New California Law Would Ban the Bible

[expos4ever]

So you acknowledge that the title of your thread is misleading at best and deliberately misrepresenting facts at worst.

Of course it is misleading. It fascinates me how so many Christians think it's acceptable to play fast and loose with the facts.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

MOD HAT ON!

Closed for review!

MOD HAT OFF!

 

[.Mikha'el.]

MOD HAT ON!

Thread moved from Current Events to the Junk Drawer!

MOD HAT OFF!

 

[creslaw]

if that is it issue them maybe you should not have applied a moral judgment in post #111

It is my understanding from Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums that presenting homosexuality as normal and morally acceptable behavior for Christians is not allowed in this form.

Homosexuality, same-sex marriage, transsexualism and transgenderism may not be promoted on CF .
Promotion is defined as encouragement of the progress, growth, or acceptance of something including advertising and publicity.​

With regard to my post 111, it is the adolescents who believe their same sex urges are aberrant who seek professional help.
As for my own moral judgement, it is in accordance with CF guidelines.

 

[RDKirk]

China has just done a Real Bible Sales Ban!

Actual ban, not figurative at all.

China has been an atheist totalitarian nation for nearly 75 years now, and has forbidden bible sales all that time. Is this the first you've heard of it?

 

[creslaw]

The use of the Bible by Christian therapists as the primary authority for helping people with unwanted same sex attraction would be prohibited under the Californian bill. Passages such as 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and Romans 1:26-27 could not be used by professional therapists to help even adult clients who may wish to live a celibate life, or a heterosexually married man with children who wants to control his same sex feelings.

“Sexual orientation change efforts” means any practices that seek to change an individual’s sexual orientation. This includes efforts to change behaviors or gender expressions, or to eliminate or reduce sexual or romantic attractions or feelings toward individuals of the same sex." (AB2943)

.​

 

[Halbhh]

China has been an atheist totalitarian nation for nearly 75 years now, and has forbidden bible sales all that time. Is this the first you've heard of it?

The ban was recent. You can read about it. Until recently citizens could purchase bibles.

 

[SilverBear]

With regard to my post 111, it is the adolescents who believe their same sex urges are aberrant who seek professional help.

Having worked with many survivors i can safely say that its not adolescents seeking any sort of help

 

[RDKirk]

The ban was recent. You can read about it. Until recently citizens could purchase bibles.

I did just a few minutes of Googling to find the answer. There has been only a temporary period that the previous ban had been relaxed.

Bibles had been totally banned from sale or purchase in China from from 1949 to 2003--I had participated in some of the efforts to smuggle bibles into China. Interestingly, it's only Christian bibles that fall under that ban--other religions, no problem.

In 2003, one publisher gained permission to sell bibles under a special plan that tracked the purchasers (like registering gun owners). But of course, members of the underground home churches in China would not participate in that plan.

Internet sales, such as through Amazon, provided a loophole for uncontrolled bible purchases. It is that loophole that the Chinese have just closed.

China is now exploring creation of their own Chinese Christianity with a bible that the government will translate in an approved manner. North Korea is doing something similar. "If you can't exterminate 'em, co-op 'em."

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Not entirely true. For example, list of animals displaying homosexual behavior.

this would only show that gender/sexual dysphoria(assuming this is truly the issue) takes place in other species. it wouldn't refute the statement of homosexuality being against nature, just that even animals will go against their own biological make up.

there are heterosexual males in prisons who participate in homosexual acts due to sexual deprivation.

 

[Halbhh]

I did just a few minutes of Googling to find the answer. There has been only a temporary period that the previous ban had been relaxed.

Bibles had been totally banned from sale or purchase in China from from 1949 to 2003--I had participated in some of the efforts to smuggle bibles into China. Interestingly, it's only Christian bibles that fall under that ban--other religions, no problem.

In 2003, one publisher gained permission to sell bibles under a special plan that tracked the purchasers (like registering gun owners). But of course, members of the underground home churches in China would not participate in that plan.

Internet sales, such as through Amazon, provided a loophole for uncontrolled bible purchases. It is that loophole that the Chinese have just closed.

China is now exploring creation of their own Chinese Christianity with a bible that the government will translate in an approved manner. North Korea is doing something similar. "If you can't exterminate 'em, co-op 'em."

Yes, closed internet sales, and additionally pulled from shelves of large bookstores too, in April.

That's very interesting though you helped further back in time!

Wonder what they think to censor or alter in their new version of the Bible.

 

[creslaw]

Having worked with many survivors i can safely say that its not adolescents seeking any sort of help

Having worked with some adolescents and adults myself I am aware they have been helped to live a life free from homosexuality. Stories from those claiming to be harmed by therapy are mostly seeking to place blame rather than accept responsibility.

 

[SilverBear]

this would only show that gender/sexual dysphoria(assuming this is truly the issue) takes place in other species. it wouldn't refute the statement of homosexuality being against nature, just that even animals will go against their own biological make up.

it actually does refute the claim that homosexuality is unnatural. Things occurring in nature are by definition natural.


As for your ongoing misuse of dysphoria in this matter you have yet to show that the general dissatisfaction of dysphoria is attributable to homosexuality and not to the negative reactions of those around the homosexual.

 

[SilverBear]

Having worked with some adolescents and adults myself I am aware they have been helped to live a life free from homosexuality. Stories from those claiming to be harmed by therapy are mostly seeking to place blame rather than accept responsibility.

many of the survivors i have worked with admit that at one point or another they began lying about their orientation and lying about therapy. When asked why the answer is always the same, they pretended to stop being gay so the abuse would stop.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

it actually does refute the claim that homosexuality is unnatural. Things occurring in nature are by definition natural.

because you said so...got it.

animals being born without limbs happens in nature. this isn't natural, it's a defect.

 

[SilverBear]

because you said so...got it.

no, for the reason stated.

 

[creslaw]

many of the survivors i have worked with admit that at one point or another they began lying about their orientation and lying about therapy. When asked why the answer is always the same, they pretended to stop being gay so the abuse would stop.

When you work within one pool you will find similar dissatisfactions. Mostly I have come across people who want to be free from homosexuality because they believe it is contrary to God's Word, not because of any abuse.

 

[SilverBear]

When you work within one pool you will find similar dissatisfactions. Mostly I have come across people who want to be free from homosexuality because they believe it is contrary to God's Word, not because of any abuse.

I'm sure you don't know the extent or the limits of my pool of experience

 

[creslaw]

I'm sure you don't know the extent or the limits of my pool of experience

You described it yourself. The people you say you have had experience with probably would not be good candidates for SOCE. Christian therapists are now more efficient in identifying those who are highly motivated and most likely to benefit from SOCE, and more effective in helping clients to identify realistic goals.

 

[SilverBear]

You described it yourself. The people you say you have had experience with probably would not be good candidates for SOCE. Christian therapists are now more efficient in identifying those who are highly motivated and most likely to benefit from SOCE, and more effective in helping clients to identify realistic goals.

Over the years I've worked with a lot of survivors of "SOCE" and those survivors come in all sorts of forms and histories and that includes those who walked into "therapy" actually believing the claims the "therapists" made. Sadly these are the ones that end up most damaged by the process.