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1. Please state where Enoch is quoted in the NT other than Jude. Some say a passage from 1 Peter may be, but I find that a stretch.

2. I stand by by assertion that a quote from Enoch could be inspired while the majority of the writting is not. We see that every day when Pastors, Prophets, etc say something from God but overall what they say isn't inspired.

3. Because something is true doesn't mean it is inspired. Saying Jesus ate fish is entirely true, but not inspired at all. Additionally a book can be filled with Inspiried things, true things, and untrue things. Just look at the Bible. Each word in it is not true. I point to what the Serpent said to Eve for instance. However the story is true, and the relating of the story is inspired.



Ok that is a fair point of view...thanks for explaining. I have been looking for the direct quotes...I have read at least three or more...of course they are arugable.

Where does the NT use the Book of Enoch to support the position that the Nephilim were fallen angels?

Second, where in the OT is the book even mentioned?

I hold that the quote from Jude is inspired and true. Paul read from an altar of a Greek Temple, to an unknown God and spoke the truth of it, yet not all Greek Temples hold truth.

Does the book have to be mentioned in other OT books to be considered authentic? Show me where every OT book references another book and then that might be a legitimate complaint. What is a legitamate reservation is that aside from Genesis 6, there is no mention of the activity of these angels. I find that a little hard to believe.

For the record: I am agnostic concerning both the fallen angels mating with the daughters of men and the book of Enoch. I have read a good bit on the arguments for both sides and I believe it is inconclusive either way.

I do think the book of Enoch is a notable writing. Inspired? I don't know...it does contain Messianic prophecies but not in the first section which makes it suspect. One thing is for sure, the story it tells shaped the beliefs of both Jews and Christians alike. Some argue that it was an OT work of fiction and perhaps that is exactly what it is, and that because of the Genesis 6 reference people began believing that it was actually a real account and that Jude referenced it symbolically, not literally.
 
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nephilimiyr

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Titans were not from the cross breeding of the God's and humans, they were just a different class of divine being in Greek mythology. For instance, Prometheus was a Titan. Zeus and company were Olympians.
Whether that is true or not, my sources suggest differently, nephilim was still translated into the Greek as gegenes, which means an interbreeding of gods and human beings. You're argueing my caveaut, not my main point.

Here's a quote from Francis A. Schaeffer:
More and more we are finding that mythology in general though greatly contorted very often has some historic base. And the interesting thing is that one myth which oocurs over and over again in many parts of the world is that somewhere a long time ago supernatural beings had sexual intercourse with natural women and produced a special breed of people.

It's not just Greek mythology that has tales of gods breeding with natural women but many of the cultures of the world have very similar stories. Everywhere from Ancient Hindu myths to Jappanese and Celtic mythology has these same stories.
 
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Ok that is a fair point of view...thanks for explaining. I have been looking for the direct quotes...I have read at least three or more...of course they are arugable.



Does the book have to be mentioned in other OT books to be considered authentic? Show me where every OT book references another book and then that might be a legitimate complaint. What is a legitamate reservation is that aside from Genesis 6, there is no mention of the activity of these angels. I find that a little hard to believe.

For the record: I am agnostic concerning both the fallen angels mating with the daughters of men and the book of Enoch. I have read a good bit on the arguments for both sides and I believe it is inconclusive either way.

I do think the book of Enoch is a notable writing. Inspired? I don't know...it does contain Messianic prophecies but not in the first section which makes it suspect. One thing is for sure, the story it tells shaped the beliefs of both Jews and Christians alike. Some argue that it was an OT work of fiction and perhaps that is exactly what it is, and that because of the Genesis 6 reference people began believing that it was actually a real account and that Jude referenced it symbolically, not literally.

I agree that the lack of mention of a book in the OT doesn't mean anything per se, but a book's mention would give additional evidence as to it authenticity. We have no record of Noah bringing anything into the ark other than animals and people. The prophets and histories mention the books of the law several times, etc.

Sounds like you and I are pretty much in agreement. I tend to believe that the angel theory is true, but I find it's lack of support along with the arguments for other views make it far from certain.

As far as the Book of Enoch goes my biggest issue would be that it predates the flood if true (I am of course referring to the first section, the latter sections are highly suspect). But God does work wonders and it wouldn't be the strangest thing He did.
 
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Whether that is true or not, my sources suggest differently, nephilim was still translated into the Greek as gegenes, which means an interbreeding of gods and human beings.

