Dismiss Notice

Welcome to Christian Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
  • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
  • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting after you have posted 20 posts and have received 5 likes.
  • Access to private conversations with other members.
  • Less Advertisements! Members see fewer ads and have the option to upgrade their account to ad free!

We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured New Heaven and New Earth

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by JESUS=G.O.A.T, Feb 15, 2017 at 9:22 PM.

  1. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    529
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +114
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Apostolic
    Revelation 21:1-8King James Version (KJV)

    21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    Comment: bye bye fishies

    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    Comment: many suggest this references a new Heaven floating over Earth. Another thing though that's important for us to understand is that this city will be holy... the bible says "sin not" for a reason. God also informs us that "we are not called unto uncleanness but unto Holiness" to emphasize this as well, it's intrinsic that we take strides to, "be ye perfect as your father in Heaven is perfect". "Being then made free from sin ye became the servants of righteousness." We gotta be pure man. This is reinforced in verse 8.

    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


    4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

    Comment: No more pain or things that bring pain.....like taxes.

    5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

    Comment: "Old things pass away....and all things become new!!!" we gotta be new creatures in Christ JESUS so we can enter a new "world".

    6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

    7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

    Comment: This verse is instrumental because in chapter 20 of revelation verse 15 we see this.

    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    They that endured until the end the same shall be saved, we can't backslide or turn away. "some will depart the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils," that's in I believe timothy 4:8 . And if we do turn away then... "let the wicked man forsake his ways and the unrighteous man his thoughts and return upon the lord...."


    8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    Comment:
    Revelation 21:27King James Version (KJV)

    27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defiled, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    Anything that is an abomination in the bible isn't gonna be in there!


    Revelation 4:
    4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold

    10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

    11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

    Comment: the bible mentions I believe 5 crowns such as the crown of righteousness in the scripture and seem to suggest based off your calling and what you did you'll have a certain crown or some maybe multiple. Anyway though the point here is to show that we should humble ourselves and acknowledge why whoever is saved even has a calling, because of God. Because God intrinsically decided to send that saved individual on a mission to build his kingdom while on Earth.

    The purpose of the crowns aren't for personal glorification but for God to be glorified. "the glory of man is as a flower of grass and the flower thereof falleth away."

    Our purpose or calling isn't for us to be glorified but God. The bible says, "let your light shine unto all men so they may see your good works and glorify your father that is in heaven." Not me or you but God above. Remember the bible says "be not wise in thine own eyes but Fear the lord, and depart from evil."
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017 at 9:27 PM
  2. John Hyperspace

    John Hyperspace UnKnown ReMember

    Messages:
    2,051
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +966
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Faith:
    Christian
    I don't believe we should be understanding these literally. What is being meant by "sea" is, faithlessness: James 1:6: and this is of them who boast in the law for their righteousness: Galatians 3:12. In other words, there will be no more wavering faith, and all will come to full understanding of the grace of God in Christ.

    New Jerusalem; meaning, the church, or, Jerusalem which is above: Galatians 4:25-26 - again meaning, the habitation of grace as opposed to law.

    We have to be pure. The question is, how is one made pure? Through the perfect work of the grace of Christ, or, the works of law by Moses: John 1:17. Which is the narrow way leading to life? That is the question. Note that the scripture never says "Try to be holy" or "take strides to be ye perfect" or "try to be obedient" but the law says: Galatians 3:10-12: so which is the way of life, righteousness, holiness? By grace, or, by the law?

    True and the former things pass away even now in Christ: 2 Corinthians 5:17: one such former things: Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 9:1-2, Hebrews 9:15, Hebrews 10:9 likewise: Romans 10:4

    True, but backslide from what? From grace backsliding into law? Galatians 3:1-3, Galatians 5:4 so likewise: Hebrews 10:38-39: so the just live by faith, as written again: Galatians 3:11, Romans 1:17 but of the law: Galatians 3:12

    Even now it is not in the church; neither can it be, since it is only by faith that one can enter into the kingdom of God. A man who is under the law is convicted of sin and lawlessness: John 5:45: and cannot enter the kingdom, but only by faith in Christ for righteousness: Romans 4:5. And so those in Christ through faith and in perpetual sabbath from their own works: Hebrews 4:10: and so any man working his own works in Christ is guilty of working in the Sabbath, and is cut off from grace: Galatians 5:4.
     
