,” or, in the other case, “Israel” is inflicted with a judicial “blindness,” until that time. And that time is when “the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled,” or when “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.”

Both of the two Greek words translated “till” or “until” in these four passages, clearly indicate a temporary condition, that will have a distinctive ending. Their difference is that “heos,” which is used in Matthew 23:39 and Luke 13:35, stresses that the condition described will continue until the time is reached, while “achri,” which is used in Luke 21:24 and Romans 11:25, stresses that the condition described will end at a specific time.

So now we have seen four different places in the New Testament, all of which clearly show that the current rejection of Israel is only temporary, and that it will end at a specific time, which is still future even now, nearly two thousand years since these pronouncements were made.

But now we need to go back and re-consider the last of these four passages we have noticed.

“25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” (Romans 11:25)

For this passage continues as follows:

“26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ‘The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.’ 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:26-29)

The context of this entire passage, Romans 11:25-29, existing as it does in immediate connection with verse 25, highlights its unified message. The judicial “blindness” inflicted upon Israel is only temporary, “and so all Israel will be saved.” “For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.” Between these statements we read that even though “they are enemies for your sakes,” they yet remain “beloved for the sake of the fathers.” That is, this passage is not speaking of that portion of Israel that has come to faith in Crist, but of that portion of that ancient and rebellious nation that have rejected the message of the gospel. This is the context of both the statement that “all Israel will be saved” and the statement that “the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.” This message is stated so clearly that nothing but prejudice can keep a person from understanding it.

Well, it depends on what the word "is"... means.

I jest. I think the KJV Scripture text is clear enough, even in translation from the Greek, to know that Jesus was speaking about the Jerusalem at His return, because from the OT prophets is where the prophecy originates (Ps.118:26 & Matt.21:9).

 

[Davy]

And finally, there is one more New Testament scripture that mentions this future restoration of Israel.
“27Then Peter answered and said to Him, ‘See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?’ 28So Jesus said to them, ‘Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.’ ” (Matthew 19:27-28)

The Greek word here translated “regeneration” is “paliggenesia.” (word number 3824 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary) In the Greek this is a compound word made by connecting the Greek word “palin,” (word number 3825 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which means “once more,” and the Greek word “genesis,” (word number1078 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which means “nativity,” or “birth.” So once again, this word clearly speaks of a time of restoration, not a time of destruction. But in this time the twelve Apostles “will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” Thus we clearly read, in the New Testament, of a future rebirth, in which the twelve apostles will judge “the twelve tribes of Israel.” Not just Judah, but all twelve tribes, just as repeatedly promised in the Old Testament.

So in conclusion, there is simply no rational escape from the fact that, not just the Old Testament, but also the New Testament, clearly and repeatedly states that there is a time coming in the future, in which the ancient nation of Israel will be restored.

You're not going to get many to understand this; too many brethren today are still struggling with their own... identity instead of trying to understand what all is encompassed in God's Israel through His Son Jesus Christ. Most Churches today don't even teach prophecy from the OT unless it's directly related to Jesus' first coming, or some thing they can try to show has already been fulfilled.

 

[Biblewriter]

You're not going to get many to understand this; too many brethren today are still struggling with their own... identity instead of trying to understand what all is encompassed in God's Israel through His Son Jesus Christ. Most Churches today don't even teach prophecy from the OT unless it's directly related to Jesus' first coming, or some thing they can try to show has already been fulfilled.

Sad, but true.

These people neglect the fact that prophecy occupies a full third of everything God has said to us. I know most people say a fourth, but they are neglecting the Psalms as prophecy. And many New Testament passages explicitly state that certain Psalms are prophecy. When we include the Psalms as prophecy, the prophetic portions of the Bible total one third of the total message God gave us.

 

[BABerean2]

You're not going to get many to understand this; too many brethren today are still struggling with their own... identity instead of trying to understand what all is encompassed in God's Israel through His Son Jesus Christ.

And much of this struggle is the failure to realize that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

The understanding above connects the Old Testament to the New Testament.
As a matter of fact the books written during the first century contained between the first page of Matthew's Gospel and the last page of the Book of Revelation are about this New Covenant promised in the Book of Jeremiah.

