NDE of Dr. Richard Eby verifies old earth and gap theory.

[PsychoSarah]

I responded yesterday, and the Forum went down, lost it all.
How can we get it back from the auto-save drafts?

Unfortunately, the auto-save drafts on this site are rather limited, so you really can't get it back... especially not after posting a response to the thread in question.

 

[Arius]

You're getting too specific, since I am looking for any evidence of deities and/or an afterlife.

ok .. let me try again to post.
Yes I am getting specific, it's like if I had a fishing pole looking for tuna in the Alps, .. wouldn't you direct me to the right place?
One, you are looking for deities/demons and/or an after life as if our spirit could die? The body dies, not the spirit, and God is NOT a Deity.

Again, you are getting too specific.

We have to establish first things first, would be foolish to go on a quest without knowing the specifics, right?

Nope, haven't seen either of them, but I have heard of Religulous well enough to know that Bill Maher used specific techniques to make the religious people in that movie look especially stupid. Kinda like what Ray Comfort does when he is filming interviews of "evolutionists". The only strongly "atheist" things I watch are reactions to Chick tracts and trust me, those weren't going to be able to convert me under any circumstances.

Yes, I agree on Bill Maher's techniques, but I'd like to see him pull that on me? Same with Richard Dawkins, who is a true Evolution Theory magician. It's amazing how people fall for those same old tricks of his, like that "no species have ever speciated into another species!" and even goes as far as saying: "That is NOT what evolution is about, .. matter of fact, THAT would disprove evolution!" LOL
He is admitting that "Evolution never happens", yet at the same time uses it as proof for evolution, .. lol.
Yes, I used to love those Chick tracts, until I realized what was behind it. They were no different than the Billy Graham crusades, .. just enough to get people into the Christian Churches, .. or Any Church, .. even if it's into the Church of Lucifer:

Makes perfect sense, as you are demonstrating my point that most Christians view the deity they worship as a distinct entity. Not all religions are like that.

All Religions worship the same Deity who's the ruler of the darkness of this world who uses his principalities, powers to spread his spiritual wickedness in high places. Just look at who the Christian Ministers really mean when they say the word God: A Deity who resides in the supernatural realm, who uses mediums, Christian Diviners to relay his half truths and lies. Here are just some,

but I've seen John Hagee and the rest do it too. So you see, we have to get "specific".

I don't know anyone I can't find.

You know me, .. !?

That's a fairly easy thing to do.

You've been in an isolation chamber?

All tests that attempted to find a physical soul or "soul organ" in our bodies came up with nothing. Furthermore, interactions with the brain directly impact sensations and thoughts, and damage to it can remove aspects of ourselves entirely.

Looking for a physical soul? We're not being very specific, are you?

Yes, taking a bat to my computer can have drastic effects on its capability to perform what I request of it, but in no way does it effect me, spirit/soul. Same with damaging the brain, doesn't effect me/soul/spirit.

However, while I fully recognize our consciousness as a product of our brains, it's still really easy for me to visualize myself without a body. Conceptualizing something and belief are two separate things.

Just as I am not the product of my computer, neither am I the product of my brain. But what's in both (computer memory or brain) can greatly influence our character, that's for sure.
This is why it is imperative to come to know who we are?

Also, viewing the mind as coming from the brain is entirely separate from evolutionary theory. The theory of evolution in no way demands that our minds be a physical part of us in any direct sense.

Like any religion, the Evolution Religion is no different, they all must remain pliable, even quoting Jesus when needed. Evolution, like the others only demands that you believe in them. If believing in God/gods, spirits etc. helps you believe in Evolution, so be it, they don't mind.

Then there should be evidence that supports that claim. Please present it.

Here is the brain:

A complex computer system with wires going to every muscle in our body, .. which we the mind/spirit control. Unless you think our legs send electrical signals to our brain that they want's to walk, which then the brain OK's it, and sends the billions of signals to all the muscles that need to be stimulated for the leg to walk?
The body is no different than Hondas ASIMO robot, only infinitely more complex. The brain is the 'control center' where all the info from sensations from all over the body come in, and are sent to the proper locations in the brain, which we the mind/spirit read.
A little like a keyboard, and monitor.
So BB-Evolutionists are looking at it something like this: imagine another computer hooked up to your computer and monitoring all the action. The only thing they would not see is you typing on the keyboard giving all the commands. They say: "Look, we have all the evidence we need, the memory, which through millions and billions of years of accumulated input from its environment is what's controlling the whole computer.