Here's a quote from Francis A. Schaeffer:
More and more we are finding that mythology in general though greatly contorted very often has some historic base. And the interesting thing is that one myth which oocurs over and over again in many parts of the world is that somewhere a long time ago supernatural beings had sexual intercourse with natural women and produced a special breed of people.

It's not just Greek mythology that has tales of gods breeding with natural women but many of the cultures of the world have very similar stories. Everywhere from Ancient Hindu myths to Jappanese and Celtic mythology has these same stories.

An interesting quote, but still supposition and opinion at best. Commonality implies a relationship but does not provide a source. If this breeding was restricted to Canaan post flood, these stories would most likely be verbal stories passed down from preflood times (if true at all).
 
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I agree that the lack of mention of a book in the OT doesn't mean anything per se, but a book's mention would give additional evidence as to it authenticity. We have no record of Noah bringing anything into the ark other than animals and people. The prophets and histories mention the books of the law several times, etc.

Sounds like you and I are pretty much in agreement. I tend to believe that the angel theory is true, but I find it's lack of support along with the arguments for other views make it far from certain.

As far as the Book of Enoch goes my biggest issue would be that it predates the flood if true (I am of course referring to the first section, the latter sections are highly suspect). But God does work wonders and it wouldn't be the strangest thing He did.

I am actually more fond of the theory that the sons of God were rulers who took many wives. To me that theory makes the most practical sense. I must admit though, I love the sci-fi quality of the watchers theory.

As far as a writing dating back that far, I think it is safe to say that it would have been passed down orally instead of in writing. I think it is interesting that Methusalah died the day before the flood. He was alive during the time of Enoch and could have passed down this story to Noah.
It is also interesting that every major culture seems to have an account of these beings including the Sumarian culture.

Still part of me wonders if this whole thing is not just some De Vinci Code fiction of the old world that got way out of hand.
 
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nephilimiyr

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An interesting quote, but still supposition and opinion at best. Commonality implies a relationship but does not provide a source. If this breeding was restricted to Canaan post flood, these stories would most likely be verbal stories passed down from preflood times (if true at all).
I hope you realise that since I posted what I think Nephilim means, you have not given any arguement to it. Nephilim in Hebrew means a feller, not fallen ones, and in Greek it means the interbreeding of gods and natural woman. If you have nothing more to say other than you don't agree or believe it, I guess this discussion is done?
 
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BenAdam

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Interesting note:

Lamech, Noah's father, was born while Adam was still alive. So, Noah could have heard second hand from his father the entire history of man upto that point, much of it first hand.
 
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BenAdam

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I hope you realise that since I posted what I think Nephilim means, you have not given any arguement to it. Nephilim in Hebrew means a feller, not fallen ones, and in Greek it means the interbreeding of gods and natural woman. If you have nothing more to say other than you don't agree or believe it, I guess this discussion is done?

Nope, just don't have much time for rebuttel at this point. What does feller mean?
 
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Elijah2

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There are so many views and theories, and there is so much written by other ancient writers from other ancient civilisations.

We discuss here and there, forcing our beliefs from a sparingly few words that appear in Scriptures.

Well here is another incredible and very out of the ordinary theory or exercise extracted from many other sources. There is enough historical evidence to prove what others and myself believe. I will not offer great amounts of documentation, as it would take forever to expand. What I express isn’t open for debate, but can discussed. I’ve found that “truth” can be bizarre and far stranger than fiction.

As we most believe that the curse against Satan in the Garden of Eden, Satan was told: "And the LORD God said to the serpent, ‘Because you have done this, cursed are you more than all cattle, and more than every beast of the field; On your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life; And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, and you shall bruise him on the heel.’" (Gen 3:14-15)

As we most believe that Satan knew full well that this meant that a Messiah was on the way through Adam's bloodline. Now Satan orders his “fallen angels” to come down to earth to mate with the women. This was done in order to pollute the Holy Bloodline, and for no other reason. So, it was then that the “fallen ones” materialised into flesh. As we most believe that Satan cannot create life, but he had enough power to copy, rather than create, and Satan could only do whatever God allowed him to do, in order into fit HIS plan.

The end result is that the women of the “fallen angels” gave birth to giants (Nephilim). Evidence supports that that they were competently depraved and void of any human compassion, because they were giants they ruled over the earth with great fierceness and were seen in scripture as great and mighty warriors. There is some speculation that Nimrod was a Nephilim King.

When the flood came the Nephilim giants were killed off the earth. The gene pool of mankind was already completely corrupted. God then preserved Noah who according to the actual text was physically without blemish.

