Need advice about husband in bondage to sexual addiction

[chaz345]

IMO....if the reason a person in trying to change behavior is b/c of external reasons (another person doesn't like it..etc)...then, that changes will be gradual and sporatic (or behavior hidden).

If it is for internal reasons (like hating to be ruled by something that only creates misery)...then IMO...it will be sudden and the person won't want to go back (as long as, like Laurentia described) the person remembers from where they came & keeps a honest look at that...not like the Israelites, when they began to remember only the good things of Egypt and forgot the bad.

I disagree, based on my experience and the experience of other guys I've walked through this with. It takes time to give up something that you've grown accustomed to depending on, especially when what you are replacing it with isn't visible.

 

[FaithPrevails]

Seriously..if Im battling as we even speak not to feel the release and tempory pleasure of drinking alcohol and I dont do it..that is not somethign Im choosing NOT TO DO?

You are choosing not to drink, but you are still struggling with the addiction. Don't you see that? The simply act of having to choose NOT to do it indicates addictive behavior.

YOU are not going to tell me that right now I have NO CHOICE in the matter if I drink today or not.Or are you only on the side that if I DO drink it wont really be my choice?Becasue thats what is making me wonder..How can it not be my choice to drink today if I do..I can blame the addiction..but if I dont drink its not a choice either..

You do have a choice in having a drink today or not. You don't have a choice in it being a conscious battle as to whether or not to drink.

Its a decision you make ..to use or not use if you are an addict Faith. How hard it is doesnt change that fact no matter what you decide to do.

Dallas

Agreed. But, how hard it is does determine the success or failure of an addict to quit and stay quit. That is the point *I* am trying to make that seems to be rejected. Maybe I am misunderstanding?

 

[mkgal1]

"No one will give something up for nothing. There needs to be something better to replace the addiction with---something better to take its place."

One of the truest statements I have heard on this thread. This "something" is God. But one has to believe this for themselves for it to be true to them. And that takes a complete breaking away from the false beliefs they have received and accepted from the enemy. You cannot act apart from what you believe. So the question is...what do you believe?

True. I still hold to the idea that this IS a spiritual issue and has everythignto do with how your hubby views God.

In relation to your marriage, though, your hubby is choosing secrecy, hiding and lack of trust over a marriage based on trust, accpetance and companionship.

Since marriage is a reflection of a relationship with God (sort of thinking as I am writing)....I wonder if your husband views God as one we need to hide things from?? One that holds back good things from us? I wonder if just asking him directly..."are you happy in our marriage....or would you like something better?" If he says he would like something better....maybe ask him..."what would that be??" I don't know....maybe you have done that already....... ??

 

[mkgal1]

I disagree, based on my experience and the experience of other guys I've walked through this with. It takes time to give up something that you've grown accustomed to depending on, especially when what you are replacing it with isn't visible.

I think what takes the time is for the belief to actually ring true that there IS something better to take the place of the addictive behavior or substance.

 

[Conservativation]

But a few posts back you said:

Insecurity is a plague today, as big as any other psychological issue like depression and such.

So why shouldn't people seek recovery, if it is bad as you say it is?

Color me confused.

Nothing confusing about it at all. Insecurity shouldnt even lend itself to "recovery" a la Celebrate recovery

There is no contradiction to say X is a plague

And I have a problem with people being in CR with X


I dont even see the confusion

goodness lets make EVERYTHING fit pop psych Dr Phil recovery psychobabble. Lets forget any personal "just do it" and all find a big "group".....essentially this is whats happened anyway, cutting the very legs out from under our culture creating weakness and ignorance and apathy and no responsibility and relativism as morality....etc etc

 

[dallasapple]

But the change in actions and behavior is rarely sudden and complete.

No Chaz..not "rarely" ..You want to say rarely..so you dont have to make a sudden and complete change in actions and behaviors is that it?

I mean you DWELL on failure rate Chaz and it seems to me cling to the promise of continuing using a rate of failure as more of a permission to do so... rather than something you have a choice in the matter of.

If someone says I want to stop whatever it is..the person who is say their mentor on it shoudl say..O.K great...1st of all..its not even a possiblility for many to just 'quit" just like that..like all in one day..in fact its "rare"..so go ahead and continue to use because its unrealistic to expect otherwise out of you ....and just keep saying what you are doign is "wrong" and you really want to quit..try hard not to do it..but if you do do it..its not really your choice anyway..none of this is your choice.. its not your choice to use..and its also not your choice to not use.. you are an addict ..thats a disease that you did not ask for..I have much compassion and sympathy for that...therefore expect that it will be a long term "process" ..and many failures(which you have no control over and that is part of the process so its not even really your failure..lets not even call it that).and by the way..some people NEVER stop completley and remain engaged in the behavior and actions until it kills them or they die of other causes..but they die still engaging in use.Some people committ suicide..because this so hard..