Arius wrote - God is not a "being", but the Ground of Being, .. He Is "Infinite".

A meaningless concept, honestly. I can imagine something going on forever all I like, but that doesn't make it somehow easier to believe in (actually, the opposite).

Where do you think that this "something going on infinitely" is taking place in?
First, you are imagining/visualizing "something", so we know that's finite.

It's like this: "I can imagine infinite number of those Big-Bang imaginary universes, expanding into infinity with absolutely no problem"
How could the brain do that? Why would it do that?
But our spirit/mind can without any problem because we, us mind/spirit ARE Infinite.
The ONLY limitation we have is that God put us in a body, where we have our own individual free will.
It's truly an awesome concept that God has done, because whatever we do, or make believe creates who we are.

The movie "The Matrix" actually touches on this really good. Now if they would just take away their Religious background, indoctrinations, .. they would see God and His creation as it truly is.

Whoever was behind the Matrix movie, and I don't just mean the writer, but the one who dictated to the writer all this, knew exactly what he was doing. The Devil Knows.

This is why he said: "I will be like the Most High", .. and not as Christians think he said, that: "I will be the Most High (God)"

And he did achieve just that; he is "like the Most High" because the whole world was suckered into worshipping him, even though God spelled out the consequences of doing so. We are all little gods, creators, look how we are imitating our Heavenly Father with that Honda ASIMO robot, and with so many other things. And the things that we can't create, "well", we say: "no one has. It, .. it just popped out of nothing for no reason at all". My, my, .. we act like stubborn 2 year olds.

Nah, even if we have souls, our minds only contain so much information, making them finite.

You mean our brains, the parts where we keep our ST and LT memories. The mind doesn't "store info", it only "knows", or should I say: "we only know". This is why it is written that: "God knows all things"
.. but has to have books to keep records, and "reminders" like the Rainbow in the sky to remind Him of never to drown us with a flood again, .. and so on.

Funnily enough, the only dream I've ever had of heaven had no god in it.

That was "your heaven", .. it had no God in it because you made yourself believe that you have no need for God. See, you have made yourself not just a Child of God that you are, but "Like the Most High", .. where you don't need Him.

Again, applying traits to a being for which there is no evidence.

YOU my friend are the best evidence of your Creator God. But since He gave you free will (like he has), you have the option to deny Him no matter what evidence your are presented with.
And yes, you can even accept a chaotic, and senseless mess like the Big-Bang story in place of God.

Awkward social interactions are the story of my life, so don't worry about it.

Sorry if I make you feel "awkward". I do that to people.

The rest of your post was posted incorrectly, so I have to respond to it here. I'd encourage anyone to read up on some of the various religious texts that exist. The ones of the Greeks and Romans are very well written, those of the Hindus enchantingly bizarre... lots of good reading material there. However, they all have extreme flaws, hence why I am not a Hindu, etc.

Yes, only I would add to that and advise everyone not to join a Religion. May learn from them, but never join either them, or any of their god/gods.
Seek the truth in all things, and you will find God. As it is written: "He is not far from any of us!" Well no kidding, He is in us, all we have to do is open our "spiritual eyes"!

God bless you.

 

[DennisTate]

This is known as the Gap Theory.

Near death experiencer Kat Kerr was shown that there were millions of years from Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 1:2

That explanation begins at the 3:03:01 mark in this audio:

 

[dad]

I was impressed with the explanation given for the fall of Lucifer which would quite possibly fit with an earth that may well be 4.5 billion years old.

Apparently a lot happened between the original creation of the earth and the time when the repairing of the earth was made necessary due to an attempted coup d'etat by Lucifer and the angels who decided to follow him!!


.near-death.com/forum/nde/000/91.html

So where does the billions of years come from? You think some 'near death' experience is evidence?

 

[dad]

Near death experiencer Kat Kerr was shown that there were millions of years from Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 1:2

That explanation begins at the 3:03:01 mark in this audio:

Ha. The things people claim in visions, experiences and etc.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Ha. The things people claim in visions, experiences and etc.

