New human-like species discovered in S Africa

AV1611VET

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What is your argument against the OP?
10

JonFromMinnesota said:
You have only dismissed it without a rebuttal other than "I don't believe this".
If that is all you got from my rebuttal, then we're arguing past each other and just showing the lurkers who's the more ... unknowledgeable ... in the other's respective field.
 
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Strathos

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It's all evolution. There isn't a "type" of evolution. Please clarify what you are talking about. That doesn't make sense.
Genetic mutation that reveal new features is a product of evolution. I think I understand the argument you're trying to make and correct me if I am wrong but "Microevolution happens but not macro" Which doesn't make sense. It's like saying I can drive my car down the street but it's impossible to drive it across the country.

Oh man, I can tell you're new here.

Watching you attempt to reason with AV and justi makes me feel sorry for you. And yet it's amusing at the same time.
 
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JonFromMinnesota

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Where's your flawless scientific evidence that all of life we observe today is the result of only random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanisms?

There ain't none.

1. Fossil record (Filled with hundreds of transitional species), which by the way were accurately predicted what we'd find before we found it.

2. DNA. Read up about human chromosome #2

3. Observable studies (easily found by searching google)
 
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Cearbhall

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Oh man, I can tell you're new here.

Watching you attempt to reason with AV and justi makes me feel sorry for you. And yet it's amusing at the same time.
Same. I'm just enjoying the show.
 
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justlookinla

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It's all evolution. There isn't a "type" of evolution. Please clarify what you are talking about. That doesn't make sense.
Genetic mutation that reveal new features is a product of evolution. I think I understand the argument you're trying to make and correct me if I am wrong but "Microevolution happens but not macro" Which doesn't make sense. It's like saying I can drive my car down the street but it's impossible to drive it across the country.

Of course there are 'types' of evolution. "Evolution" isn't a monolithic term.


1. Evolution as Change Over Time

Nature has a history; it is not static. Natural sciences deal with evolution in its first sense—change over time in the natural world—when they seek to reconstruct series of past events to tell the story of nature’s history. Astronomers study the life cycles of stars; geologists ponder the changes in the earth’s surface; paleontologists note changes in the types of life that have existed over time, as represented in the sedimentary rock record (fossil succession); biologists note ecological succession within recorded human history, which may have, for example, transformed a barren island into a mature forested island community. Although the last example has little to do with neoDarwinian evolutionary theory, it still fits within the first general sense of evolution as natural historical progression or sequence of events.

2. Evolution as Gene Frequency Change

Population geneticists study changes in the frequencies of alleles in gene pools. This very specific sense of evolution, though not without theoretical significance, is closely tied to a large collection of precise observations. The melanism studies of peppered moths, though currently contested, are among the most celebrated examples of such studies in microevolution. For the geneticist, gene frequency change is “evolution in action.”

3. Evolution as Limited Common Descent

Virtually all scientists (even many creationists) would agree that Darwin’s dozen or more famed Galapagos Island finch species are probably descended from a single continental South American finch species. Although such “evolution” did not occur during the brief time scale of the lives of scientists since Darwin (as in the case of the peppered moth), the pattern of biogeographical distribution of these birds strongly suggests to most scientists that all of these birds share a common ancestor. Evolution defined as “limited common descent” designates the scientifically uncontroversial idea that many different varieties of similar organisms within different species, genera, or even families are related by common ancestry. Note that it is possible for some scientists to accept evolution when defined in this sense without necessarily accepting evolution defined as universal common descent— that is, the idea that all organisms are related by common ancestry.

4. Evolution as a Mechanism that Produces Limited Change or Descent with Modification

The term evolution also refers to the mechanism that produces the morphological change implied by limited common descent or descent with modification through successive generations. Evolution in this sense refers chiefly to the mechanism of natural selection acting on random genetic variation or mutations. This sense of the term refers to the idea that the variation/selection mechanism can generate at least limited biological or morphological change within a population. Nearly all biologists accept the efficacy of natural selection (and associated phenomena, such as the founder effect and genetic drift) as a mechanism of speciation. Even so, many scientists now question whether such mechanisms can produce the amount of change required to account for the completely novel organs or body plans that emerge in the fossil record. Thus, almost all biologists would accept that the variation/selection mechanism can explain relatively minor variations among groups of organisms (evolution meaning #4), even if some of those biologists question the sufficiency of the mechanism (evolution meaning #6) as an explanation for the origin of the major morphological innovations in the history of life.

5. Evolution as Universal Common Descent

Many biologists commonly use the term evolution to refer to the idea that all organisms are related by common ancestry from a single living organism. Darwin represented the theory of universal common descent or universal “descent with modification” with a “branching tree” diagram, which showed all present life forms as having emerged gradually over time from one or very few original common ancestors. Darwin’s theory of biological history is often referred to as a monophyletic view because it portrays all organisms as ultimately related as a single family