Whatever you do ..dont listen to people that are trying to make you feel like you have any choice..or this is in any way a decision you are making either way..Dont listen to people telling wild haired stories about cold turkey quittters and all that..they arent beign "realistic".

Its a disease..you are an addict..you cant just "quit" its not easy...it takes a long time..expect to relapse..and possibly to never stop completely..

There..would you like to take your day 1 of sobriety chip?See ya tomorrow.

Dallas

 

[Conservativation]

What I mean is that I don't know of any addict who chooses an activity and thinks, "Hey! This would be a great thing to let completely rule my life, maybe even ruin my career and relationships!" They choose the activity b/c they enjoy it - it makes them feel good.



I agree. That said, the addictive pre-disposition can manifest in different ways for different people. My mom - it was cigarettes. Her sister and nephew - pain pills. Her other sister - alcohol.

So, while someone may know they have a family history of addiction, they may not realize how/why it will play out in their life. My ex is addicted to working out. He literally could not go the 4 days of our honeymoon without working out. If he went for more than 2-3 days without going to the gym, his whole demeanor would shift. Some would say that's a "healthy" addiction. But, it's not healthy if you can't live without it, IMO.



I think it's impossible to understand 100% what drives the mind of an addict when it comes to beating the addiction or succumbing to it. It seems easy to say "just stop" for someone who CAN stop.

But "just stop" works at a multiple of the rate of the main program...AA, which includes all its offshoots and copycats.

WHEN the person is ready, willingly or because they have no choice but death and stop (some choose death)....they STOP.

Its kind of a pointless semantic argument to then get into, "well you are still addicted you just arent using"....whats the POINT? Talk about dumping on someones parade....person says "Im an ex alcoholic, Ive been sober 7 years"
Response: Great, but dont forget you are STILL AN ADDICT and always will be

How destructive of a method. Its no wonder it fails. AND it breeds a cult like atmosphere where people can carry this new "thing"...the program....and yes some people get addicted to the program, trying to see addicts in everyone and selling them on the program.

New research into alcoholism....10 years or so ago it started coming out, that there ARE all these different things about drinking that totally destroy the old notion that was used to diagnose alcoholism.....either you are or arent...doesnt work anymore.

 

[Sasha37]

Mkgal1--Yes, we have definitely had some really good discussions about that sort of thing, and he is able to open up about that stuff. But he won't talk about God at all...the topic of God literally renders him speechless. Your assessment of how he sees God? You may be right on about that. I also wonder if he feels he may not measure up in God's eyes, so why try? This sort of would make sense in the way that this is how he felt in his relationship with his dad pretty much his whole life. And oftentimes, I think we see God and his view of us in relation to our own fathers, especially if we have not yet come into an intimate relationship with Him and seen Him fully for who HE is and how HE sees us...through His son. It's one of those barriers that keeps us from pursuing God I think if the relationship with our father was negative in any sense... fear of what we may find there, fear of being disappointed or being a disappointment. But I can only speculate because truth is...I don't think he even knows.

 

[mkgal1]

But "just stop" works at a multiple of the rate of the main program...AA, which includes all its offshoots and copycats.

WHEN the person is ready, willingly or because they have no choice but death and stop (some choose death)....they STOP.

Its kind of a pointless semantic argument to then get into, "well you are still addicted you just arent using"....whats the POINT? Talk about dumping on someones parade....person says "Im an ex alcoholic, Ive been sober 7 years"
Response: Great, but dont forget you are STILL AN ADDICT and always will be

How destructive of a method. Its no wonder it fails. AND it breeds a cult like atmosphere where people can carry this new "thing"...the program....and yes some people get addicted to the program, trying to see addicts in everyone and selling them on the program.

New research into alcoholism....10 years or so ago it started coming out, that there ARE all these different things about drinking that totally destroy the old notion that was used to diagnose alcoholism.....either you are or arent...doesnt work anymore.

To me....that is like reminding people over and over again that they are a sinner without reminding them they are saved by grace. It's comdemning, really.