It's not like you to (intentionally) mock something so Biblical.

 

[dad]

It's not like you to (intentionally) mock something so Biblical.

The messages Screwtape gave in Lewis's book were not biblical in any good sense. Any spirit that preaches something that is not in sync with Scripture is not of God.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The messages Screwtape gave in Lewis's book were not biblical in any good sense. Any spirit that preaches something that is not in sync with Scripture is not of God.

If you're paraphrasing Galatians 1:8, you should know that Paul is referring to spirits that contradict him, not contradict Scripture.

 

[dad]

If you're paraphrasing Galatians 1:8, you should know that Paul is referring to spirits that contradict him, not contradict Scripture.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul lays out precisely what gospel it is.

Ro 1:1 -Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Ro 15:16 -That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

1Co 4:15 - For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

2Ti 1:10 -Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

His gospel was the gospel of Jesus.

 

[TLK Valentine]

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Which he says right after "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

Paul lays out precisely what gospel it is.

His own.

That's why he wrote the latter to the Galatians. He had just been called back to Jerusalem to explain his actions to James and the other apostles, who had issues with his teachings.

While Luke, who was a contemporary of Paul's tries to pass the meeting off as copacetic, his own letters show the internal struggle within the early Christian church.

It's no coincidence that those letters were sent to the same churches where James had ordered missionaries sent -- missionaries whose goal was to "correct" the erroneous things they had been taught up until that point.

Ro 1:1 -Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Ro 15:16 -That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

1Co 4:15 - For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

2Ti 1:10 -Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

His gospel was the gospel of Jesus.

So he says -- and certainly so he wants his followers to believe... Or did you not notice how all of those passages are all about, in Paul's own words, "me, me, me..."

Here, let me show you:

Ro 1:1 -Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Ro 15:16 -That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

1Co 4:15 - For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

2Ti 1:10 -Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Here, let me add one more:

1 Corinthians 11:1 -- Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

See a pattern?

 

[dad]

Which he says right after "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

As cited, that gospel was the gospel of Jesus. It is the same one all Christians preach. Paul did not have some mini version of his own.

That's why he wrote the latter to the Galatians. He had just been called back to Jerusalem to explain his actions to James and the other apostles, who had issues with his teachings.

While Luke, who was a contemporary of Paul's tries to pass the meeting off as copacetic, his own letters show the internal struggle within the early Christian church.

Struggles..yes..like whether to go on a road trip with certain brethren or not. Not about the gospel.

It's no coincidence that those letters were sent to the same churches where James had ordered missionaries sent -- missionaries whose goal was to "correct" the erroneous things they had been taught up until that point.

Conspiracy theory. We all need to correct wrong things we were taught. Even today, and a good example is much of what we were taught in school. The way we know what is in error is by Scripture. Don't try to make it sound like there were all sorts of gospels floating around. No. One and only one. The good news about Jesus.

So he says -- and certainly so he wants his followers to believe... Or did you not notice how all of those passages are all about, in Paul's own words, "me, me, me..."

Here, let me show you:

Ro 1:1 -Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

There is that gospel of GOD again.

Ro 15:16 -That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

God has His peeps. Paul was the peep for the gentiles. That was his calling.

1Co 4:15 - For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

In other words

'I happened to be the worthless sinner that led you to the gospel of Jesus'

2Ti 1:10 -Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Nothing wrong with owning it! We should feel like the gospel is 'ours' if we preach it.

Here, let me add one more:

1 Corinthians 11:1 -- Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

He follows Christ, as should y'all. The reason they would follow him is because He followed Christ. In other words follow Christ too please.

See a pattern?

Yes. Christ.

 

[TLK Valentine]

As cited, that gospel was the gospel of Jesus. It is the same one all Christians preach. Paul did not have some mini version of his own.

Actually, James and the early Church leaders believed he did... and called him back to Jerusalem on more than one occasion to explain himself.

Paul didn't like that... at all.

Struggles..yes..like whether to go on a road trip with certain brethren or not. Not about the gospel.

Like whether to go on a road trip at all. Remember, the early Church still considered Christianity to be a sect of Judaism, and were not keen about preaching to the Gentiles, preferring to keep Jerusalem and the Temple at the center.

Paul rejected the Church fathers for his own interpretation, which he claimed he received from his vision of Jesus.