When the Church first began almost all of its members were Israelites, as found in Acts 2:36.
The Gentiles were not grafted into the Church to any large degree until about 3 years after Paul's conversion.

I understand my identity which is revealed by Matthew 1:1, Galatians 3:16, and Galatians 3:28-29.

The same is found in Galatians 6:15-16.

Those who fail to recognize the fulfillment of the New Covenant will continue to be in error.

.

 

[jgr]

Their house was not “left to them desolate” when the Romans destroyed the temple.

Correct. It was left to them desolate when Jerusalem in its entirety was destroyed.


Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand...

Luke 21:20
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.


Luke clarifies that the whole of Jerusalem would be made desolate, consistent with the scope of Christ's predictions in Matthew 23.

 

[jgr]

And many New Testament passages explicitly state that certain Psalms are prophecy.

Correct. Explicitly fulfilled prophecy.

Luke 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

 

[Blade]

Hmm I see a wall You know they once called Jesus good. This perfect sinless man said "why call me good? There is no good but the Father". Who is the only "truth". We need a foundation

Nicodemus was who? Was a? Yet he could not understand earthly things. "Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"

For me some of your statements are backed up by the word....but YOU tell others what that verse is really saying. And giving the meaning also as in Hebrew or Greek.. does not make true as you see it.

We keep trying to see this through mans eyes. How in the world can we see when its so clouded? How is it in heaven? Everything God makes has LIFE. Its alive. Jesus said "even the rocks will cry out". God told Israel if you do the same sins the earth will spit you out". God is not a man. When He talks He means what He says. Ever word means something. The whole earth groans? Just a MANS saying both of these were? Ask to SEE what HE sees. "All will be saved". Does it really mean what you think?

 

[Truth7t7]

Correct. It was left to them desolate when Jerusalem in its entirety was destroyed.


Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand...

Luke 21:20
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.


Luke clarifies that the whole of Jerusalem would be made desolate, consistent with the scope of Christ's predictions in Matthew 23.

The book of Revelation was written in 96AD, as an established fact at the quote of "Iranaeus of Lyon" 130-202AD.

"Against Heresies, Book V, Chapter XXX"

(Quote)
"Towards The End Of Domitian's Reign"

Revelation 11:1-3 contains the very same "Time Of The Gentiles" as seen in the gospel accounts.

Roman Emperor Domitian reigned from 81-96AD

Apostle John was imprisoned to the Island Patmos under Domitian 81-96AD "Fact"!

Pretty hard to have A "Preterist" 70AD fulfillment of the "Time Of The Gentiles" In Revelation 11:1-3, When the book supporting the prophetical event wasn't even written yet

As previously posted several times, Justin Martyr 100-165AD, Iranaeus of Lyon 130-202AD, Hippolytus Of Rome 170-235AD

These early Apostolic Church Fathers all wrote in their open testimony to a future human man (Antichrist) and a future (Great Tribulation) from their 2nd & 3rd century lives."Fact"!

The father of "Preterism" Roman Catholic Jesuit, Luis De Alcasar, 1614AD in the counter reformation wasn't born yet

 

[BABerean2]

The book of Revelation was written in 96AD, as an established fact at the quote of "Iranaeus of Lyon" 130-202AD.

"Against Heresies, Book V, Chapter XXX"

(Quote)
"Towards The End Of Domitian's Reign"

Revelation 11:1-3 contains the very same "Time Of The Gentiles" as seen in the gospel accounts.

Roman Emperor Domitian reigned from 81-96AD

Apostle John was imprisoned to the Island Patmos under Domitian 81-96AD

Pretty hard to have A "Preterist" 70AD fulfillment of the "Time Of The Gentiles" In Revelation 11:1-3, When the book supporting the prophetical event wasn't even written yet

Look at what we find in Luke chapter 19.

Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,

Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

The word "compass" found above means to surround. This is exactly what the Roman legions did during 70 AD. The same description is found in Luke 21:20.

Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

The Roman legions under the command of Titus did lay the whole city level with the ground, except for what they had built, based on the words of the Jewish leader at Masada during 73 AD. Not one stone of the Jewish temple was left stacked one upon another.
The area now known as "The Temple Mount" is the remains of Roman Fort Antonia, which was built to house the thousands of Roman soldiers needed to police the city during the time of Christ.

