Elijah2

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As much as we can read Scriptures, we also need to consider much of archaelogical records of the past of other civilisations that were around with the Jews. The Books of Enoch also confirms much the same, but was not accepted by those who were canonising the books.

This is just information to get a better idea of other civilisations records.

The Sumerian Watchers are another story from long lost records.

In Julian Jaynes, “The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind”:

“...The astonishing consistency from Egypt to Peru, from Ur to Yucatan, wherever civilizations arose, of death practices and idolatry, of divine government and hallucinated voices, all are witness to the idea of a different mentality than our own.”

"The gods were in no sense ‘figments of the imagination’ of anyone. They were man's volition.”

Zecharia Sitchin, “The Stairway to Heaven”:

“Throughout Mesopotamia, from the earliest times of Sumer and Akkad, all lands were owned by gods, and men were their slaves. Of this, the cuneiform texts leave no doubt whatever. Each city-state had its own principal god, and the king was described in the very earliest written documents that we have as ‘the tenant farmer of the god'”


Zecharia Sitchin, “Genesis Revisited”:

“... The Akkadians called their predecessors Shumerians, and spoke of the Land of Shumer…It was, in fact, the biblical Land of Shin'ar. It was the land whose name - Shumer - literally meant the “Land of the Watchers”. It was indeed the Egyptian “Ta Neter- Land of the Watchers”, the land from which the gods had come to Egypt.”

Robert Graves and Raphael Patai, “Hebrew Myths: The Book of Genesis”:

“It was from that planet [Nibiru], the Sumerian texts repeatedly and persistently stated, that the Anunnaki came to Earth. The term literally means 'Those Who from Heaven to Earth Came.' They are spoken of in the Bible as the Anakim, and in Chapter 6 of Genesis are also call Nefilim, which in Hebrew means the same thing: Those Who Have Come Down, from the Heavens to Earth.”

“The Anakim may have been Mycenaean Greek colonists, belonging to the 'Sea Peoples' confederation which caused Egypt such trouble in the fourteenth century B.C. Greek mythographers told of a Giant Anax ('king'), son of Heaven and Mother Earth, who ruled Anactoria (Miletus) in Asia Minor. According to Appollodorus, the disinterred skeleton of Asterius ('starry'), Anax's successor, measured ten cubits. Akakes, the plural of Nanx, was an epithet of the Greek gods in general. Talmudic commentators characteristically make the Anakim three thousand cubits tall.”
 
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Supplanter

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Like I said, the Nephilim seem to be distinguished from the "sons of God" in Gen 6.

I understand the argument about the "sons of God" being some sort of human ruler. I don't think this is the actual case for Genesis 6 though. There are only two groups of people and one individual in the OT who are called God's son. There is Israel who is called God's son (Ex 4:22, Hos 11:1, Deut 32), there is the King of Israel (the messiah 2 Sam 7:14, Ps 2, 89, 1 Chr 28:6) and then there are the "other" sons of God.

I don't think that Gen 6 is talking about human rulers. We are given no indication in scripture that any group of people other than Israel are God's children. And we are given no indication that any individual ruler other than the representative of Israel (the king/messiah) is called God's son. There appears no group of people before Israel and no individual before the messiah of Israel that are adopted into God's family as His son or daughters.

There are several things that seem to indicate that the "bene elohim" in Gen 6 are some other class of creation that isn't human. The phrase, as I'm sure you're aware, "bene elohim" (sons of god) is ALWAYS used to refer to this sort of creation. Besides Gen 6, this phrase shows up here:

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God (bene elohim) came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God (bene elohim) came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord.
Job 38:7 when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God (bene elohim) shouted for joy​

Deut 32:8 When the Most High (Elyon) gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God (bene elim).

