New Testament Promises of Israel’s Restoration

[Old Timer]

Sooner or later I'll learn to stuff everything in the bible into the DofJ..

 

[Interplanner]

I'm not doing that and I don't know anyone who is. You need to expand your number of categories, as Paul's letters say, to appreciation the "manifold" wisdom of God (that means many topics, departments).

 

[Old Timer]

Everyone knows it all comes down to the DofJ..

Let's not sell ourselves short here.

 

[random person]

You are putting up straw horses so you can knock them down.

Dispensationalists do not say, believe, or teach that the restoration of Israel will be based on the old covenant.

With James absence here, can any other Dispensationalist tell where in the New Testament it is taught that Israel will be restored?

The book of Revelation mentions both the church and Israel quite sparcely FYI.

Dispensationalists and Christian Zionists AND RAPTURE believers always like to point out this fact about the "church" in Revelation, yet, hypocritically they fail to point out this fact about "Israel" in Revelation.

Double standards! Shame! Shame!

 

[Douggg]

With James absence here, can any other Dispensationalist tell where in the New Testament it is taught that Israel will be restored?

The book of Revelation mentions both the church and Israel quite sparcely FYI.

Dispensationalists and Christian Zionists AND RAPTURE believers always like to point out this fact about the "church" in Revelation, yet, hypocritically they fail to point out this fact about "Israel" in Revelation.

Double standards! Shame! Shame!

I am not a dispensatinalist, but I am a futurist.

The verses for of the restoration of Israel as a united kingdom of one country is in Ezekiel 37, the joining of the two sticks. Ephraim is a name for the northern ten tribe kingdom, and Judah the name for the southern two tribes. Israel split up after Solomon's death into two separate nations.

Both nations eventually went into captivity because they got into worshiping idols and false gods.

These are the verses you asked for. And has been fulfilled in part as far as the Jews, the Israelites, brought out of the nations to the land and the nation born in a single day (May 15, 1948), fulfilling Isaiah 66:7-8 as well.

Not all of the prophecy has been fulfilled yet because the Jews still haven't received Jesus as the messiah. And Jesus hasn't returned to be welcomed by them as their King, Lord, and Savior.

Ezekiel 37:
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.


The disciples would have been aware of that prophecy, when they asked in Acts 1 of Jesus before he ascended to heaven out of their sight. What they were asking Jesus about was that restoring Israel back to a single country again under one king.

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.


None of the apostles were given a complete understanding of the end times prophecies, start to finish, because the restoration of Israel (into that single kingdom) was not to be in their day. That is why in the new testament, none of the apostles wrote about things like Gog/Magog, and other end times events described in books like Daniel, because the understanding has been sealed until our day.

 

[Interplanner]

Doug, the question was about the NT.
The apostles were taught the whole counsel of God.
There were told not to look in to a future kingdom for Israel because it was none of their business. And only if we marginalize the "lamb that was slain" (about whom the whole heavenly chorus sings) do we find any concern about the future of Israel. I really don't know why we would.

 

[Douggg]

Doug, the question was about the NT.
The apostles were taught the whole counsel of God.
There were told not to look in to a future kingdom for Israel because it was none of their business. And only if we marginalize the "lamb that was slain" (about whom the whole heavenly chorus sings) do we find any concern about the future of Israel. I really don't know why we would.

I am sure you meant to say - And only if we marginalize the "lamb that was slain" (about whom the whole heavenly chorus sings) do we not find any concern about the future of Israel.

 

[Interplanner]

actually no. if the slain Lamb is marginalized then there is this fixation with a future Israel. you can see that the thunderous song in heaven is not "worthy is the Lion that blasted all its middle east enemies with rockets powered by God".

I thought maybe another 10 days of fighting in modern Israel might have shown us that nothing going on there is what the Rev is about. The same problems will be there 10 days from now. None of it is what the NT is talking about.