Conspiracy theory.

Biblical truth. It's all there, if you care to read it.

We all need to correct wrong things we were taught.

That was exactly what James was thinking when he sent those missionaries to the churches Paul had established.

Even today, and a good example is much of what we were taught in school. The way we know what is in error is by Scripture. Don't try to make it sound like there were all sorts of gospels floating around. No. One and only one. The good news about Jesus.

And tell me, does everyone who calls on Jesus get saved?

There is that gospel of GOD again.
God has His peeps. Paul was the peep for the gentiles. That was his calling.

Paul called it himself -- No man gets to God but through Jesus, and no man gets to Jesus but through Paul.

 

[dad]

Actually, James and the early Church leaders believed he did... and called him back to Jerusalem on more than one occasion to explain himself.

Paul didn't like that... at all.

Not for another gospel, I think the issue was reaching the non Jews or something with the gospel.

Like whether to go on a road trip at all. Remember, the early Church still considered Christianity to be a sect of Judaism, and were not keen about preaching to the Gentiles, preferring to keep Jerusalem and the Temple at the center.

Hangups they needed to lose. Jesus made it clear the gospel was for all the world and every nation.

Paul rejected the Church fathers for his own interpretation, which he claimed he received from his vision of Jesus.

He did. They were corrected. Not like Peter and the boys were suddenly perfect and all knowing soon as Jesus lifted off at the mount of Olives. It was only days before that Peter denied Him 3 times, for example.

That was exactly what James was thinking when he sent those missionaries to the churches Paul had established.

Whatever James may have had in his bean when he sent folks to help with the work in far flung places, the gospel of Jesus was involved, just as it had been in starting the churches there in the first place. Some plant, others water....

And tell me, does everyone who calls on Jesus get saved?

If they do it sincerely I would say yes.

Paul called it himself -- No man gets to God but through Jesus, and no man gets to Jesus but through Paul.

False. Paul never said he was the only way to find Jesus.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Not for another gospel, I think the issue was reaching the non Jews or something with the gospel.

Um, yeah -- that's exactly what I said. They claimed that his teachings were against theirs.

Paul himself, of course, thought otherwise.

Hangups they needed to lose. Jesus made it clear the gospel was for all the world and every nation.

IOW, they were wrong and Paul was right -- that's certainly what he thought...

He did. They were corrected. Not like Peter and the boys were suddenly perfect and all knowing soon as Jesus lifted off at the mount of Olives. It was only days before that Peter denied Him 3 times, for example.

Neither was Paul -- but that didn't stop him from offering himself as the role model for a Christian path...

Whatever James may have had in his bean when he sent folks to help with the work in far flung places, the gospel of Jesus was involved, just as it had been in starting the churches there in the first place. Some plant, others water....

And others spread the fertilizer.

If they do it sincerely I would say yes.

Paul said yes, as well -- Romans 10:13.

Jesus said otherwise -- Matthew 7:21

Seems that Jesus was pointing out that talk was cheap; you have to actually walk the walk... and for Jesus, that was simple enough (not necessarily easy, but simple) -- John 13:34-35.

Paul had a way of making simple things complicated -- you'd be surprised how many potential infractions there were to keep people out of heaven... even though all you ha to do was call upon the Lord.

False. Paul never said he was the only way to find Jesus.

No, he just told people to be like him. 1 Corinthians 11:1.

 

[dad]

Um, yeah -- that's exactly what I said. They claimed that his teachings were against theirs.

The issue was not the gospel.

IOW, they were wrong and Paul was right -- that's certainly what he thought...

Since Jesus had to give Peter a vision of unclean animals now being OK, yes, Peter was the guy who was corrected.

Neither was Paul -- but that didn't stop him from offering himself as the role model for a Christian path...

He said he was the chief of sinners. Yet He preached the gospel and had results, so of course People should have followed him in that.

Paul said yes, as well -- Romans 10:13.

Jesus said otherwise -- Matthew 7:21

As I mentioned, we need to be sincere when we call. Not all are.

Seems that Jesus was pointing out that talk was cheap; you have to actually walk the walk... and for Jesus, that was simple enough (not necessarily easy, but simple) -- John 13:34-35.

No. He was pointing out that some do not have their hearts right.

