NDE of Dr. Richard Eby verifies old earth and gap theory.

[Episaw]

@PsychoSarah is right on this, how would you know it's God, or Jesus, you know the Jew Jesus, not the longhaired blond, blue eyed white Jesus with a halo or a white glow about him that a lot of Christians see in many cases.

Why would I take the word of an atheist who has no idea whatsoever about who God is and how he deals with people particular his own? It is a bit like a person saying I want to know all there is to know about the Republican Party and then asks Hilary Clinton to fill him in on the details. A Christian will get as about much truth from an atheist about christinity as a person will get from a Democrat about Republicanism.

The fact is an atheist is never right for the simple reason that the natural man CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT discern the things of the Spirit.

it does not say the natural man might be able to. It says the natural man CANNOT discern spiritual things.

Cannot means an inability to do something, the denial of permission to do something, an incapacity to do or attain something.

Do you see anything there in the definition that suggests that they can, because if you can, you can see things I cannot?

Why would an atheist claim the truth when they don't believe in it and don't want anything to do with it? All they are interested in is the gospel according to atheists and I have been told by more than one their gospel changes from day to day.

For anyone to understand God or any facet of him they need the direction and instruction of the Holy Spirit because the Bible is very clear.

Only the Holy Spirit can lead anyone into the truth. If anyone is spouting forth on anything about God, Christian or otherwise and he/she has not received their information from the Holy Spirit, why would I believe anything they say? It is totally illogical to do so. It is like saying to God, I don't believe what you have said in your word because I can get the truth from an atheist.

So let's look at the bottom line.

Atheists do not believe God exists so why claim to be an authority on something that does not exist. Not logical.

Atheists are not interested in the truth. All they are interested in is arguing with those who do know the truth. They are predators who come online doing Satan's work for him trying to devour weak souls. (It is in the bible).

Generally, atheists are quite dumb, because they think that by claiming all wisdom and knowledge which they do, everyone is going to flock to them like flies and say "we were wrong."

History shows they are quite deluded as there are in the region of 2.6 billion Christians on earth and 1 million atheists. Sounds like no one is listening to them.

If atheism is so wonderful, why has it been responsible for the death of 137 million people in the name of atheistic ideology last century and 55 million babies in the womb since 1967?

If atheism is so wonderful why is it that atheist organizations rarely appear in the list of those offering charity to others?

They bleat that they are very ordinary people and are as good as the next person and are kind to everyone. But overall, atheism produces monsters and heartless killers who will stab you in the back at the drop of the hat if it advances their lies and power.

When you investigate those things that atheists don't want you to know, it does not take long to discover in the nicest of possible terms that generally they are a bunch of ratbags who only are ever in it for what they can get out of it for themselves.

I realize that there are exceptions to every rule as is the case with everything, but they are so few and far between we rarely hear of them.

So....please do not assail me with atheists say this and atheists say that and atheists are right when they say this or say that because my reply will always be "go ahead if you want to call God a liar."

To end I will quote my source of truth and it says this....

Rom 3:4 No, indeed! God tells the truth, even if everyone else is a liar. The Scriptures say about God, "Your words will be proven true, and in court, you will win your case."

A small comment. Please note it says "God tells the truth..." not atheists. And if he tells the truth by extension everyone else is a liar.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Very interesting. You accept as unquestioned fact your theory attested to by 2% but you deny unquestioned fact attested to by people of all walk of life in all sorts of circumstances.

-_- no, I was using the inconsistency in the ability to recognize people by sight to point out that your method of asserting certainty that you saw a deity was extremely flawed. You act as if seeing Yahweh would be obvious to anyone that did, just on your own personal experience. Yet, the fact that you would recognize the deity so easily makes it more likely to be a personal delusion than a real event, just because of how improbable it is that this being would match your personal ideal close enough to be reliably recognized by you. Like recognizing a person based only on a description of them, it's unreliable. Unless you want to claim that you have seen Yahweh as frequently as people see their fathers, it's not a good comparison.