6. Evolution as the “Blind Watchmaker” Thesis

The “blind watchmaker” thesis, to appropriate Richard Dawkins’s clever term, stands for the Darwinian idea that all new living forms arose as the product of unguided, purposeless, material mechanisms, chiefly natural selection acting on random variation or mutation. Evolution in this sense implies that the Darwinian mechanism of natural selection acting on random variations (and other equally naturalistic processes) completely suffices to explain the origin of novel biological forms and the appearance of design in complex organisms. Although Darwinists and neo-Darwinists admit that living organisms appear designed for a purpose, they insist that such “design” is only apparent, not real, precisely because they also affirm the complete sufficiency of unintelligent natural mechanisms (that can mimic the activity of a designing intelligence) of morphogenesis. In Darwinism, the variation/selection mechanism functions as a kind of “designer substitute.” As Dawkins summarizes the blind watchmaker thesis: “Natural selection, the blind, unconscious, automatic process which Darwin discovered and which we now know is the explanation for the existence and apparently purposeful form of all life, has no purpose in mind. It has no mind and no mind’s eye.”

http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2015/02/16/6-meanings-of-the-word-evolution/
 
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AV1611VET

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There was an interesting segment about this on the CBS National News tonight! The cave was so narrow they needed skilled and intrepid paleontologists who are very slender and agile. It was outrageously dangerous, daunting, and uncomfortable conditions, and yet they persevered to fulfill this invaluable mission. They were described as being "underground astronauts bolding exploring new frontiers." They had cameras on their bodies, and it was really cool to see what they saw. It's believed that the remains were deliberately placed in their location by their contemporaries. The dating hasn't been finalized, but it's preliminarily estimated to be around 2 million years old.

I just think it's really awe-inspiring that scientists are willing to put themselves at such tremendous risk and endure claustrophobic spaces, 99% humidity, and other difficulties to be in the service of mankind. It makes me think about Scott Kelly who is spending in a year in space to benefit science. They're awesome.
Thanks for reminding me why I don't watch TV -- (unless it's tennis or football).
 
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JonFromMinnesota

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Oh man, I can tell you're new here.

Watching you attempt to reason with AV and justi makes me feel sorry for you. And yet it's amusing at the same time.
Oh man, I can tell you're new here.

Watching you attempt to reason with AV and justi makes me feel sorry for you. And yet it's amusing at the same time.

I should just stop. If there was a timekeeper on "Amount of time spent trying to reason with someone on the internet" i'd be at an embarrassing level.
 
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justlookinla

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1. Fossil record (Filled with hundreds of transitional species), which by the way were accurately predicted what we'd find before we found it.

The fossil record does not offer evidence, based on the scientific method, that all of life was created by a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism.

2. DNA. Read up about human chromosome #2

The human chromosome #2 does not offer evidence, based on the scientific method, that all of life was created by a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism.

3. Observable studies (easily found by searching google)

There are no observable studies that all of life was created by a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism.
 
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Cearbhall

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The fossil record does not offer evidence, based on the scientific method, that all of life was created by a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism.
Would you like to present your superior compelling evidence of an alternative theory, or are you telling us that we're just digital products of the Matrix and there's no answer to be found?
 
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Ada Lovelace

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Thanks for reminding me why I don't watch TV -- (unless it's tennis or football).

Do you also avoid newspapers and magazines because they've reported on this scientific discovery?
 
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justlookinla

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Would you like to present your superior compelling evidence of an alternative theory, or are you telling us that we're a product of the Matrix?

I'm waiting for evidence for the worldview that we're simply a sack of chemicals produced by random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism.
 
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Cearbhall

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I'm waiting for evidence for the worldview that we're simply a sack of chemicals produced by random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism.
I'm sure you took science in high school.

This seems like the default to me. Can you give me a reason why I should add something else to my worldview? A meaning, purpose, or goal of the process of evolution?
 
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JonFromMinnesota

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The fossil record does not offer evidence, based on the scientific method, that all of life was created by a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism.



The human chromosome #2 does not offer evidence, based on the scientific method, that all of life was created by a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism.



There are no observable studies that all of life was created by a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism.

Please provide an explanation of why you think this isn't evidence and what your definition of what evidence of evolution would be to you.
 
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AV1611VET

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Do you also avoid newspapers and magazines because they've reported on this scientific discovery?
Yes.

I subscribe to Israel My Glory and the PsychoHeresy newsletter, and that's it.

I was invited to join B'nai B'rith ... but I declined.
 
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Cearbhall

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Yes.

I subscribe to Israel My Glory and the PsychoHeresy newsletter, and that's it.
And every thread on this site, going by your post count. I'm surprised you have time to read anything else.
 
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justlookinla

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I'm sure you took science in high school.

This seems like the default to me. Can you give me a reason why I should add something else to my worldview?

If you wish to embrace the faith-based worldview that you're nothing more than a random creation of a sack of chemicals, that's your choice.
 
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Cearbhall

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If you wish to embrace the faith-based worldview that you're nothing more than a random creation of a sack of chemicals, that's your choice.
The lack of faith is a faith now? Amazing. I guess you're a type of Muslim because you're definitively a non-Muslim.

Tell me, what claim do you think I'm making that leads you to call it a "faith?"
 
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AV1611VET

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Cearbhall

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I'm waiting for the amazing theory that blows macroevolution out of the water and explains how I got here.
I'm waiting for evidence for the worldview that we're simply a sack of chemicals produced by random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism.
I just realized, you're not actually taking issue with evolution. You seem to just have a bone to pick with atheistic evolution. Your objection seems to be more philosophical than scientific.
 
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justlookinla

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Please provide an explanation of why you think this isn't evidence and what your definition of what evidence of evolution would be to you.

No, you please provide evidence, based on the scientific method, for the view that humanity was produced by a random, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless mechanism. Simply claiming the fossil record is evidence, without explanation, is no evidence.
 
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