New guy is a bit confused...

[Rick Otto]

Howdy y'all.

I just decided to register after some brief lurkin', but I'm a bit confused after readin' the rules and the "How to become a Christian" page.

I'm extremely happy to see so many reformed brothers here, but it looks like the webmaster or host is Arminian. The rules (the way I read 'em) don't look like they would tolerate reformers, as we consider Aminianism to be heresy. Not to complain, but "wazzup wid dat?" Can anybody give me a clue?

Thanks.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Rick Otto
Howdy y'all.

Hey bro!  Welcome to the board! 

I just decided to register after some brief lurkin', but I'm a bit confused after readin' the rules and the "How to become a Christian" page.

I'm extremely happy to see so many reformed brothers here, but it looks like the webmaster or host is Arminian.

While I have not personally spoken to Dr. Loh about his beliefs I would tend to agree with you.  I will say that he is one of the most giving people I have ever encountered, regardless of his beliefs.

The rules (the way I read 'em) don't look like they would tolerate reformers, as we consider Aminianism to be heresy. Not to complain, but "wazzup wid dat?" Can anybody give me a clue?

Thanks.

Well, I am a student of the reformed doctrines and I will tell you "toleration" is not an issue.  Popular is a whooooole different ballgame.   If you are refomed, and I know there are varying degrees of that, you should know that it is God who changes the hearts of men.  This is just an opportunity to fellowship with other Christians and share our beliefs.  If you ensure that your motive is to enlighten you brethren, instead of prove their position wrong, you will have much success here, in that your times of fellowship will be fruitful in your sanctification.

Again, I welcome you and I hope to learn from your posts.

God bless

 

[Rick Otto]

Good answer.

But I'm sure I'LL be the one doing the learning.

That's a good point re: the difference between motives.

Even tho enlightment WOULD result in proving their doctrinal error, their salvation SHOULD remain our chief hope.

I only became aware of Reformationist theology about 2 years ago, and it saved my marriage as well as myself. We were caught up in charismania and following The Prophecy Club -Stan Johnson - Topeka, KS. All the contradictions were getting heavier & heavier.

One day, I started surfing, looking for info on speakers he had employed and stumbled across MichaelBunker.com. He had recently fell out w/Stan and had just decided to go public.

His testimony was all the evidence I needed to answer the questions I'd been having about Stan's ministry. Since then I have been studying the doctrines of election and grace, as well as church history, so now I'm XCatholic AND XProtestant.

Thanks for your kind attention.

Otto (I generally go by my last name, but someone else has already registered it).

 

[MizDoulos]

Originally posted by Rick Otto
Howdy y'all.

I just decided to register after some brief lurkin', but I'm a bit confused after readin' the rules and the "How to become a Christian" page.

I'm extremely happy to see so many reformed brothers here, but it looks like the webmaster or host is Arminian. The rules (the way I read 'em) don't look like they would tolerate reformers, as we consider Aminianism to be heresy. Not to complain, but "wazzup wid dat?" Can anybody give me a clue?

Thanks.

Hi, Rick ~ you can always contact Erwin Loh, the owner and webmaster, and ask him yourself. You can use the e-mail or private message option in your profile page.

Blessings,

Pat

 

[Evangelion]

Over here in Australia, Calvinism is practically unheard of. I didn't even know that Calvinism was still alive until I was about 21 years old.

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by Rick Otto
Howdy y'all.

I just decided to register after some brief lurkin', but I'm a bit confused after readin' the rules and the "How to become a Christian" page.

I'm extremely happy to see so many reformed brothers here, but it looks like the webmaster or host is Arminian. The rules (the way I read 'em) don't look like they would tolerate reformers, as we consider Aminianism to be heresy. Not to complain, but "wazzup wid dat?" Can anybody give me a clue?

Thanks.

I also suggest if you have questions about Erwin's beliefs that you should probably go to him directly.  A Pm would not be unnapropriate. 