  3. keras

    keras Proposed flag of the new nation of Beulah.

    Messages:
    3,038
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +372
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Pentecostal
    I believe that anything in the Bible that can be fulfilled literally, will be. Why not?
    Metaphors and allegories are obvious and most often easily discerned for what is actually meant. Sometimes 'sea', is used to mean 'peoples', but talking about the earth and the sea, as in Rev 21:1 means our planet and its oceans.
    It is incumbent on anyone wishing to change the plain meaning of any Bible verse, to prove their case from other scriptures.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  4. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    529
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +114
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Apostolic

    I don't believe we should be understanding these literally. What is being meant by "sea" is, faithlessness: James 1:6: and this is of them who boast in the law for their righteousness: Galatians 3:12. In other words, there will be no more wavering faith, and all will come to full understanding of the grace of God in Christ.

    My response:IF the verse is referencing a literal Earth and heaven then I don't see how there's a randomly metaphoric Sea.


    True, but backslide from what? From grace backsliding into law? Galatians 3:1-3, Galatians 5:4 so likewise: Hebrews 10:38-39: so the just live by faith, as written again: Galatians 3:11, Romans 1:17 but of the law: Galatians 3:12

    My Response: Paul wrote to saved churches... this doesn't mean that no one backslides or no one can turn away from God just that they were currently not backsliding and one with God. Now if you're trying to say something else here though let me know, might be misunderstanding your point.





    We have to be pure. The question is, how is one made pure? Through the perfect work of the grace of Christ, or, the works of law by Moses: John 1:17. Which is the narrow way leading to life? That is the question. Note that the scripture never says "Try to be holy" or "take strides to be ye perfect" or "try to be obedient" but the law says: Galatians 3:10-12: so which is the way of life, righteousness, holiness? By grace, or, by the law?

    comment: One is made pure through baptism and a filling of the holy ghost, and then one ust undergo a salvation process and while doing so continue to add things to their faith. By faith we have access to this grace you mention. And the author of our faith states verly verly I say unto thee accept ye be born again of water and spirit ye cannot enter the kingdom of God.
    2 Peter 1:5-11King James Version (KJV)

    5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

    6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

    7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

    8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

    10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

    11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


    Even now it is not in the church; neither can it be, since it is only by faith that one can enter into the kingdom of God. A man who is under the law is convicted of sin and lawlessness: John 5:45: and cannot enter the kingdom, but only by faith in Christ for righteousness: Romans 4:5. And so those in Christ through faith and in perpetual sabbath from their own works: Hebrews 4:10: and so any man working his own works in Christ is guilty of working in the Sabbath, and is cut off from grace: Galatians 5:4.[/

    My Response: You made sense until you started talking about the Sabbath tbh.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017 at 11:29 PM
  5. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    529
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +114
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Apostolic
    lastly though to finish my answer to your question righteousness, grace, holyness aren't individiaul things that you choose one and go. Like with acts 2:38 they all 3 work together in a way.

    We are saved by God's grace and mercy...

    "come out from among the and be ye separate and touch not the unclean thing"

    "being then made free from sin ye became the servant of righteousness"


    IN other words... because of his grace... we are able to be holy.... and by being holy... we become righteous. You come out from sin (anything against Christ) and if you are away from sin/unclean things that's holiness. ANd once you decide to do what is right under God that's righteousness.


    God has grace on us, an individual decides to act on that grace and turn away from sin and certain things (holiness), and he then fills up the holes in which sin/other things once belonged with righteousness or things of God.

    Sin=against Christ

    holiness= being separate sin and set aside for God.

    Righteousness=what is right under God replacing against Christ with like Christ.


    it's tough to balance both, a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
     
  6. John Hyperspace

    John Hyperspace UnKnown ReMember

    Messages:
    2,051
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +966
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Faith:
    Christian
    I don't believe we should be taking the references to "heaven and earth" literally. Look at how Paul expresses being in Christ: 2 Corinthians 5:17. Now, all things aren't literally passing away, we are not literally "made new". It's a metaphor. Otherwise everyone would miraculously become babies again.