Psalm 29:1 Ascribe to the Lord, O heavenly beings (bene elim),
ascribe to the Lord glory and strength.​

Psalm 89:6 For who in the skies can compare to the Lord?
Who is like the Lord among the heavenly beings (bene elim),​

Psalm 82:6 I said, “You are gods (elohim),
sons of the Most High (bene Elyon), all of you;​


In all of those cases "son(s) of god" is not refering to humans. In Job 38:7 we see that these "sons of God" were present at the moment of creation and we know it's not refering to humans here because of the poetic device of parallelism that has been used. "Son of God" parallels "morning stars" as "shouted for joy" parallels "sang together". The same with Psalm 89:6 where "sons of God" parallels "who in the skies" and "can compare to the Lord" parallels "who is like the Lord". Humans don't parallel things in the sky (humans don't fly). Likewise Deut 32:8 is not refering to humans (see DSS, LXX and vs 43). Psalm 29 and 82 are a little more difficult and lengthy to explain, but neither of those are refering to humans.​

Gen 6 would have to be proven to be an exception to the rule in order for it not to be refering to the same thing. The only objection that can possibly be raised is that if you are not human you can't reproduce. But I don't think anything in scripture demands this sort of understanding, no matter how counterintuative it is to our sensibilities.​

Genesis 6 seems to be communicating the idea that at some time before the flood, a class of non-human beings married human beings and bore children. I don't think this is the reason for the flood or even the cause of mans wickedness, but I could be wrong on that. The text explicity says the judgment of the flood was due to mans wickedness, not because of intermarriages, though the wickedness of these intermarriages may be implied. I think the story is trying to relate when the flood was by saying that the flood happened around the time the Nephilim were on the earth and at the time when the bene elohim were marrying humans and having children. This time reference may have been clear to the original audience of Genesis, almost as if upon hearing this time reference they would have thought, "Ah, gotcha, so that's when Noah's flood was. The Nephilim were there then too. Ah, that's who the mighty renown men of old were".​

This may have been useful/interesting information to Israelites who had a run in with the Nephilim just before entering the promised land. The people probably wondered who these Nephilim were and where they came from and why they were so mighty:​

Num 13:33 We even saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak came from the Nephilim), and we seemed liked grasshoppers both to ourselves and to them.”​


I don't know for sure. In any case, I don't think the "sons of God" in Gen 6 are human.​


Great post. Good information and clear understandable analysis. :thumbsup:
 
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He put me back together

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And if they did it once, then what stops them now?

0_61_heston_charlton_nraobit.jpg
 
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Who says they only mate with women?

The male inhabitants of Soddom tried to have relations with angels. Just a little aside.

True, but they thought they were men and scripture seems to otherwise state the daughters of men when it comes to mating with these non-human entities. And the angels in Sodom did not desire such a thing. They were their on God's work, not pursuing the daughters of men.

However, I am sure that demons or evil spirits, however we wish to classify them, are involved in many sexual perversions today as well. I just don't know if their is a possibility for them to mate with humans.
 
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nephilimiyr

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Still, what prevented the angels from mating with women again after the flood?
Nothing prevented it from happening again, and the fact that we see the nephilim once again on the earth after the flood tells us that it did happen again. Genesis 6:4 tells us "and also after that", which is saying that the nephilim were on the earth both before and after the flood. Since the only living things that survived the flood were on the ark one should conclude that angels once again left their first estate, became physical and mated with females once again.

Also, some believe, as I do, that this verse is saying that it will happen again just before Jesus comes back a second time.
Matthew 24:37-38, As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.
 
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Nothing prevented it from happening again, and the fact that we see the nephilim once again on the earth after the flood tells us that it did happen again. Genesis 6:4 tells us "and also after that", which is saying that the nephilim were on the earth both before and after the flood. Since the only living things that survived the flood were on the ark one should conclude that angels once again left their first estate, became physical and mated with females once again.

Also, some believe, as I do, that this verse is saying that it will happen again just before Jesus comes back a second time.
Matthew 24:37-38, As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.

So, is there any reason for it not to be happening right now?
 
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Does the giant architchture of several of the old civilisations have anything to do with these giants of the bible ya suppose?
Sumerian cuniform tablests tell of a half man, half fish named Oanes, who came to land every day and helped them construct their civilisation, and returned to the ocean each nite...
Is this a nefelim too?
starbrite
 
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Elijah2

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Does the giant architchture of several of the old civilisations have anything to do with these giants of the bible ya suppose?
Sumerian cuniform tablests tell of a half man, half fish named Oanes, who came to land every day and helped them construct their civilisation, and returned to the ocean each nite...
Is this a nefelim too?
starbrite

It is interesting when you see some of the old ruins that the doorways are three time the height of a normal human of today. I don't think they made high doorways just for the movement of air. No doubt, those who roamed those ruins were over 15' tall.
 