The angel Gabriel had predicted the time of His visitation in Daniel chapter 9.
They should have been looking for the Messiah.

 

[Truth7t7]

We see in Revelation 11:1-2 below the "Time Of The Gentiles" Jerusalem being trampled, the same account in the gospels.

As previously posted #31 above, the book of Revelation wasn't written until 96AD, at the end of Roman Emperor Domitian's reign 81-96AD

The early church fathers as mentioned above all saw a future man of sin (Antichrist) and a future (Great Tribulation) from their 2nd and 3rd century lives

"Preterist" 70AD fulfillment of these events is a dream child of the Roman Catholic Jesuit"Luis De Alcasar" 1614AD

As previously stated, Jesus Christ taught the Temple would be destroyed and rebuilt in his death, burial, resurrection, symbolically, not literal temple stones.

Pretty hard to have 70AD fulfillment of Revelation 11:2 below, when the book wasn't even written until 96AD

Revelation 11:1-2KJV
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Look at what we find in Luke chapter 19.

Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,

Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

The word "compass" found above means to surround. This is exactly what the Roman legions did during 70 AD. The same description is found in Luke 21:20.

Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

The Roman legions under the command of Titus did lay the whole city level with the ground, except for what they had built, based on the words of the Jewish leader at Masada during 73 AD. Not one stone of the Jewish temple was left stacked one upon another.
The area now known as "The Temple Mount" is the remains of Roman Fort Antonia, which was built to house the thousands of Roman soldiers needed to police the city during the time of Christ.

The angel Gabriel had predicted the time of His visitation in Daniel chapter 9.
They should have been looking for the Messiah.

 

[Truth7t7]

When Was The Revelation of Jesus Christ written?

The Testimony of the Church Fathers

“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.” - Rev 1:9

by Rusty Entrekin

The writing of the Revelation of Jesus Christ has been traditionally assigned to around AD 96. Because this date does not fit into their theological scheme, Full Preterists, who claim that all of Bible prophesy was fulfilled in AD 70, argue for an earlier dating of the book, prior to AD 70.

However, the testimony of the Church Fathers is that the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written by John near the end of the reign of Domitian in AD 96. According to them, John was banished by Domitian to the lonely Isle of Patmos, a desolate Greek island in the Aegean Sea only 11 square miles in area. Victorinus, in his Commentary on the Apocolypse of the Blessed John, recorded that John labored in the mines of Patmos.

Domitian was a particularly cruel and ostentatious Roman emperor, who reigned from AD 81 - 96. He regularly arrested, imprisoned, and executed his enemies, even Roman noblemen and senators, and confiscated their properties for his own use. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, "The years 93-96 were regarded as a period of terror hitherto unsurpassed."

The Britannica also informs us that “A grave source of offense was his insistence on being addressed as dominus et deus (‘master and god’).” Perhaps this aroused in Domitian a hatred of faithful Christians, who would have refused him this demand. Domitian did in fact launch a persecution of Christians. In Book three, chapter 17 of his Ecclesiastical History, Eusebius writes,


Domitian, having shown great cruelty toward many, and having unjustly put to death no small number of well-born and notable men at Rome, and having without cause exiled and confiscated the property of a great many other illustrious men, finally became a successor of Nero in his hatred and enmity toward God. He was in fact the second that stirred up a persecution against us, although his father Vespasian had undertaken nothing prejudicial to us.

Tertullian (b.160 AD, d. 225 AD) is an early Christian writer who also testifies to this persecution. However, according to Tertullian, Domitian was somewhat more restrained than Nero had been in his persecution of Christians. In chapter five of his his Apology, Tertullian wrote:

Domitian, too, a man of Nero's type in cruelty, tried his hand at persecution, but as he had something of the human in him, he soon put an end to what he had begun, even restoring again those whom he had banished.

According to the Church fathers, the Apostle John was not among those released, but even if he had been, the fact that Domitian's reign did not begin until AD 81 means that the Revelation must have been written after that date.

Domitian was so hated for his excesses that own wife participated in the plot to assassinate him. Upon his death, his successor, Nerva, reversed many of the cruel judgments of Domitian, and John was subsequently released. Domitian’s reign ended in AD 96, and this has provided the traditional means for dating the writing of the book of Revelation.