    It is a question of, what does "backsliding" mean? I believe we're talking about people backsliding from justification through grace, back into justification through law. This was a big problem in the early church as evidenced through Paul's continual warnings that anyone trying to justify themselves through the law were "falling from grace" and "drawing back into perdition" and "departing the faith"

    Usually when people say "backsliding" they are meaning something like, a person who quits drinking, starts drinking again. I do not believe this is what "backsliding" means in scripture; but that in scripture, backsliding is leaving faith in Christ for justified, and attempting to do "works of the law" in order to be justified. In other words, someone who drinks and has faith in Christ for sanctification, justification is in a state of grace; if that man then believes he himself must "try" to stop drinking in order to be saved, he has backslidden from grace into law and has fallen from grace. He is no longer clean by the work of Christ, but has returned to the former filth of his own works for justification/sanctification/salvation.

    I believe "it takes effort and strides" is backsliding into perdition; the wide path to destruction; and falling from grace. Effort implies work on your part, which implies a reward reckoned of debt and not of grace. The scripture never says "try to be obedient" or "take strides to get rid of sin" or anything similar. The law doesn't say "try your best to live in these commands" it says "live them or die"

    I believe there are two ways: the way to life is to accept the grace of God, and be patient for God to do His work in perfecting us, which He does and will: the way to death, accept the grace of God, then backslide into "rule-keeping" of your own will and power (which will never do anything but condemn you for breaking the rules)

    The sabbath is spiritually fulfilled in Christ. Hebrews 4:9-11. The Sabbath in the rest of Christ is cessation from works of our own: Romans 4:5. If a man works his own works he is guilty of profaning the rest(sabbath) in Christ. The difference is, who is doing the works? You, or, God? In other words, a man can either say "You must do your own works to be saved/sanctified/justified" or "Faith in the work of God will save/sanctify/justify" - the former is way of death, the latter is the way of life. Meaning, if you say "I am trying to be perfect" then you are by your own words, not perfect. If you are saying "I am trying to be holy" then you by your own words are not holy. If you say "By His perfection I am made perfect" or "By His holiness, I am made holy" then there is no "trying" no "failing"
     
  7. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    529
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +114
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Apostolic


    I don't believe we should be taking the references to "heaven and earth" literally. Look at how Paul expresses being in Christ: 2 Corinthians 5:17. Now, all things aren't literally passing away, we are not literally "made new". It's a metaphor. Otherwise everyone would miraculously become babies again.

    My Response: tbh I would argue spiritually we are literally made new tbh. But what then do you believe the scripture means is my question. I mean the bible says he will destroy the Earth by fire.... that sounds like a renewal process to me tbh.





    It is a question of, what does "backsliding" mean? I believe we're talking about people backsliding from justification through grace, back into justification through law. This was a big problem in the early church as evidenced through Paul's continual warnings that anyone trying to justify themselves through the law were "falling from grace" and "drawing back into perdition" and "departing the faith"

    Usually when people say "backsliding" they are meaning something like, a person who quits drinking, starts drinking again. I do not believe this is what "backsliding" means in scripture; but that in scripture, backsliding is leaving faith in Christ for justified, and attempting to do "works of the law" in order to be justified. In other words, someone who drinks and has faith in Christ for sanctification, justification is in a state of grace; if that man then believes he himself must "try" to stop drinking in order to be saved, he has backslidden from grace into law and has fallen from grace. He is no longer clean by the work of Christ, but has returned to the former filth of his own works for justification/sanctification/salvation.

    My Response: Oh ok your first paragraph makes more sense now. Yes in the OT backsliding referenced those that turned away from the law. Oh and no I was using backslidden in this since as it applies in the NT it's more so departing the faith or losing the holy spirit. What should be understood though is backslidden simply equals=to turn away gradually from religion,christianity,faith whatever. So yeah you can use it in a NT sense because people do the same today.

    1 Timothy 4King James Version (KJV)
    4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;



    Acts 5King James Version (KJV)
    5 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

    2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

    3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

    4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

    5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

    6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

    7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

    8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

    9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

    10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.



    The sabbath is spiritually fulfilled in Christ. Hebrews 4:9-11. The Sabbath in the rest of Christ is cessation from works of our own: Romans 4:5. If a man works his own works he is guilty of profaning the rest(sabbath) in Christ. The difference is, who is doing the works? You, or, God? In other words, a man can either say "You must do your own works to be saved/sanctified/justified" or "Faith in the work of God will save/sanctify/justify" - the former is way of death, the latter is the way of life. Meaning, if you say "I am trying to be perfect" then you are by your own words, not perfect. If you are saying "I am trying to be holy" then you by your own words are not holy. If you say "By His perfection I am made perfect" or "By His holiness, I am made holy" then there is no "trying" no "failing"


    My Response: You're sorta saying the same thing I am saying... and sorta not? What I am saying is that a saved individual who has sanctified himself and received an anointing can say he's holy and he's saved and he's sanctified.


