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Featured New Testament Promises of Israel’s Restoration

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Biblewriter, Dec 25, 2017.

  1. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Many people imagine that the many scriptural promises of a future restoration of Israel, both to her ancient homeland and to her God, are contained only in the Old Testament and no longer apply. But it is not only the Old Testament that declares that Israel will eventually be restored. The New Testament also teaches this, both in the direct words of our Lord himself, and in the words of the Holy Spirit, given through the Apostles. We read, for instance, that Jesus said:

    “37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” (Matthew 23:37-39)

    And:

    “34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! 35 See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ” (Luke 13:34-35)

    We need to notice what was addressed here. These words were not addressed to the individuals standing around. Nor were they addressed to the priests that had rejected Him. Nor to the Pharisees and Sadducees. They were addressed, and specifically addressed, to a city, Jerusalem. Jesus said, “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!” (And in both passages, the wording of this sentence is identical.) The fact that Jesus accused Jerusalem of killing “the prophets” and of stoning “those who are sent to her,” Jesus was unquestionably addressing the city of Jerusalem in a multi-generational sense.

    Why is this important? Because Jesus did not say that Jerusalem would see Him no more “unless” they said “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!” He said it would see Him no more “till” or “until” until it said this. The Greek word translated “till” in Matthew 23:39 is the same one translated “until” in Luke 13:35. This is the Greek word “heos” (word number 2193 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary.) In the KJV, this Greek word is translated “till” 39 times, “until” 25 times, “unto” 27 times, and “to” 16 times. This Greek word does not imply that the event referred to “might” happen. It implies that the event “will” eventually happen. This is not interpretation. It is the basic meaning of the Greek word used in these two scriptures. So Jesus was unquestionably saying that there was a time coming, in which this wicked and rebellious city would finally say, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!” (And again, in this sentence as well, the wording of both of these passages is identical.)

    So from these two passages alone, we know that there will be a day when Jerusalem will say, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!” This would be plain even if no other passage spoke of it. But that is not all we see in these passages. We also see, in the words of our Lord Jesus himself, that although Israel is now rejected, that rejection is only temporary, and will end when they finally say “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord”

    Again, we read:

    “24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24)

    And:

    “25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” (Romans 11:25)

    As in the case of Matthew 23:39 and Luke 13:35, the Greek word translated “until” in these two passages is also the same. But for these two passages, the Greek word is “achri.” (word number 891 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary) In the KJV, this word is translated “until” 16 times, “unto” 13 times, “till” 6 times, and “even to” 2 times. (It is also translated “while” 2 times, but only if accompanied by the Greek word “hos,” word number 3739 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary, which means “who,” “which,” “what,” or “that.”)

    But again, we need to notice the subject of these two pronouncements. The first pronouncement is, as in the first two passages we noticed, about the city of Jerusalem. Now some want to pretend that the words, “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled,” refer to the events of A.D.70, when the Romans sacked Jerusalem. There can be zero doubt that the entire preceding part of this paragraph referred to this time. For it says:

    “20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles.” (Luke 21:20-24a)

    But we need to notice that the time specified by the words “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” does not end at the fall of Jerusalem. Instead of ending at that time, it begins at that time, running forward to an undefined later time. (I speak here only of the specific wording of this sentence. For the ending of that time is indeed specified, and clearly specified, in other scriptures.) So again this statement, which speaks of the city of Jerusalem over a period of time that is not defined in this passage, is again speaking of that city in a multi-generational sense.

    But what of the second of the two pronouncements we are currently discussing? In Romans 11:25 we read that “blindness in part has happened to Israel.” Now many want to insist that in the New Testament, “Israel” means “the church.” But this passage is clearly not saying that “blindness in part” has happened to “the church.” Such an idea would be contrary to many other scriptures, such as John 16:13, where we read, “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth.” So this passage is clearly speaking of the physical nation of Israel.