 

[mkgal1]

Mkgal1--Yes, we have definitely had some really good discussions about that sort of thing, and he is able to open up about that stuff. But he won't talk about God at all...the topic of God literally renders him speechless. Your assessment of how he sees God? You may be right on about that. I also wonder if he feels he may not measure up in God's eyes, so why try? This sort of would make sense in the way that this is how he felt in his relationship with his dad pretty much his whole life. And oftentimes, I think we see God and his view of us in relation to our own fathers, especially if we have not yet come into an intimate relationship with Him and seen Him fully for who HE is and how HE sees us...through His son. It's one of those barriers that keeps us from pursuing God I think if the relationship with our father was negative in any sense... fear of what we may find there, fear of being disappointed or being a disappointment. But I can only speculate because truth is...I don't think he even knows.

I so agree that we often times see God and His view of us in relation to our own fathers...and if he felt he never was good enough for his earthly father......that may be a huge stumbling block in how he views our heavenly father.

Because of that, then maybe follow the instruction from the Bible that you let your actions speak for you, instead of any discussion about God. Make it about your marriage, instead of his relationship with God. SHOW him Christ through you....that God is kind and loving and wants good things for his life...not a God that takes the good from him and wants to restrict him.

 

[dallasapple]

You are choosing not to drink, but you are still struggling with the addiction. Don't you see that? The simply act of having to choose NOT to do it indicates addictive behavior

Dont I see that?I just told you that Faith..No one EVER said you will NEVER struggle again. Usually and in fact..the sooner you quit the better into the addiction ..and then after you STOP the behavior..as time goes by you sturggle less and less frequently and with less and less intensity ...But the choice to not use is completely YOURS.

To use or NOT use is your choice..the fact you are an addict once you are an addict is NOT a choice anymore.

Its also your "choice" to make changes in the way you think..and in your other patterns of behaviors that were part of your routine.simple things..yes "easy" things but for an adddict very crucial..Like for me eating breakfast and lunch..instead of skipping one or both..leaving during the times of day I might have otherwise started drinking..

Its not what ya'll make me sound out to be saying..I quit..then never think about it again.thats ridiculous and I never have ever insinuated that..Its a CHOICE and in my examples above a series of choices and changes in patterns of behavior.

And besides cigarrettes and some of the chemical addcitions that require some medications to "wean " you off ..Its ALL cold turkey..With inappropriate content..there is NO advantage to continuing to use..thats like saying an alcoholic shoudl go ahead and get drunk 3 times a week instead of everyday for a month..then 2 times a week for a month..then 1 ..then only get drunk once every 2 weeks for a few months..then once a month..and so on ..

Even though I HAVE read recently some new studies..that for some alcoholics..if their physical chemistry is completely corrected..they can actually safely drink in moderation ..like a "normal" person(not get drunk just have a few every now and then).I dont know I would have to see a lot more evidence before I would buy into that..I cant let my mind go there..

Dallas

 

[JaneFW]

But "just stop" works at a multiple of the rate of the main program...AA, which includes all its offshoots and copycats.

WHEN the person is ready, willingly or because they have no choice but death and stop (some choose death)....they STOP.

Its kind of a pointless semantic argument to then get into, "well you are still addicted you just arent using"....whats the POINT? Talk about dumping on someones parade....person says "Im an ex alcoholic, Ive been sober 7 years"
Response: Great, but dont forget you are STILL AN ADDICT and always will be

How destructive of a method. Its no wonder it fails. AND it breeds a cult like atmosphere where people can carry this new "thing"...the program....and yes some people get addicted to the program, trying to see addicts in everyone and selling them on the program.

New research into alcoholism....10 years or so ago it started coming out, that there ARE all these different things about drinking that totally destroy the old notion that was used to diagnose alcoholism.....either you are or arent...doesnt work anymore.

But former addicts do carry their addiction within. That's the point, I think. It's a "lest I forget". Because I know I carry my addiction within, I can't ever have "just one drink, because I'm not an addict any more - I'm cured, I'm free." No I'm not. I'm free and cured for so long as I don't drink.

Do you really think that there is a mid-point and that alcoholics can drink "some" alcohol? That is so wrong. I disagree entirely. Would you tell a drug addict to just have a little heroin? Of course not. So why would an alcoholic be different? It's nonsense. It's not an accepted school of thought at all.

 

[Sasha37]

I agree 100%. To be reminded you are STILL an addict your whole life? That goes against who God says we ARE in Him. There is a huge difference between outward behaviors and WHO we are.