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Elijah2

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“Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. And the LORD said, ‘My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.’ There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown (Gen. 6:1-4)

The “sons of God” are believed to be the same as the “Nephilim” and they walked with the “giants”, such as the dinosaurs. They are believed to be a hybrid race of beings and sexually compatible beings.

But, at the same time they “came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them…When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 2:1 & 38:7)

Then they lived after the Great Flood, as the Israelites were familiar with the Nephilim and other “giants” (dinosaurs) after their excursion into Canaan.

Thos “mighty men” were recorded during David’s encounter with Goliath and his four cousins in 2 Samuel 21:15-22, after all, why did David pick up five stones as he ran down the hill. I guess that one stone was for Goliath, and the remaining four stones for Goliath’s brother and cousins. The stones would be the size of a baseball, and when released from the sling would reach speeds of 100mph.

So, “the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose”, which is enough to tell you whether they were angels or human form beings.:)
 
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Does the giant architchture of several of the old civilisations have anything to do with these giants of the bible ya suppose?
Sumerian cuniform tablests tell of a half man, half fish named Oanes, who came to land every day and helped them construct their civilisation, and returned to the ocean each nite...
Is this a nefelim too?
starbrite

Well there is a theory that most mythology we see today was founded based on the Nephilim. I don;t think it is completely implausible that this could have been a Nephilim.
 
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nephilimiyr

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So, is there any reason for it not to be happening right now?
No, no reason, in fact I believe it is happening now.

Artist rendition from the book Longwalkers, written by Stephen Quayle, about a nephilim that was killed by US forces in the mountains of Afghanistan.
LongWalkers_cover_bg.jpg



 
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Like I said, the Nephilim seem to be distinguished from the "sons of God" in Gen 6.

.......(not inluded with quote)......



I don't know for sure. In any case, I don't think the "sons of God" in Gen 6 are human.​

This was an excellent post. The other part of this equation that has not really been explored in this thread is the cultural beliefs of the Hebrew people. Although the book of Enoch (a detailed account of the fallen angels mating with men) was not considered canon by OT Hebrew scholars, it was however pretty much universally agreed upon by those same scholars that the Nephilim in Genesis 6 were fallen angels who mated with men. It was a common belief in Hebrew culture.

In fact the place in the NT where it mentions women not praying without a covering actually has a huge cultural context, because it was believed that praying without a woman covering her head could tempt the "watchers" and this was a means of them preventing a repeat of Genesis 6.

I think it also important to note that the book of Enoch is quoted several times in New Testament Scripture.

In light of this fact, I believe there are two reasonable options of interpretation:

1. To accept that at least part of the book of Enoch (probably the first part that speaks of the fallen angels mating with women) is inspired writing because it is quoted from in the NT several times.

2. That the writers of the NT used imagery of cultural superstition to illustrate and communicate their message and piggy backed off of them to further the Gospel message.



I am personally inclined to believe both 1 and 2.
 
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This was an excellent post. The other part of this equation that has not really been explored in this thread is the cultural beliefs of the Hebrew people. Although the book of Enoch (a detailed account of the fallen angels mating with men) was not considered canon by OT Hebrew scholars, it was however pretty much universally agreed upon by those same scholars that the Nephilim in Genesis 6 were fallen angels who mated with men. It was a common belief in Hebrew culture.

In fact the place in the NT where it mentions women not praying without a covering actually has a huge cultural context, because it was believed that praying without a woman covering her head could tempt the "watchers" and this was a means of them preventing a repeat of Genesis 6.

I think it also important to note that the book of Enoch is quoted several times in New Testament Scripture.

In light of this fact, I believe there are two reasonable options of interpretation:

1. To accept that at least part of the book of Enoch (probably the first part that speaks of the fallen angels mating with women) is inspired writing because it is quoted from in the NT several times.

2. That the writers of the NT used imagery of cultural superstition to illustrate and communicate their message and piggy backed off of them to further the Gospel message.



I am personally inclined to believe both 1 and 2.

To accept that the book of Enoch was in actuality written by the Biblical Gensis Enoch, it would be the ONLY book or writing that exists from antediluvian times. That strains credulity.
 
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