    This is indeed made crystal clear when the entirety of this very long passage is considered. For it begins three chapters earlier by clearly speaking of Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites.” (Romans 9:3-4a) So this pronouncement is very unquestionably about the nation of Israel. And it unquestionably speaks of a judicial “ blindness” inflicted upon that ancient and evil nation. But that “blindness”is is only “in part,” and this “blindness” is unquestionably temporary. For rather than being permanent, it is only “until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” And this word “until” clearly speaks of a time when that Judicial blindness will end. It could hardly be more obvious that this time has not yet come, for the vast bulk is that nation remains partially blinded to spiritual truth, even to the present day. But when “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,” that judicially inflicted blindness will come to an end.

    When Luke 21:24 and Romans 11:25 are examined together, it becomes obvious that they both refer to the same time, that is, that the time when “the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled,” or the time when “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” So we see that both of these passages say, in one case, that “Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles,” or, in the other case, “Israel” is inflicted with a judicial “blindness,” until that time. And that time is when “the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled,” or when “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.”

    Both of the two Greek words translated “till” or “until” in these four passages, clearly indicate a temporary condition, that will have a distinctive ending. Their difference is that “heos,” which is used in Matthew 23:39 and Luke 13:35, stresses that the condition described will continue until the time is reached, while “achri,” which is used in Luke 21:24 and Romans 11:25, stresses that the condition described will end at a specific time.

    So now we have seen four different places in the New Testament, all of which clearly show that the current rejection of Israel is only temporary, and that it will end at a specific time, which is still future even now, nearly two thousand years since these pronouncements were made.

    But now we need to go back and re-consider the last of these four passages we have noticed.

    “25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.” (Romans 11:25)

    For this passage continues as follows:

    “26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: ‘The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.’ 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:26-29)

    The context of this entire passage, Romans 11:25-29, existing as it does in immediate connection with verse 25, highlights its unified message. The judicial “blindness” inflicted upon Israel is only temporary, “and so all Israel will be saved.” “For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.” Between these statements we read that even though “they are enemies for your sakes,” they yet remain “beloved for the sake of the fathers.” That is, this passage is not speaking of that portion of Israel that has come to faith in Crist, but of that portion of that ancient and rebellious nation that have rejected the message of the gospel. This is the context of both the statement that “all Israel will be saved” and the statement that “the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.” This message is stated so clearly that nothing but prejudice can keep a person from understanding it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
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  2. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    This is also stated in Romans 9, where we read:

    “25 As He says also in Hosea: ‘I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved.’ ‘26 And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, “You are not My people,” There they shall be called sons of the living God.’ ” (Romans 9:25-26)

    In the very place “where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.” That is the context given by the Holy Spirit himself, speaking through the Apostle Paul, for the words “I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved.”

    Now we are not told exactly where Hosea was standing when God told him, “Call his name Lo-Ammi, For you are not My people, And I will not be your God.” (Hosea 1:9) But as he was a prophet of Judah, this would have been said somewhere in Judea, the country now called Israel. So here, in Romans 9:25, which is a quotation from Hosea 1:10, the Holy Spirit clearly said that there was a day coming when, within the physical borders of the modern nation of Israel, the people of Israel “shall be called sons of the living God.”

    But this brings us back to the beginnings of this ninth chapter of Romans, where we read:

    “1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.” (Romans 9:1-5)
    We noticed earlier that this passage clearly defines the people under discussion as Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites.” Thus, there can be zero question that the people group under discussion is the individuals that made up the fleshly nation of Israel. There is absolutely no way this can be rationally “spiritualized” to mean “the church.” Yet this same people group remains the subject throughout these entire three chapters, for we read of them again in chapter eleven, that, “Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.” (Romans 11:28)

    So this entire three chapter section (Romans 9-11) is about the fleshly nation of Israel, who were “enemies” “concerning the gospel.” That is, the people under discussion had not accepted the gospel, and were on their way to a lost eternity. But, even though tthey were “enemies,” yet they were still “beloved for the sake of the fathers.” And then comes a stunning declaration, which is the death forever for the claim that god has permanently rejected Israel. “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:29)

    We need to notice that the context of this declaration that “the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” is the fact that Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites,” are “enemies” “concerning the gospel.” Yet they “are beloved for the sake of the fathers.”