    But someone who isn't saved but seeking God is trying to be holy, trying to be saved, trying to turn away from sin.

    Now the only thing we are different on is the whole perfect thing, I believe we can be perfect but it takes time, only 2 were taken up by God becuase they that perfect. The bible says the righteous scarcely be saved for a reason.... being righteous is hard enough but being perfect is man, we can achieve this but it's not something you can do in a day or even a few years in a lot of cases.




    I believe "it takes effort and strides" is backsliding into perdition; the wide path to destruction; and falling from grace. Effort implies work on your part, which implies a reward reckoned of debt and not of grace. The scripture never says "try to be obedient" or "take strides to get rid of sin" or anything similar. The law doesn't say "try your best to live in these commands" it says "live them or die"


    My Response: Again you're saying what I"m saying but you don't realize it. I talked about holiness and such for a reason.. I believe you cannot sin in this life, I believe you can be clean in this life. But I don't believe it's automatic is my point. The bible says sin not, the bible says be holy, the bible says fullfill not the lust of the flesh. Yes we have to get to the point to where we aren't sinning and we aren't doing this and that....but that takes time. It takes a process of seeking God and you're not saved until you get the holy ghost and complete the acts 2:38 salvation process, how long it takes depends on the individual.



    Hm...how do I explain this.... lets say a guy weighs 200 pounds but he needs to weigh 100 to win 1,000,000 dollars. He has to exercise, lose weight etc. to get to 100 and then he will have 1,000,000. For another guy maybe he weighs 120 pounds so has less of a distance to go. Maybe a sinner for example is more deep in sin, so they won't accept the gift of the holy ghost or choose to be baptized as soon as the other, he has more stuff to deal with, more personal issues, more negative thoughts or demonic influence on his life.


    You don't just go from sinner to christian is my point there is an in between process, and i'm not saying you're saved in that process either.... you're not a millionaire until you get the 1,000,000. You're not filled with the holy ghost and baptized in JESUS name until you get baptized in JESUS name and get a filling of the holy ghost.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017 at 12:42 AM
  8. LastSeven

    LastSeven Veteran Supporter

    Messages:
    4,018
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +510
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    The sea symbolizes sin. There will be no more sin.

    Do you really think God hates fishies so much that there won't be any on the new earth?

    The new Jerusalem is God's people, not a bunch of buildings. That's why "she" is dressed as a bride. The people are God's bride.
     
  9. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    529
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +114
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Apostolic
    I mean he fed the fishes to the multitude so I'm sure he doesn't value them as much as us . And in genesis we are told organisms are just for us the don't serve any other purpose. They are cute sure but yeah. And no the new Jerusalem is heaven which is a place for the church or the bride. I respect your stance on this though but I disagree with it. I'm not saying heaven will have huge buildings and such I'm simply suggesting it's a spiritual location based off scripture
     
  10. LastSeven

    LastSeven Veteran Supporter

    Messages:
    4,018
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +510
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    He also gave us cows and chickens to eat, but the book doesn't say anything about there being no more livestock.

    The sea symbolizes sin. That's a fact. It makes no sense for the Bible to mention elimination of a body of water, when the elimination of sin is the entire point of the new earth. Think about it.

    And if you think the new Jerusalem is a bunch of buildings then you must believe that God is going to marry a bunch of buildings because "she is dressed as a bride for her husband". Makes no sense. Learn to recognize symbolism, and try to understand the point of the new earth. The point is that we will live with God and there will be no more sin. That's the point and that's what's being described.
     