 

[FaithPrevails]

Mkgal1--Yes, we have definitely had some really good discussions about that sort of thing, and he is able to open up about that stuff. But he won't talk about God at all...the topic of God literally renders him speechless. Your assessment of how he sees God? You may be right on about that. I also wonder if he feels he may not measure up in God's eyes, so why try? This sort of would make sense in the way that this is how he felt in his relationship with his dad pretty much his whole life. And oftentimes, I think we see God and his view of us in relation to our own fathers, especially if we have not yet come into an intimate relationship with Him and seen Him fully for who HE is and how HE sees us...through His son. It's one of those barriers that keeps us from pursuing God I think if the relationship with our father was negative in any sense... fear of what we may find there, fear of being disappointed or being a disappointment. But I can only speculate because truth is...I don't think he even knows.

I can understand this. There was some repeat sin in my life in my early 20s that I struggled with greatly. But, I kept going back to it b/c it felt like I would be judged for it even if I stopped.

 

[Sasha37]

mkgal1--That is exactly how I feel about it. That is what God is leading me to do, and I feel such a peace since coming to that conclusion. I think that is when we can really KNOW we are in His will. He gives us that complete peace about it that cannot be explained. It just is.

 

[JaneFW]

It's not about anyone reminding you - it's about you reminding yourself. It's a reality check, and it's what stops the addict from returning to their chains by thinking they are now safe, and that "that person" who they were no longer exists. That person does exist - they are that person, and if they don't remember that, then they will go back to their sin.

As an addict, I can tell you that this is true. I dont beat myself up, and I consider myself to be just as much saved by grace as anybody here, but I. am. an. addict. It would take only drink - that's all.

 

[mkgal1]

mkgal1--That is exactly how I feel about it. That is what God is leading me to do, and I feel such a peace since coming to that conclusion. I think that is when we can really KNOW we are in His will. He gives us that complete peace about it that cannot be explained. It just is.

His choice to live his life in isolation is like wanting to stay in Egypt.....to me, it's the isolation and separateness from you that is the REAL issue. Glad you have peace about it. I think you have discovered the root of the problem.

 

[FaithPrevails]

It's not about anyone reminding you - it's about you reminding yourself. It's a reality check, and it's what stops the addict from returning to their chains by thinking they are now safe, and that "that person" who they were no longer exists. That person does exist - they are that person, and if they don't remember that, then they will go back to their sin.

As an addict, I can tell you that this is true. I dont beat myself up, and I consider myself to be just as much saved by grace as anybody here, but I. am. an. addict. It would take only drink - that's all.

This.

 

[JaneFW]

Dallas, have you ever seen that book: Drinking: A Love Story? Oh my gosh. I downloaded it to my Nook and read it one evening. It is the story of every single alcoholic, ever. Because it's written by a woman, I could identify so closely with her, and the reading of that book came at a time when I was feeling sorely tempted. The descriptions of drinking (before she quit) were a little hard to read, because that is one of my triggers, but once I got past that, it was very, very powerful.

 

[dallasapple]

But "just stop" works at a multiple of the rate of the main program...AA, which includes all its offshoots and copycats.

WHEN the person is ready, willingly or because they have no choice but death and stop (some choose death)....they STOP.

Its kind of a pointless semantic argument to then get into, "well you are still addicted you just arent using"....whats the POINT? Talk about dumping on someones parade....person says "Im an ex alcoholic, Ive been sober 7 years"
Response: Great, but dont forget you are STILL AN ADDICT and always will be

How destructive of a method. Its no wonder it fails. AND it breeds a cult like atmosphere where people can carry this new "thing"...the program....and yes some people get addicted to the program, trying to see addicts in everyone and selling them on the program.

New research into alcoholism....10 years or so ago it started coming out, that there ARE all these different things about drinking that totally destroy the old notion that was used to diagnose alcoholism.....either you are or arent...doesnt work anymore.

Thank you CONS..I read yours after I responded to Faith..

Thats what they keep talkign about and now Im "gettign it" ..you cant "choose not to be an addcit..

I think I made my point CLEAR you can CHOOSE to stop the BEHAVIOR..STOP using..and it doesnt take a MIRICLE Im sorry..No offense to God ..or maybe hes the one that makes you realize one day YOU are NOT going to do it anymore..Its ALWAYS (almost) cold turkey in that regard..you could have as in mine and others I know have been thinkign of quititng for even years..maybe even made attempts before..

The whole ..Im a forever addict I dont get the point either..IOW you arent ever "politically" correct if you say "I used to be addicted to"..you for some reasn have to say "Im a recovering addict" FOREVER..

I do think people who have been addicted to a substance or behavior are at super high risk if they CHOOSE to engage at full blown addiction again..

But like I said I have been reading studies on specifically alcoholism..and apparently there are alcoholics that have proven they can drink and not get drunk..on fairly regular basis.

Some of it is to do with restoring thier body in recovery ..brain chemistry and vitamin deficiencies to normal..

Dallas