NT eschatology is either near-future Judean OR distant-future worldwide. They are not mixed.

 

[Old Timer]

It's simply your friendly Mid East ELEPHANT

 

[Interplanner]

For Doug only,
besides "it's none of your business" in Acts 1, there just isn't any future detail like we find from futurists when the apostles exclaim the wonders of the unified Gospel community enjoying the promise to Israel and membership in it together. Gal 3, Eph 2-3, Acts 13, Col 2. You would think somewhere in one of these there would be an absolutely clear indication someplace in one of these about a distant future when so many technical terms have been used and enjoyed in a fulfilled status.

I think it was Rat who agreed with BW the other day that what Christians get to enjoy about the Gospel has nothing to do with this earth and is in heaven. Freedom and power over sin, death, and hell does not improve this life? All other religions and cultures are trapped in guilt, shame, fear, fatalism except us in the Gospel. That's why we have a person like D'Souza who left a fatalist background for the Christian roots of America, and an excellent documentary about that.

 

[Biblewriter]

With James absence here, can any other Dispensationalist tell where in the New Testament it is taught that Israel will be restored?

This question is based on the seriously false doctrine doctrine that an Old Testament promise has to be repeated in the New Testament to be believed. When and where God made a promise is wholly immatrial. The fact is that He made the promises, so they will most certainly be kept.

But the OP of this very thread shows the places in the New Testament that teach the future restoration of Israel.

The book of Revelation mentions both the church and Israel quite sparcely FYI.

Dispensationalists and Christian Zionists AND RAPTURE believers always like to point out this fact about the "church" in Revelation, yet, hypocritically they fail to point out this fact about "Israel" in Revelation.

Double standards! Shame! Shame!

OOPS!

You forgot Revelation 7:4-8 and Revelation 21:12.

 

[Rev20]

This question is based on the seriously false doctrine doctrine that an Old Testament promise has to be repeated in the New Testament to be believed. When and where God made a promise is wholly immatrial. The fact is that He made the promises, so they will most certainly be kept.

Where does it say that is false doctrine, Biblewriter?


.

 

[Biblewriter]

Where does it say that is false doctrine, Biblewriter?


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It would be more to the point to ask where the Bible says, or even hints, that an Old Testament promise can only be relied upon if it is repeated in the New Testament. No scripture says any such thing, or even hints at such an idea.

It is seriously false doctrine because it makes God a liar. Your doctrine says that the promises God made to Israel will never be kept.

 

[Danoh]

Yeah, the Apostles were taught the whole counsel of God; yeah: lets base that on a passage late in Acts, years yet from Paul writing more than half of what he'd yet to write. John was told in Revelation he did not receive all there was.

As for the question in Acts one, His answer is the same "thief in the night" -"no man knoweth the hour" kind of answer NOT some denial of their question's implication, the beginning of that chapter's and Luke 24's implication as well - the promised, literal, physical, Earthly "restoration again" of "Israel's kingdom."

Passage after passage in Mattew thru John concerns "THE kingdom" - He was preaching to people He spoke to, not about some kingdom they knew nothing about BUT about "THE kingdom."

Just goes to show how blind the traditions of men have made some that they cannot see the obvious "THE kingdom" He announced "at hand."

 

[Danoh]

As Christ Himself had put it, "not even the Son knoweth the hour, but the Father."

But, okay, Inter, "Apostles had the whole counsel of God."

Yeah, okay...

NEXT!!!!

 

[Interplanner]

Where do you get the idea it was years after the end of Acts before Paul wrote most letters?

The kingdom he was speaking of was not understood. He said it was the OT kingdom, and they scoffed. That's what Jn 12:34 is about. He meant there was a power coming to proclaim the Lordship of Christ to all culture.

 

[Rev20]

It would be more to the point to ask where the Bible says, or even hints, that an Old Testament promise can only be relied upon if it is repeated in the New Testament. No scripture says any such thing, or even hints at such an idea.