Direct References to the Date

Although there are many indirect references to John being banished to Patmos under Domitian in the Church Fathers, there are also direct references to John’s banishment under Domitian. The earliest of these is that of Irenaeus (c. 130-202). He was bishop of Lyons in Gaul. In Against Heresies (A.D. 180-199), Book V, Chapter 30, we read:

We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign.

The church historian Eusebius Pamphili was born about 260 and died before 341. Bishop of Cæsarea in Palestine, he is known as the "Father of Church History." Eusebius confirms the authenticity of the testimony of Irenaeus. In chapter 18, Book 3 of his Church History, we read:

It is said that in this persecution the apostle and evangelist John, who was still alive, was condemned to dwell on the island of Patmos in consequence of his testimony to the divine word. Irenaeus, in the fifth book of his work Against Heresies, where he discusses the number of the name of Antichrist which is given in the so-called Apocalypse of John, speaks as follows concerning him: a "If it were necessary for his name to be proclaimed openly at the present time, it would have been declared by him who saw the revelation. For it was seen not long ago, but almost in our own generation, at the end of the reign of Domitian."

Regarding the reliability of the testimony of Irenaeus, in Barnes Notes on the New Testament we read:

It will be recollected that he [Irenaeus] was a disciple of Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna, who was himself the disciple of the apostle John. He had, therefore, every opportunity of obtaining correct information, and doubtless expresses the common sentiment of his age on the subject. His character is unexceptionable, and he had no inducement to bear any false or perverted testimony in the case. His testimony is plain and positive that the book was written near the close of the reign of Domitian, and the testimony should be regarded as decisive unless it can be set aside. His language in regard to the book of Revelation is: "It was seen no long time ago, but almost in our age, at the end of the reign of Domitian."—Lardner, ii. 181. Or, as the passage is translated by Prof. Stuart: "The Apocalypse was seen not long ago, but almost in our generation, near the end of Domitian’s reign." There can be no doubt, therefore, as to the meaning of the passage, or as to the time when Irenaeus believed the book to have been written. Domitian was put to death A.D. 96, and consequently, according to Irenaeus, the Apocalypse must have been written not far from this time.

Writing around AD 236, Hippolytis, in chapter one, verse 3 of On the Twelve Apostles, penned:

John, again, in Asia, was banished by Domitian the king to the isle of Patmos, in which also he wrote his Gospel and saw the apocalyptic vision; and in Trajan's time he fell asleep at Ephesus, where his remains were sought for, but could not be found.

About AD 270, Victorinus, In the Tenth Chapter of his Commentary on the Apocolypse of the Blessed John, wrote

...when John said these things he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the labour of the mines by Caesar Domitian. There, therefore, he saw the Apocalypse; and when grown old, he thought that he should at length receive his quittance by suffering, Domitian being killed, all his judgments were discharged. And John being dismissed from the mines, thus subsequently delivered the same Apocalypse which he had received from God.

Jerome was born about 340. He died at Bethlehem, 30 September, 420. Jerome wrote in the Ninth Chapter of Illustrious Men,

In the fourteenth year then after Nero, Domitian, having raised a second persecution, he was banished to the island of Patmos, and wrote the Apocalypse, on which Justin Martyr and Irenaeus afterwards wrote commentaries. But Domitian having been put to death and his acts, on account of his excessive cruelty, having been annulled by the senate, he returned to Ephesus under Pertinax(1) and continuing there until the tithe of the emperor Trajan, founded and built churches throughout all Asia, and, worn out by old age, died in the sixty-eighth year after our Lord's passion and was buried near the same city.

In Against Jovinianus, Book 1, Jerome also wrote:

"John is both an Apostle and an Evangelist, and a prophet. An Apostle, because he wrote to the Churches as a master; an Evangelist, because he composed a Gospel, a thing which no other of the Apostles, excepting Matthew, did; a prophet, for he saw in the island of Patmos, to which he had been banished by the Emperor Domitian as a martyr for the Lord, an Apocalypse containing the boundless mysteries of the future."