    We are not only explicitly told of the temporary nature of Israel’s rejection, we are also told the reason for this. And again, the words are too plain to misunderstand, unless they are approached by a prejudiced mind. God did not reject Israel in condemnation, but to provoke them to jealousy. This is not a tactic of someone who has stopped loving someone and turned to another. It is a tactic of someone who is still in love, and who is working to win back the love of whoever had spurned their love. So we read:

    “19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says: ‘I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.’ ” (Romans 10:19)

    And again we read:

    “11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! 13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?” (Romans 11:11-15)

    So God has not only clearly told us that the reason for Israel’s rejection is only to woo them back to himself. He has just as clearly told us that when he has accomplished that purpose, the result of Israel’s restoration will not mean a loss of blessing to the gentiles, but rather, as it were, a very revival of “life from the dead.”

    And we need to notice that this eventual restoration of Israel is not stated here as a new revelation, but rather referred to as a well established fact. The Holy Spirit does not say, “if they are revived, it will be life from the dead,” but “what will their acceptance be but life from the dead.” That is, the Christian’s prior knowledge of this acceptance is simply assumed in this scripture.

    And why would this knowledge of Israel’s eventual acceptance be simply assumed here? Because it had already been stated, and explicitly stated, in too many places to count.

    A great many of these explicit statements that God will indeed accomplish this purpose of winning back their hearts are in the Old Testament. So they are outside of the subject matter of this article. But concerning these very many Old Testament statements about this, we need to notice what Jesus said concerning the rich man and Lazarus:

    “29Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ” (Luke 16:29-31)

    So the scriptures warn us that we are responsible to heed the words of “Moses and the prophets.” And in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit clearly refers to these Old Testament prophecies, saying, “19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19-21)

    This future period is here called two things. It is first called “times of refreshing” and then called “the times of restoration of all things.” The Greek word here translated “of refreshing” is “anapsuxeos,” (word number 403 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which properly means a “recovery of breath,” and thus figuratively means “revival.” And the Greek word translated “of restoration” is “apokatastaseos,” (word number 605 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which means “reconstitution.” What we need to realize from this, is that neither of these words means, or even implies, a time of judgment. Both of these words mean a restoration, not a time of destruction. That is, the Holy Spirit, here quoting Peter through Luke, is specifically saying that there is a time coming when all things will be restored, and then explicitly says that this is the time of “which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.”

    So here we have a NEW TESTAMENT statement, made after the new covenant was ALREADY in force, that the things “which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began” are still in the future, and will still happen. That is, these MANY promises still apply. These are the promises which, as we previously saw in Romans 9:3-4, still “pertain” to Paul’s “brethren,” his “countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites.”
     
  3. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    And finally, there is one more New Testament scripture that mentions this future restoration of Israel.
    “27Then Peter answered and said to Him, ‘See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?’ 28So Jesus said to them, ‘Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.’ ” (Matthew 19:27-28)

    The Greek word here translated “regeneration” is “paliggenesia.” (word number 3824 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary) In the Greek this is a compound word made by connecting the Greek word “palin,” (word number 3825 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which means “once more,” and the Greek word “genesis,” (word number1078 in Strong’s Greek Dictionary,) which means “nativity,” or “birth.” So once again, this word clearly speaks of a time of restoration, not a time of destruction. But in this time the twelve Apostles “will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” Thus we clearly read, in the New Testament, of a future rebirth, in which the twelve apostles will judge “the twelve tribes of Israel.” Not just Judah, but all twelve tribes, just as repeatedly promised in the Old Testament.

    So in conclusion, there is simply no rational escape from the fact that, not just the Old Testament, but also the New Testament, clearly and repeatedly states that there is a time coming in the future, in which the ancient nation of Israel will be restored.
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    If taken in context, Luke 21:24-28 shows that the times of the Gentiles comes to an end at the future Second Coming of Christ.