Now the spirits of the Nephilim roamed the earth seeking who they could devour, that is, in search of bodies to dwell in, these spirits are the “principalities, powers, rulers of darkness, and spiritual hosts” (Eph. 6:12), and are also referred to as “unclean spirits”, “evil one”, and “roaring lion”. After the flood the original fallen angels were thrown into chains of darkness.

"And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries." (Jude 1:6-8)


These fallen angels paid the price for their great crime that they committed, and I believe that once the damage was done more angels continue to fall. There is much historical evidence from other ancient civilisations that "star gods' came to the earth and interbred with mankind and taught mankind advanced technology in astrology, mathematics, and “new age” religious beliefs, and throughout records they would often say that they were leaving, but would return one day.

Their symbols are strewn everywhere throughout the world engraved in walls, pillars and upon tablets of “winged saucer”, “winged snake”, and “winged half-humans. I believe that the symbols of “half-humans” are the sign of children of those gods, the “fallen angels”.

In the Bible there are half human and half animal looking angels in heaven. This is exactly what you see in Egypt. I believe that the “star gods”, who are referred to in many other ancient records as other names, had hidden technologies that allowed them to manipulate the genetic structures of mankind.

Historical records do describe that the races of giants, the same described in scriptures did go away as they said they would. So where did they all go to? Well, I believe that they went into the earth, because there are so much historical and archival records that lean to giants living in caves. I believe that all the cave drawings of early man were in fact from Nephilim living in caves, and away from society at large, and off and on people over the last few thousand years keep on bumping into them. There is a long-standing legend that the earth is in fact hollow, and this is where a so-called Aryan, blue eyes, and red hair race of giants live. So, we can ask if the earth hollow?

"But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark; and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the water subsided. Also the fountains of the deep and the floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained; and the water receded steadily from the earth, and at the end of one hundred and fifty days the water decreased." (Gen 8:1-3)

During the Great Flood we read that the water came from the sky and from within the earth. Then the water disappeared, drained back into the empty subterranean caverns, and there must be miles and miles of empty subterranean caverns in the earth. There would be enough room to hide the post flood Nephilim giants whose population would not be limited by space.

The “Time Traveller” written by H.G. Well tells of a race of monsters that live in the earth and maintained a secret society that was technologically far more advanced than the surface people. Also in the story the underground people were cannibals. There is also a well-documented story by an Indian woman that stated “giant” people harassed and plaqued her tribe and they would steal their dead to eat them. They were red headed and lived in caves. In the end, the tribe burned them to death in the caves. The same story was told of many other Indian tribes that were harassed by “thunder birds” who would strike and carry off their people. One cave was found full of thousands of skeletons.

The winged saucer symbol goes way back into history. I believe the circle represents the flying saucer technology of the Nephilim. The natives would then associate it with the sun. The wings show that it was capable of flight. And the hundred-dollar question is: “Where is this hidden technology today?”

I strongly feel that the Nephilim have been working with mankind for many years, and all the conspiracy theories of Area 51, military testing areas that are mostly under ground, and people seeing strange lights over the areas, and hear other bizarre stories. Could the “star gods” be at it again?

The Nazis got involved with genetic research in the cloning of twin research. And today, the scientists are doing the same, and I began to wonder if a human is cloned, does it have a “soul” since it is not made by the hand of God but by man? If not, does this allow demons to be cloned?

The Nazi's were also into creating "electro-saucers" from a new technology, and this technology appears to come from a scientist, Nikola Tesla.


Another thing that the Nazis put on their agenda to explore the world for the Ark and the Holy Grail, which they believe was to be a bloodline. There I will end as because the myth goes very deep into the Illuminati, the 13th bloodline, the Holy Grail, and Merovingian bloodline.


Today, we see the rich elite that rule over us, and they feel and are treated as “gods of this world” and that we are basically cows that need to be herded. They milk us dry through taxes and the sale of fossil fuels that endangers mankind. These people are also referred to as reptilians, dragons of mythology of ancient civilisations.

In the following scriptures, the word “mighty” is the same word in Greek that is used in describing the Nephilim.

"Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness." (Isa 13:2-3)

"Proclaim this among the nations: "Prepare for war! Wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near, let them come up. Beat your ploughshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears; let the weak say, 'I am strong.' "Assemble and come, all you nations, and gather together all around. Cause Your mighty ones to go down there, O LORD.” (Joel 3:9-11)
 
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It's My understanding that the offspring would have died in the flood.