Sulpitius Severus was an ecclesiastical writer who was born in Aquitaine in 360. He died about 420-25. In chapter 31 of Book 2 of his Sacred History, we read:

THEN, after an interval, Domitian, the son of Vespasian, persecuted the Christians. At this date, he banished John the Apostle and Evangelist to the island of Patmos.

Look at what we find in Luke chapter 19.

Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,

Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,

The word "compass" found above means to surround. This is exactly what the Roman legions did during 70 AD. The same description is found in Luke 21:20.

Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

The Roman legions under the command of Titus did lay the whole city level with the ground, except for what they had built, based on the words of the Jewish leader at Masada during 73 AD. Not one stone of the Jewish temple was left stacked one upon another.
The area now known as "The Temple Mount" is the remains of Roman Fort Antonia, which was built to house the thousands of Roman soldiers needed to police the city during the time of Christ.

The angel Gabriel had predicted the time of His visitation in Daniel chapter 9.
They should have been looking for the Messiah.

 

[BABerean2]

Pretty hard to have 70AD fulfillment of Revelation 11:2 below, when the book wasn't even written until 96AD

Revelation 11:1-2KJV
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Not really.

You did not go to the end of the chapter to find out where this temple is located.


Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.



Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.



"temple" = Greek "naos" in Revelation chapter 11.

"temple" = Greek "hieron" in Matthew 24:1.

They are not the same temple.

.

 

[Davy]

You obviously don't understand, because like someone already posted, Jesus promised that His 12 Apostles would each sit upon thrones as kings over the 12 tribes of Israel (Matt.19:28). That means in His Salvation the nation of Israel is still... going to exist, and the foundation of it will be even include His Apostles reigning in it!

But what you've obviously been taught is a bunch of doctrines from men, false ideas of floating upon a cloud somewhere in la-la land.

And much of this struggle is the failure to realize that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

The understanding above connects the Old Testament to the New Testament.
As a matter of fact the books written during the first century contained between the first page of Matthew's Gospel and the last page of the Book of Revelation are about this New Covenant promised in the Book of Jeremiah.

When the Church first began almost all of its members were Israelites, as found in Acts 2:36.
The Gentiles were not grafted into the Church to any large degree until about 3 years after Paul's conversion.

I understand my identity which is revealed by Matthew 1:1, Galatians 3:16, and Galatians 3:28-29.

The same is found in Galatians 6:15-16.

Those who fail to recognize the fulfillment of the New Covenant will continue to be in error.

.

 

[Davy]

Sad, but true.

These people neglect the fact that prophecy occupies a full third of everything God has said to us. I know most people say a fourth, but they are neglecting the Psalms as prophecy. And many New Testament passages explicitly state that certain Psalms are prophecy. When we include the Psalms as prophecy, the prophetic portions of the Bible total one third of the total message God gave us.

This is not for... them:

Matt 13:51-52
51 Jesus saith unto them, "Have ye understood all these things?" They say unto Him, "Yea, Lord."

52 Then said He unto them, "Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old."
KJV

 

[BABerean2]

That means in His Salvation the nation of Israel is still... going to exist, and the foundation of it will be even include His Apostles reigning in it!

Is Abraham preparing to return to Canaan land?

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.



The woman at the well, who had many husbands, agrees with you.
However, Jesus corrects her in the passage below.

Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


You are confusing the two Israels found in Romans 9:6, and Romans 9:8.

What did Paul say in Galatians 4 about the two different Jerusalems?

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


The Apostles of Christ will be found in Jerusalem.
However, it will not be the one on this rotten, sin-cursed world.

Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

.

 

[Davy]

You simply reveal you don't really have much of a clue, and that because you delete so much of God's Word just to keep your tradition.

Is Abraham preparing to return to Canaan land?

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.



The woman at the well, who had many husbands, agrees with you.
However, Jesus corrects her in the passage below.

Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


You are confusing the two Israels found in Romans 9:6, and Romans 9:8.

What did Paul say in Galatians 4 about the two different Jerusalems?

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


The Apostles of Christ will be found in Jerusalem.
However, it will not be the one on this rotten, sin-cursed world.

Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

.

 

[seventysevens]

Interesting information on the rebirth of Israel

Israel Indivisible: The Case For The Ancient Homeland DVD - Cutting Edge Ministries

'Indivisible' Film Tackles Crusade to Destroy Israel