Very interesting too that your speculative theological piece about which you know nothing in experiential terms and which seems to indicate you know what you are talking about but we who have met God do not, is, to say the least rather comical.

Nah, you misinterpreted my point entirely, assuming that I was projecting my own inability to recognize people consistently onto others, when it was just a counter to your lazy response to other people asking you "how do you know it was god"?

A rather useful simile is me taking the dog for a walk one evening and getting back home telling others that whilst I was walking the dog I saw an apparition in white that looked like Jesus that spoke to me.

I bet your ideal of Jesus doesn't even look like his vague description in the bible, which is that of an unattractive curly haired Middle Eastern man.

And you say, "Don't be silly. Those sort of things do not happen."

And I ask "How do you know?"

I never said that quoted line at all. I'm asking how you feel that you could reliably recognize a deity you had never even seen before. And I partly wonder why you think it was the deity you believe in, because the bible says several times that living people that see Yahweh die from it (and some people don't... because biblical contradictions).

And your response is " it is questionable that you would recognize such a being very easily."

So I ask, "How do you know?"

1. why would a deity that makes an effort to keep itself hidden show itself to you, guy with a good enough, privileged life to dedicate time to debating people online?
2. the bible never says what Yahweh looks like, so how'd you know what it does look like? For all you know, you hugged Satan that was deluding you with the image of what you wanted to see (or, far more likely, your own mind).
3. Your story never mentions anyone else taking notice of the deity, making you the sole, unreliable witness.

"How do you know?"

The question I have been asking you, actually. If I felt certain that you hadn't seen a deity, why would I even bother to ask that question? I don't think it is likely, sure, but I'm not asserting that it is impossible. I've been a seeker for 8 years, so this type of thing greatly interests me.

And you say "Most people have a different idea of what a god would be like.

And I say "how do you know?"

I know people have different ideas about what deities look like because I've seen and heard the different descriptions. The faceless god sitting on his throne, the elderly man, motherly woman, formless embodiment of the universe, etc. I have no idea how you haven't seen the Christian god depicted more than one way.

Having unpacked what you so erroneously claim, which is standard fare for an atheist who does not want to acknowledge anything that is supernatural, you can see that you have no evidence at all for what you claim and rubbishing the experiences of others that you do not understand and don't want to understand as you can't cope with people who blow your theories out of the window is rather a pointless exercise other than as an attempt to sooth a damaged ego.

Lol, yeah, I have such ego, as I cry myself to sleep at night fearing death, oh how proud I am to be an atheist. Was the sarcasm thick enough for you? Plus, I used to believe in ghosts, so "supernatural" things aren't the issue. Although, apparently, you aren't aware that the term "supernatural" just applies to phenomena and items for which there isn't enough evidence to even demonstrate that they exist. It's not a property these things have. If deities do exist, and enough evidence was gathered to reasonably back it, they'd cease to be "supernatural".

And please don't deny all this as I have noticed over the last 10 years that every atheist that gets involved in a Christian discussion group, does so on the basis that he is his god's gift to the Christian community to point out the error of their ways.

Lol, I'm just here to improve my patience by debating politely with stubborn people that aren't necessarily going to be very nice to me. It's been rather effective.

You will have to forgive us if we are not head over heels in love with you and are agape at the power of your words as we see you nothing more than a domestic cat trying to teach a Lion how to hunt for food in the jungle.

XD hahahahaha, your idea of me is such an arrogant fool, and I am so self-loathing and filled with self doubt, that for anyone to conclude I view myself that way would demand that they not know a thing about me. Which, come to think of it, you don't

And you are going to come back and prove everything I have said by making some innate comment to justify your totally unscientific, unbiblical and fanciful notions of other people's valid experiences which you have no proof whatsoever are non-existent.

People claim to see miracles and gods all the time; people of conflicting religious beliefs, at that. Unfortunately, people just aren't reliable enough witnesses for it to be reasonable to take them at their word for these things. I guess I view it similarly as you would view tales of people being abducted by aliens; it's entirely possible it happened, but a verbal account is not enough.