God Bless!

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

It does say "and also afterwards"




 
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nephilimiyr

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Reps to everyone for a tantalizing discussion. This has really gotten my " inclined to conspiracy theories" mind going now. :)
Although there are a bunch of conspiracy theories that springs forth from this belief, the basic belief in this is a theology, not a conspiracy theory. ;)

And yes, this always brings a tantalizing discussion.
 
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There are so many views and theories, and there is so much written by other ancient writers from other ancient civilisations.

We discuss here and there, forcing our beliefs from a sparingly few words that appear in Scriptures.

Well here is another incredible and very out of the ordinary theory or exercise extracted from many other sources. There is enough historical evidence to prove what others and myself believe. I will not offer great amounts of documentation, as it would take forever to expand. What I express isn’t open for debate, but can discussed. I’ve found that “truth” can be bizarre and far stranger than fiction.

As we most believe that the curse against Satan in the Garden of Eden, Satan was told: "And the LORD God said to the serpent, ‘Because you have done this, cursed are you more than all cattle, and more than every beast of the field; On your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life; And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, and you shall bruise him on the heel.’" (Gen 3:14-15)

As we most believe that Satan knew full well that this meant that a Messiah was on the way through Adam's bloodline. Now Satan orders his “fallen angels” to come down to earth to mate with the women. This was done in order to pollute the Holy Bloodline, and for no other reason. So, it was then that the “fallen ones” materialised into flesh. As we most believe that Satan cannot create life, but he had enough power to copy, rather than create, and Satan could only do whatever God allowed him to do, in order into fit HIS plan.

The end result is that the women of the “fallen angels” gave birth to giants (Nephilim). Evidence supports that that they were competently depraved and void of any human compassion, because they were giants they ruled over the earth with great fierceness and were seen in scripture as great and mighty warriors. There is some speculation that Nimrod was a Nephilim King.

When the flood came the Nephilim giants were killed off the earth. The gene pool of mankind was already completely corrupted. God then preserved Noah who according to the actual text was physically without blemish.

Now the spirits of the Nephilim roamed the earth seeking who they could devour, that is, in search of bodies to dwell in, these spirits are the “principalities, powers, rulers of darkness, and spiritual hosts” (Eph. 6:12), and are also referred to as “unclean spirits”, “evil one”, and “roaring lion”. After the flood the original fallen angels were thrown into chains of darkness.

"And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries." (Jude 1:6-8)

These fallen angels paid the price for their great crime that they committed, and I believe that once the damage was done more angels continue to fall. There is much historical evidence from other ancient civilisations that "star gods' came to the earth and interbred with mankind and taught mankind advanced technology in astrology, mathematics, and “new age” religious beliefs, and throughout records they would often say that they were leaving, but would return one day.
Their symbols are strewn everywhere throughout the world engraved in walls, pillars and upon tablets of “winged saucer”, “winged snake”, and “winged half-humans. I believe that the symbols of “half-humans” are the sign of children of those gods, the “fallen angels”.

In the Bible there are half human and half animal looking angels in heaven. This is exactly what you see in Egypt. I believe that the “star gods”, who are referred to in many other ancient records as other names, had hidden technologies that allowed them to manipulate the genetic structures of mankind.

Historical records do describe that the races of giants, the same described in scriptures did go away as they said they would. So where did they all go to? Well, I believe that they went into the earth, because there are so much historical and archival records that lean to giants living in caves. I believe that all the cave drawings of early man were in fact from Nephilim living in caves, and away from society at large, and off and on people over the last few thousand years keep on bumping into them. There is a long-standing legend that the earth is in fact hollow, and this is where a so-called Aryan, blue eyes, and red hair race of giants live. So, we can ask if the earth hollow?

"But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark; and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the water subsided. Also the fountains of the deep and the floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained; and the water receded steadily from the earth, and at the end of one hundred and fifty days the water decreased." (Gen 8:1-3)

During the Great Flood we read that the water came from the sky and from within the earth. Then the water disappeared, drained back into the empty subterranean caverns, and there must be miles and miles of empty subterranean caverns in the earth. There would be enough room to hide the post flood Nephilim giants whose population would not be limited by space.

The “Time Traveller” written by H.G. Well tells of a race of monsters that live in the earth and maintained a secret society that was technologically far more advanced than the surface people. Also in the story the underground people were cannibals. There is also a well-documented story by an Indian woman that stated “giant” people harassed and plaqued her tribe and they would steal their dead to eat them. They were red headed and lived in caves. In the end, the tribe burned them to death in the caves. The same story was told of many other Indian tribes that were harassed by “thunder birds” who would strike and carry off their people. One cave was found full of thousands of skeletons.