Paul had a way of making simple things complicated -- you'd be surprised how many potential infractions there were to keep people out of heaven... even though all you ha to do was call upon the Lord.

I won't argue that one.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The issue was not the gospel.

Agreed -- the issue was everything Paul was adding while claiming it to be part of the Gospel...

Since Jesus had to give Peter a vision of unclean animals now being OK, yes, Peter was the guy who was corrected.

And if we accept that part of Acts -- written by Luke, who was firmly on Paul's side of the would-be schism, it doesn't make Paul any less infallible.

Besides, weren't you the one who originally poo-pooed "visions"?

He said he was the chief of sinners. Yet He preached the gospel and had results, so of course People should have followed him in that.

Far more than they needed to follow James and his ilk in Jerusalem...

As I mentioned, we need to be sincere when we call. Not all are.

Jesus makes that distinction -- Paul does not. But I'll agree it can be inferred.

No. He was pointing out that some do not have their hearts right.

As Jesus said, talk is cheap.

I won't argue that one.

James did... Paul put a lot of stumbling blocks in the path of salvation that Jesus never did...

 

[dad]

Agreed -- the issue was everything Paul was adding while claiming it to be part of the Gospel...



And if we accept that part of Acts -- written by Luke, who was firmly on Paul's side of the would-be schism, it doesn't make Paul any less infallible.

Besides, weren't you the one who originally poo-pooed "visions"?



Far more than they needed to follow James and his ilk in Jerusalem...



Jesus makes that distinction -- Paul does not. But I'll agree it can be inferred.




As Jesus said, talk is cheap.



James did... Paul put a lot of stumbling blocks in the path of salvation that Jesus never did...

Visions from God are fine. They will check out with the dept of weights and measures...the bible. However when someone claims they had some experience in which some being told them about billions of imaginary years not in the bible, we can dismiss it.

As for your attempted exaggerations of the disagreements on minor issues some saints had, and trying to pretend it represented dueling gospels, well, that's a flusher too.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Visions from God are fine. They will check out with the dept of weights and measures...the bible.

Except these particular visions couldn't be checked againstthe Bible because the Bible wasn't written yet -- At least, not the New Testament...

As far as the Early Christians were concerned, the only Scriptures that existed were the Hebrew Scriptures, and they were quite clear on keeping Kosher...

Someone changed the rules... and who would have known it was Jesus?

However when someone claims they had some experience in which some being told them about billions of imaginary years not in the bible, we can dismiss it.

Now you're going back to your usual "evolution is nonsense" script.... a shame; we were about to have a productive conversation.

As for your attempted exaggerations of the disagreements on minor issues some saints had, and trying to pretend it represented dueling gospels, well, that's a flusher too.

You keep going on about a "new Gospel" as if that's what I was saying -- I wonder where you got that idea from.... it certainly wasn't from me.

 

[DennisTate]

Ha. The things people claim in visions, experiences and etc.

Indeed......

Mellen-Thomas Benedict's Near-Death Experience

I was in pre creation, before the Big Bang. I had crossed over the beginning of time / the First Word / the First vibration. I was in the Eye of Creation. I felt as if I was touching the Face of God. It was not a religious feeling. Simply, I was at one with Absolute Life and Consciousness. When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That’s a mind-expanding thought, isn’t it? Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event that created the Universe. I saw during my life after death experience that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating Universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by super computers using fractal geometry equations.

This sounds similar to chapter 13 of Stephen Hawking's Universe. Actually..... that chapter on The Anthropic Principle implied that somewhat like Oskar Schindler.... Stephen Hawking Ph. d. may NOT have been an Atheist..... but actually an Agnostic.... .with some pretty serious questions that could fit with some variations of I. D. Theory.

 

[dad]

Indeed......

Mellen-Thomas Benedict's Near-Death Experience



This sounds similar to chapter 13 of Stephen Hawking's Universe. Actually..... that chapter on The Anthropic Principle implied that somewhat like Oskar Schindler.... Stephen Hawking Ph. d. may NOT have been an Atheist..... but actually an Agnostic.... .with some pretty serious questions that could fit with some variations of I. D. Theory.

Wouldn't bet the farm of it. Since it has zero to do with the bible and Jesus as creator, and doesn't fit the future God told us about, it is very very safe to flush.