I would say also though that many in the Reformed camp do not believe that Arminianism is a heresy.  One of my favorite authors RC Sproul is one of them.  It is one thing not to believe in their theology but it is another thing to call it heresy.  And I want to claim that Arminainism is not heresy. I do not agree with all of it at all but it is not heresy.  Pelagianism is heresy.  Monarchism is heresy along with gnosticism and the like but not Arminianism.  If you label it as heresy than most denominations are not Christian.  Catholics, Methodists, Many Baptists, pentocostal, Assembly of God, and many many more are all not Christians.  I do not believe that. 

 

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Blackhawk
I would say also though that many in the Reformed camp do not believe that Arminianism is a heresy.  One of my favorite authors RC Sproul is one of them.

Are you saying that you think RC Sproul is an Arminianist or that he doesn't believe that Arminianism is heresy?

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by Reformationist
Are you saying that you think RC Sproul is an Arminianist or that he doesn't believe that Arminianism is heresy?

RC is definitely not an Arminian but he does not believe that it is heresy.  Sorry for any confusion. 

 

[Evangelion]

I'm curious. Do Arminians believe that people are "saved" instantly, like the Evangelicals do?

 

[Gabriel]

Welcome, Rick!

Nice to have you.

I would assume that Erwin is not reformed, however, he is a great guy.  He puts alot of work into this site and he allows us to debate, freely express and fellowship in any way we see fit as long as we don't cross certain boundries.

As for the Arminian view being heresy, I wouldn't go that far.  We certainly agree on the fact that we all are in need of a saviour and that there is only one true saviour, Jesus Christ.  I think the part that causes such an uproar is Total Depravity and Election.  It clearly allows that man is powerless and most folks just don't like to be powerless.  I have talked to some that even believe that you are not truly saved if you can't understand and believe this doctrine.  I don't believe that is the case.  God is sovereign.  All things happen or don't happen or are allowed to happen by His decree for His purpose, so if God wants someone to understand this doctrine, they will.  If He doesn't, they won't.  If they don't need to, they won't.

Unfortunately, I am one of those that do tend to lose sight of the reason we are here.  I like people to see things MY way.  Sometimes I have to be reminded that it is not MY way, it's God's way and I need to step back.

All in all there are a great bunch of people here.  We don't always like each other, but we always love one another.

 

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by Evangelion
I'm curious. Do Arminians believe that people are "saved" instantly, like the Evangelicals do?

Sometimes yeas and sometimes no.  I believe that salvation is a process.  We are chosen before the foundation of the world, we are called or regenerated so as to recognize our sin and need for a saviour.  We confess and repent, we are forgiven and adopted into the family of God and we are continuously sanctified until we meet God in Glory.  Sometimes this happens very quickly, almost instantly.  Sometimes the process takes longer.  It happens according to His plan.

See the order of salvation:
http://www.hereistand.net/ordo%20salutis.htm

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by Gabriel
Welcome, Rick!  


  I think the part that causes such an uproar is Total Depravity and Election.  It clearly allows that man is powerless and most folks just don't like to be powerless. 

Just a note.  Arminius in his writings gives some of the most amazing portrayals of total depravity there are to be found anywhere.  For him the real difference in this part comes with his idea of previent grace.  Basically that while we are depraved God grants us ALL grace to be able to choose or not choose Him.  So he starts out with a totallydepraved man also.  now Arminians do not necessarily believe the same things he did.  Another example would be that he was undecided if one could lose their salvation or not.  Later Arminians decided that it is possible to lose salvation.  Again just a note.  Thought it would interesting.  I have read some of his writings and have learned much through them.  He was very intelligent and knew scripture very well. He actually started out as a Calvinist and his teachings are closer to Calvinistic theology than many today realize. 

All in all there are a great bunch of people here.  We don't always like each other, but we always love one another. [/B]

 

 

[Miss Shelby]

I would say, if I can throw my 2 cents in.. that if there is one thing I agree with on the Calvin side of things it would be total depravity. I only say that because it is very close to Original Sin which I believe in. As far as the Arminian view... I think Universal Grace is hit squarely on the head. But that I don't 100% believe any  of the rest points to an extreme measure.


Michelle