  11. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    529
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +114
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Apostolic
    The book doesn't say there are livestock either though yet it clearly says there are humans. Think about that for a minute. The sea doesn't symbolize sin there is a verse that specifically talks about sin not much later and straight up list them so that wouldn't make any sense. I disagree with that but everyone has their take on it. And clearly I said I don't believe heaven is just a bunch of buildings it's a location where there will be no more sorrow or pain and steeets of gold. You're telling me learn how to recognize symbolism but you need to learn how to recognize what's real. We can debate this all day but clearly we have reached a disagreement so let's leave it at that
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017 at 10:13 AM
  12. LastSeven

    LastSeven Veteran Supporter

    Messages:
    4,018
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +510
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    I wasn't talking about heaven I was talking about the new Jerusalem.
     
  13. LastSeven

    LastSeven Veteran Supporter

    Messages:
    4,018
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +510
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    If you're not here to debate, then what's the point of the thread?
     
  14. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    529
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +114
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Apostolic
    To simply encourage others obviously about a better place we can get to if we stay with god, this wasn't meant to be controversial. I figured most believed in a new heaven (new Jerusalem) and new earth on here like in real life but I was wrong. I'm real life you encounter those with your view but not that much at least in Houston Texas. I've been in debate for years I'm fine with debating if it benefits me in anyway or I can learn something but usually debate tends to get nowhere online. If I do it online it's just for fun. You can't really impact views online or get anything from it.
     
  15. LastSeven

    LastSeven Veteran Supporter

    Messages:
    4,018
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +510
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    I disagree 100%. My views have been hugely impacted by debates I've engaged in and read here on this very forum. What I believe today is very different from what I believed the day I joined this forum.

    People don't typically say "oh, I never thought of that, I guess you're right and I was wrong" (although I have seen that happen as well) but usually people change their opinion on something gradually over time while hearing the other view point consistently, which eventually begins to make sense to them. Debate is definitely not useless, though you rarely see the benefits of it right away.

    Encouragement on the other hand only works when people already agree with what you're saying.
     
  16. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    529
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +114
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Apostolic
    I'm not saying debate in general is useless but debate online. And if it has changed your views online good for you but personally my views have been more shaped by people in real life then online. And that's what I'm saying most in real life agree with what I'm saying so I suspected it was the same on this website when it comes to what new Jerusalem is. You get what I'm saying now tbh but yeah I ageee online discussion has its place to a degree on certain topics though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017 at 11:20 AM
  17. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    529
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +114
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Apostolic
    I only figured there would be disagreement on who goes to heaven though , most disagree there that you have to be Holy all the time. some believe everyone goes if they just believe. So I suspected more resistance there then simply on a comment about fishes (which was mostly a joke) or a location after death
     
  18. LastSeven

    LastSeven Veteran Supporter

    Messages:
    4,018
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +510
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    Although most of the people in your circle / church probably are on the same page you might be surprised at the varying understandings of scripture around the world.

    That's one of the things I love about online discussions. I get exposed to a much wider array of ideas and interpretations that really force me to think critically about what I believe. The people in my church could be completely off base, but I'd never know that if I only ever chat with them.

    By the way, things like the meaning of "the sea" and "the new Jerusalem" are more important and integral to understanding God's plan than you might think. Don't dismiss them are mere "details".
     
  19. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    529
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +114
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Apostolic
    No I was referring to most religious people in Houston in general. But sure there are different interpretations I'm not disputing that, just I rarely hear yours. And tbh I agree new Jerlusum probably has some other meaning one such being city. When you think jerulusem you think of a place, a location. Of course there could be other implications with it though. And tbh I don't see much more with sea though but I'll look into it. I am 100% sure new earth means... new earth and new heaven means... new heaven though and this is a popular consciousness in multiple belief systems.
     
  20. JESUS=G.O.A.T

    JESUS=G.O.A.T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    529
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +114
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Apostolic
    I did more research on the whole verse and stuff through my study bible and online. For new Earth and New Heaven many suggest yeah it is as it is. But when it comes to the "sea" it gets complicated. You're right maybe could be benefit in discussing the sea, I find some say literal sea, some it represents a blanket of wickedness, and some both. My KJV study bible itself also suggest a literal sea but points towards the possibility of this representing a blanket of wickedness, so I'll study that more and make my own conclusion on that if possible.

    With New Jerusalem I've done this research already which is how I came to my conclusion, I wasn't sure a while back what to think about what New Jerusalem was but yeah. I might be open to discuss it though just on another thread or something but I just posted this to encourage those who maybe believe it mainly.

    I appreciate your response though and Ima keep looking on the site maybe I could benefit from a debate on here, it's been a while since I've participated in a formal debate online.