Just to add fuel to your ever depleting fire, The last 10 books I have read have been about Muslims or written by Muslims who have been through the hell that is the Middle East, all of whom have converted to Christianity at great peril to their lives.

I have no idea why you think people converting to a religion that endangers them is somehow convincing of something... especially considering the fact that Muslims worship Yahweh to begin with. Jews, Muslims, and Christians worship the same god, but disagree on its wishes.

In every case, they ditched Islam and became converts to the risen Lord because they saw a vision or an apparition that they knew was Jesus.

XD you do know that Muslims believe Jesus was prophet, right? It's not like they don't believe in him at all.

The books detail that thousands of Muslims that have chosen to follow Christ because of a similar experience.

All of which were individual experiences they couldn't document with video, etc. You know, this begs the question of why Jesus doesn't just appear to everyone, doesn't it?

I guess I will have to get in contact with them all and let them know it was all a hoax so forget the Christianity bit, Islam is a safer bet because of the word of its founder Mohammad who went through life killing everyone who didn't do as he said and screwing little girls to show people what life was all about.

XD I have no idea why you think I would view Islam as better than Christianity or even try to defend it.

Better still, try atheism because they deal with scientific fact aka reality that is unreal as a plane that refuses to take off unless it is upside down.

Dude, I just don't believe in any deities because I've never seen sufficient evidence that any exist. If one poofed in front of me holding a bouncy ball I lost as a young child and never forgot about, I'd be a believer in a moment, but I would also recognize that my personal experience wouldn't be convincing to anyone but myself. I wouldn't know it was a god based on what it looked like, though, it would be based on actions.

And finally and apologies the post is so long, please take a note of your signature which says If you think you can win a debate by outlasting me, then you don't know the power of autism hyperfocus.

I've responded to longer, no worries.

I am autistic on the high-end scale and am noted for my hyperfocus. The difference between you and me is that you are running on empty as you only have yourself to rely on. I am running on full all the time because I have the creator of the universe advising me.

You should ask them for next week's winning lottery numbers, then. Or, ask them for a universal way to easily convince people that it exists, because this story you have isn't convincing anyone.

 

[Episaw]

Nah, you misinterpreted my point entirely, assuming that I was projecting my own inability to recognize people consistently onto others, when it was just a counter to your lazy response to other people asking you "how do you know it was god"? et. al.

Still running on empty I see.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Still running on empty I see.

So says the person that would neglect to respond to the vast majority of my post (which was quite long).

 

[Arius]

-_- no, I was using the inconsistency in the ability to recognize people by sight to point out that your method of asserting certainty that you saw a deity was extremely flawed. You act as if seeing Yahweh would be obvious to anyone that did, just on your own personal experience. Yet, the fact that you would recognize the deity so easily makes it more likely to be a personal delusion than a real event, just because of how improbable it is that this being would match your personal ideal close enough to be reliably recognized by you. Like recognizing a person based only on a description of them, it's unreliable. Unless you want to claim that you have seen Yahweh as frequently as people see their fathers, it's not a good comparison.

Nah, you misinterpreted my point entirely, assuming that I was projecting my own inability to recognize people consistently onto others, when it was just a counter to your lazy response to other people asking you "how do you know it was god"?

I bet your ideal of Jesus doesn't even look like his vague description in the bible, which is that of an unattractive curly haired Middle Eastern man.

I never said that quoted line at all. I'm asking how you feel that you could reliably recognize a deity you had never even seen before. And I partly wonder why you think it was the deity you believe in, because the bible says several times that living people that see Yahweh die from it (and some people don't... because biblical contradictions).

1. why would a deity that makes an effort to keep itself hidden show itself to you, guy with a good enough, privileged life to dedicate time to debating people online?
2. the bible never says what Yahweh looks like, so how'd you know what it does look like? For all you know, you hugged Satan that was deluding you with the image of what you wanted to see (or, far more likely, your own mind).
3. Your story never mentions anyone else taking notice of the deity, making you the sole, unreliable witness.