The winged saucer symbol goes way back into history. I believe the circle represents the flying saucer technology of the Nephilim. The natives would then associate it with the sun. The wings show that it was capable of flight. And the hundred-dollar question is: “Where is this hidden technology today?”

I strongly feel that the Nephilim have been working with mankind for many years, and all the conspiracy theories of Area 51, military testing areas that are mostly under ground, and people seeing strange lights over the areas, and hear other bizarre stories. Could the “star gods” be at it again?

The Nazis got involved with genetic research in the cloning of twin research. And today, the scientists are doing the same, and I began to wonder if a human is cloned, does it have a “soul” since it is not made by the hand of God but by man? If not, does this allow demons to be cloned?

The Nazi's were also into creating "electro-saucers" from a new technology, and this technology appears to come from a scientist, Nikola Tesla.

Another thing that the Nazis put on their agenda to explore the world for the Ark and the Holy Grail, which they believe was to be a bloodline. There I will end as because the myth goes very deep into the Illuminati, the 13th bloodline, the Holy Grail, and Merovingian bloodline.

Today, we see the rich elite that rule over us, and they feel and are treated as “gods of this world” and that we are basically cows that need to be herded. They milk us dry through taxes and the sale of fossil fuels that endangers mankind. These people are also referred to as reptilians, dragons of mythology of ancient civilisations.

In the following scriptures, the word “mighty” is the same word in Greek that is used in describing the Nephilim.

"Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness." (Isa 13:2-3)

"Proclaim this among the nations: "Prepare for war! Wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near, let them come up. Beat your ploughshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears; let the weak say, 'I am strong.' "Assemble and come, all you nations, and gather together all around. Cause Your mighty ones to go down there, O LORD.” (Joel 3:9-11)

Elijah2 did you write this? It's not in your usual font so that's why I ask. Otherwise most of what is said here I agree with, while the other parts I mearly have speculated on and maintain a "I don't know" position. Either way, thanks for your post, it was very well written! :)
 
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Although there are a bunch of conspiracy theories that springs forth from this belief, the basic belief in this is a theology, not a conspiracy theory. ;)

And yes, this always brings a tantalizing discussion.

It's just that this theology is playing a role in some of my conspiracy theories now. ;)
 
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Elijah2

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Elijah2 did you write this? It's not in your usual font so that's why I ask. Otherwise most of what is said here I agree with, while the other parts I mearly have speculated on and maintain a "I don't know" position. Either way, thanks for your post, it was very well written! :)

I tried another font, as I was getting sick of the old one.

Well, it's a number of thoughts by many people that was put together a long time ago, about five years ago, and I was checking the old files from MY DOCUS that I had saved on an old CD, and I found this one. As I read it, it made just as much sense as it did to me five years ago.

Plenty of fodder for thought!:)

Here is some Scriptures to consider, do you like that font?:

Rev 16:13-14 "13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty." (KJV)

One thing that frogs do very well is to hop.

Joel 2:1-10 1 "Blow the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; for the day of the LORD is coming, for it is at hand: 2 A day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, like the morning clouds spread over the mountains. A people come, great and strong, the like of whom has never been; nor will there ever be any such after them, even for many successive generations. 3 A fire devours before them, and behind them a flame burns; the land is like the Garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; surely nothing shall escape them. 4 Their appearance is like the appearance of horses; and like swift steeds, so they run. 5 With a noise like chariots over mountaintops they leap (like frogs), like the noise of a flaming fire that devours the stubble, like a strong people set in battle array. 6 Before them the people writhe in pain; all faces are drained of color. 7 They run like mighty men, (but they are not men!) they climb the wall like men of war; every one marches in formation, and they do not break ranks. 8 They do not push one another; every one marches in his own column. Though they lunge between the weapons, they are not cut down. 9 They run to and fro in the city, they run on the wall; they climb into the houses, they enter at the windows like a thief. 10 The earth quakes before them, the heavens tremble; the sun and moon grow dark, and the stars diminish their brightness." (NKJ)

 
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BenAdam

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Here's a question then,.....The parable about the wheat and the tares, the Lord talks about the wheat being the children of God and the tares being children of the enemy...the field being the world and the harvest the end of the world. Who is he refering to when he talks about the tares...who are these 'devil spawn'?

John 8:39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”
Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”
 
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