    Were all of the Israelites "partially" blinded or were part of the Israelites blinded and part were not blinded? See Romans 9:6, and Romans 9:8, and Romans 9:27.

    In Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18 we find that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 was fulfilled by Christ during the first century.
    It is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.




    .
     
  5. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    Here is another scripture of interest:

    John 5:43

    I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

    This is the one who shall come in his own name:

    Daniel 11:36

    Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done

    The Jews will receive the antichrist as their messiah until the abomination of desolation, at which time they will repent and receive Jesus as their Messiah:

    Zechariah 12:10-14

    And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
     
  6. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    What happened on the Day of Pentecost?

    Was the Spirit poured out that day?


    Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

    What did Peter say about the Spirit being poured out on that day?

    Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
    Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
    Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
    Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
    Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:


    Did they mourn for the one they had seen pierced just a few weeks earlier?

    Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?


    And how did about 3,000 respond on that day?

    Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


    Based on the parable of the virgins from Matthew chapter 25, there will be no second chances at His Second Coming.

    .
     
  7. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    It doesn't happen at the second coming, it happens before it, sometime after the abomination of desolation.
     
  8. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    All the excuses cannot get rid if the fact that the New Testament, like the Old Testament, says that the nation of Israel will be restored. And this includes Peter's sermon, which was given shortly AFTER the day of Pentecost. And Romans, which was given by the Holy Spirit LONG after the day of Pentecost, makes it exceedingly clear that this means Paul's "brethren," his "countrymen according to the flesh," and ALSO that it applies both to those who are still "enemies" "concerning the gospel," but "beloved for the sake of the fathers." And furthermore, that, LONG AFTER the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit explained this by saying, in regard to this particular statement, "For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable."

    This is the absolute death knell to the demonic lie that the ancient nation of Israel will not actually be restored, as so explicitly and repeatedly promised in the Old Testament, and referred to by Peter in his sermon shortly AFTER the day of Pentecost, calling this "the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began." (Acts 3:21)
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    If you can make the above work without ignoring the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, then maybe we could believe it.

    Otherwise, it is just another claim made by modern Dispensational Theology.

    Much like the claim that God will one day bring in another covenant, with renewed animal sacrifices for sin...


    .
     
  10. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    See post #8.

    You keep posting scriptures that YOU choose to INTERPRET that this future restoration of Israel will not take place, while I keep posting scriptures that EXPLICITLY SAY it will take place. And now I have taken away your excuse that all the scriptures that say this are in the Old Testament, under the Old Covenant, by proving that this is also stated, and clearly stated, in the New Testament, and under the New Covenant.
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Throughout Romans chapter 11 Paul refers to two different groups of Israelites, one faithful, and one not.

    Paul starts the chapter in this way with the Israelites who worshipped Baal, and the remnant of 7,000 Israelites who refused to bow down to Baal. Paul said there was a faithful remnant during his time and the same is true today.

    The Dispensationalist must twist the passage to make his Two Peoples of God doctrine work.


    Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

    In the verse above we have the New Covenant Church represented by the cultivated Olive Tree branches grafted together with the wild Gentile Olive Tree branches.
    Paul only provides one path to salvation in the passage by being grafted into the Olive Tree, through faith in Christ.



    Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    Dispensationalists have a tendency to claim that all of the Israelites are "partially" blinded, instead of seeing that some are blinded and some are not, as found in the context of Romans 11:2-5. They also tend to claim that the times of the Gentiles ends are the pretrib removal of the Church, while hoping that others do not read Luke 21:24-28, which shows the future Second Coming of Christ after the times of the Gentiles comes to an end.


    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    Many Dispensationalists will either leave out the word "so" in Romans 11:26, or they will change the word from "so" to "then", in order to change the context from the manner of salvation into the timing of salvation.


    Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    Is the covenant in Romans 11:27 the New Covenant fulfilled for all races of people at Calvary, or is it a future covenant with the modern State of Israel?
    The answer is found in Hebrews 10:16-18.



    Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

    One cannot be an enemy of God and the elect of God at the same time.
    Therefore, there are also two different groups of Israelites in Romans 11:28, just as there were in Romans 11:2-5.
    There are "they" who have rejected the Gospel and are the enemies of God, and there are "they" who accepted the Gospel and are the elect remnant.


    Often times what the Dispensationalist declares to be the truth, is his own creation.
    This is just one example.

    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  12. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The initial observation is that of your abandonment of your repeated claims of literality. For Matthew and Luke refer exclusively to literal Jerusalem, and literal Jerusalem is a literal city. Thus your reference to the city as “multi-generational” is immediately illiteral and metaphorical.

    But since Christ was of course referring metaphorically to the city's inhabitants in the Old Covenant era, rather than the literal city itself, let us examine who those inhabitants were. We know that, spiritually, they would have fallen into two categories: those who were faithful to the Old Covenant and had not “bowed the knee to Baal”; and those who were unfaithful to the Old Covenant and had rebelled against its own requirements of faith and obedience.

    Who then “killed the prophets and stoned those who were sent to her”? Obviously Christ is referring to the unfaithful.

    Who were unwilling to be gathered? Obviously the unfaithful.

    Whose house was left to them desolate? Obviously the unfaithful. By the time of the Roman invasion, the gospel had been penetrating Jerusalem for over 30 years and the Christian Church was surviving if not thriving. History records that all of the Christian believers fled Jerusalem and Judea prior to the invasion and escaped with their lives. Only the unfaithful were left.

    Their house was left to them desolate.

    When Christ returns the second final time, we are told:

    Philippians 2
    10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
    11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    At that time, every human being who has ever lived, saint and sinner, believer and unbeliever, faithful and unfaithful, Israelite and non-Israelite, Jerusalemite and non-Jerusalemite, alike; will confess “Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord”. There will be no ethnic distinctions which will characterize that confession. It will be universal.

    The only “multi-generational” references in Christ's discourse are found here:

    Matthew 23
    33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

    This discourse is a scathing indictment of the unbelieving and unfaithful within the Jerusalem of that day and past days, the prediction of the judgment and fate that would soon befall the generation of that day, and of the confession of all inhabitants of the whole earth upon Christ's return.


    It is singularly devoid of anything to do with any restoration of Israel.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  13. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Jerusalem "in a multi-generational sense" is not "an abandonment" "of literality," but rather a strictly literal analysis of the actual words used by Jesus. And from there, the rest of your answer becomes even worse.

    Your entire system of interpretation is based on a rank assumption that the Bible could not even possibly mean what it expressly says. And to bolster this, you insist that your interpretations of what certain passages mean is what they say, while you claim that the very many other passages that say exactly the opposite of your interpretations, simply do not mean what they explicitly say.
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    meaning ... it's going to happen.
     
  15. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    It is going to happen, but it will not be after a pretrib removal of the Church, since the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13, and the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.

    Since the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, it is not going to happen as proponents of modern Dispensational Theology claim.

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  16. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    When a person has absolutely no understanding whatsoever of why a rapture would happen , they have no understanding of when it will happen- you have to understand the why before you can correctly understand the when , and there is no logical reason at all for it to happen after the Great Trib which is the reason why there is no scripture whatsoever that states the rapture will happen after the Great Trib - continually people will post many scriptures that simply Require an assumption it happens after the Great Trib and posting a thousand scriptures that require assumption does not make it true
    Learn why it happens and not focus on when -only then eyes will open to when
     
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


    Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.



    .
     
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I welcome a reasoned rebuttal of any part of my commentary.
     
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I don't think it is specific to when Jesus returns. At least I don't see that in the text of Philippians 2. Christians of every generation have happily bowed and confessed Jesus is not only our Lord but Savior.

    The wicked, well for some of them, it will not be until the Great White Throne judgment.
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

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