The question I have been asking you, actually. If I felt certain that you hadn't seen a deity, why would I even bother to ask that question? I don't think it is likely, sure, but I'm not asserting that it is impossible. I've been a seeker for 8 years, so this type of thing greatly interests me.

I know people have different ideas about what deities look like because I've seen and heard the different descriptions. The faceless god sitting on his throne, the elderly man, motherly woman, formless embodiment of the universe, etc. I have no idea how you haven't seen the Christian god depicted more than one way.

Lol, yeah, I have such ego, as I cry myself to sleep at night fearing death, oh how proud I am to be an atheist. Was the sarcasm thick enough for you? Plus, I used to believe in ghosts, so "supernatural" things aren't the issue. Although, apparently, you aren't aware that the term "supernatural" just applies to phenomena and items for which there isn't enough evidence to even demonstrate that they exist. It's not a property these things have. If deities do exist, and enough evidence was gathered to reasonably back it, they'd cease to be "supernatural".

Lol, I'm just here to improve my patience by debating politely with stubborn people that aren't necessarily going to be very nice to me. It's been rather effective.

XD hahahahaha, your idea of me is such an arrogant fool, and I am so self-loathing and filled with self doubt, that for anyone to conclude I view myself that way would demand that they not know a thing about me. Which, come to think of it, you don't

People claim to see miracles and gods all the time; people of conflicting religious beliefs, at that. Unfortunately, people just aren't reliable enough witnesses for it to be reasonable to take them at their word for these things. I guess I view it similarly as you would view tales of people being abducted by aliens; it's entirely possible it happened, but a verbal account is not enough.

I have no idea why you think people converting to a religion that endangers them is somehow convincing of something... especially considering the fact that Muslims worship Yahweh to begin with. Jews, Muslims, and Christians worship the same god, but disagree on its wishes.

XD you do know that Muslims believe Jesus was prophet, right? It's not like they don't believe in him at all.

All of which were individual experiences they couldn't document with video, etc. You know, this begs the question of why Jesus doesn't just appear to everyone, doesn't it?

XD I have no idea why you think I would view Islam as better than Christianity or even try to defend it.

Dude, I just don't believe in any deities because I've never seen sufficient evidence that any exist. If one poofed in front of me holding a bouncy ball I lost as a young child and never forgot about, I'd be a believer in a moment, but I would also recognize that my personal experience wouldn't be convincing to anyone but myself. I wouldn't know it was a god based on what it looked like, though, it would be based on actions.

I've responded to longer, no worries.

You should ask them for next week's winning lottery numbers, then. Or, ask them for a universal way to easily convince people that it exists, because this story you have isn't convincing anyone.

Wow, .. is that you my old friend Branko?
(Branko was my truest friend, and the truest atheist I have ever met. He loved me for the potential he seen in me, not judged me from the messed up person that I was throughout the years we known each other, working together on and off over a span of 40 years)
But no, you couldn't be Branko, he died over two years ago from a brain tumor, but you definitely think/talk like him.

My friend Branko is the one that stunned me enough with this short sentence he once told me at work that woke me up from the self delusion in my belief and defense of Christianity, ..it happened like this;

I was much younger then, and to cover up a screw-up of mine (CNC aircraft machining), I started to lie. He looked me in the eyes and said: "There, that's your Christianity talking!" .. that was it. It felt as if a brick wall just hit me face on, left me stunned for weeks, not just with guilt, but with the 'truth' that I began to see behind what he said.
He made me take a good look at my Christian Religion from his point of view, which was (what I would call) a true atheist; "he didn't believe in God" in the very same way that I understand, you @PsychoSarah do, which from what I can see is; looking at "God" from an organized Religious perspective. What I mean is, you try to see "God" from what the Christian Religions say and do, and I noticed that even your interpretation of the Bible is filtered through those glasses. (if I'm wrong, I would love nothing more than debate this)

Our friend @Episaw is a very good example of this also, he defends both God (which as you well pointed out) from what his Christian Religion indoctrinated him by, .. and as all Religions do, which is to make sure that we (members) don't see God in any other way but from what each individual Religion teaches, in Christianity. Also, (if you belong to a denomination) from what each individual denomination teaches.
It's the pictures, .. both literal paintings, and those ideological pictures that they imbedded into our memories, which have to be accepted on "faith", which over the years I learned that it was this dangerous unquestionable "blind faith", .. and not the faith that God requires which is; faith from/by evidence with substance.