It says it over an over, again; but it is written that those who have the "vail of the old testament" over their faces cannot see it, Biblewriter. Let us begin with Moses:

"The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;" -- Deu 18:15​

"And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations." -- Isa 25:7​

"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." -- Luke 16:16​

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." -- Luke 21:20-22​

"Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph." -- John 1:45​

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." -- John 5:39-40​

"Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" -- John 5:45-47​

"But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." -- Acts 3:18-19​

"And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." -- Acts 3:20-21​

"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." -- Acts 3:22-23​

"Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." -- Acts 3:25-26​

"This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner." -- Acts 4:11​

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." -- Acts 10:43​

"And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." -- Acts 13:39​

"Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles." -- Acts 26:22-23​

"And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ." -- 2Cor 3:13-14​

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" -- Heb 1:1-2​

Everything points to Christ, even the words of Moses himself. Maybe we should listen to Christ and not rely too much on our own understanding.

"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." -- Pro 3:5-6​

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It is seriously false doctrine because it makes God a liar. Your doctrine says that the promises God made to Israel will never be kept.

You are fast and loose with the truth, Biblewriter. I have never made that statement, and you know it! I simply do not believe your interpretation of the promises to Israel, nor should anyone else.

It is written that Jesus Christ, as the seed of Abraham, inherited all the promises made to Abraham and his seed, including the Davidic covenant. Do you deny that?


.

 

[Biblewriter]

It says it over an over, again; but it is written that those who have the "vail of the old testament" over their faces cannot see it, Biblewriter.

Not even one of the scriptures you quoted even hints at an idea that a promise made to Israel no longer applies unless it is repeated in the New Testament.

You are fast and loose with the truth, Biblewriter. I have never made that statement, and you know it! I simply do not believe your interpretation of the promises to Israel, nor should anyone else.

Whether or not you said these precise words is immaterial. That is the true effect of the doctrine you systematically teach. I do not "interpret" the promises made to Israel. I simple believe them.

It is written that Jesus Christ, as the seed of Abraham, inherited all the promises made to Abraham and his seed, including the Davidic covenant. Do you deny that?


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You are ignoring the many promises made to Israel after it had rebelled and its judgment had been pronounced. They were repeatedly promised a restoration that has never taken place. And that promise was explicitly stated in very plain words, again and again. And it is simple falsehood to deny this.

 

[Douggg]

Not even one of the scriptures you quoted even hints at an idea that a promise made to Israel no longer applies unless it is repeated in the New Testament.

It's 70 ad or bust ! don't be trying any of that logic stuff on us. It doesn't work.

We swear we are two of the 144,000

????????????

All James was doing is giving you an example that God's promises are not conditional.

Plus, I got a peanut butter, jelly, bologna sandwich and you don't..... You preterists need to read the bible.
I don't care if I do over use the word "explicitly". I am an award winning author. I got penmanship rights. It's in the Constitution.

 

[Interplanner]

To Doug and BW,
you might think what you're saying has the logic to it, but that's if 2P2P is valid. What anyone can tell from the NT is that it doesn't sound like futurism; there is far more excitement and attention about what was already here in Christ.

Our pal OTimer likes to say 'it all comes down to Israel.' That is how you sound. It is totally the opposite of how the NT sounds. The NT breaks away from Judaism; 2P2P continues it.

Raising the question again of the veil (note Rev20: a veil is a head covering; a vail is a valley!). What does the veil do, that is mentioned in 2 Cor? It makes people think that Judaism has the promises right. BWs over the top language about being explicit and 'nothing even comes close to shifting these promises in the NT' is...well...the veiled view. This situation is pretty much the same issue as Christ telling the temple leaders "you search the Scriptures because you think the messianic life is in them." (It is--in the following sense "It is these that testify of me." I think this is why this severe language comes out of BW whenever we get to this point. It's been this way for 2 years.