My dear friend Branko was the one that made me "dare look" at other Religions including New Age ideologies. I went as far as joining, (well kind of) some New Age occults, or so-labeled by Christians, only not one of them could satisfy my curiosity about God. Each Religion offered some very interesting views of God, including todays popular Quantum Theory, which really is not much different than the rest of these Eastern Religious philosophies like:

• Hinduism.
• Buddhism.
• Jainism.
• Sikhism.
• Taoism.
• Shinto.
• Confucianism.
• East Asian Buddhism.

So I am very interested in this topic our friend @DennisTate started, and what you and Episaw are saying.

Thank you for allowing me to debate with you all, and for responding to my posts.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Wow, .. is that you my old friend Branko?

Who?

(Branko was my truest friend, and the truest atheist I have ever met. He loved me for the potential he seen in me, not judged me from the messed up person that I was throughout the years we known each other, working together on and off over a span of 40 years)
But no, you couldn't be Branko, he died over two years ago from a brain tumor, but you definitely think/talk like him.

Weird... considering I am one of the least "atheist" atheists on here.

My friend Branko is the one that stunned me enough with this short sentence he once told me at work that woke me up from the self delusion in my belief and defense of Christianity, ..it happened like this;

I was much younger then, and to cover up a screw-up of mine (CNC aircraft machining), I started to lie. He looked me in the eyes and said: "There, that's your Christianity talking!" .. that was it.

Is this a real person, or are you comparing me to a fictional idiot? Suggesting that being religious makes one a liar is stupid.

It felt as if a brick wall just hit me face on, left me stunned for weeks, not just with guilt, but with the 'truth' that I began to see behind what he said.
He made me take a good look at my Christian Religion from his point of view, which was (what I would call) a true atheist; "he didn't believe in God" in the very same way that I understand, you @PsychoSarah do, which from what I can see is; looking at "God" from an organized Religious perspective. What I mean is, you try to see "God" from what the Christian Religions say and do, and I noticed that even your interpretation of the Bible is filtered through those glasses. (if I'm wrong, I would love nothing more than debate this)

Nope, descriptions from people on what Yahweh is like are quite inconsistent, so I view the Christian god in a rather vague sense based on the few consistencies in the bible descriptions. However, the qualities the deity supposedly has have very little to do with why I don't believe in it.

Our friend @Episaw is a very good example of this also, he defends both God (which as you well pointed out) from what his Christian Religion indoctrinated him by, .. and as all Religions do, which is to make sure that we (members) don't see God in any other way but from what each individual Religion teaches, in Christianity. Also, (if you belong to a denomination) from what each individual denomination teaches.
It's the pictures, .. both literal paintings, and those ideological pictures that they imbedded into our memories, which have to be accepted on "faith", which over the years I learned that it was this dangerous unquestionable "blind faith", .. and not the faith that God requires which is; faith from/by evidence with substance.

If the deity wanted "faith by evidence", the most obvious course of action would be to be physically apparent for all to see. And I don't mean "the complexity of life" or other such things, I mean physically there, all the time, I could walk up to god and say hi if I felt like it and I would get a "hi" back.

Also, I am not Episaw's friend. I have to know a person before they are my friend.

My dear friend Branko was the one that made me "dare look" at other Religions including New Age ideologies. I went as far as joining, (well kind of) some New Age occults, or so-labeled by Christians, only not one of them could satisfy my curiosity about God. Each Religion offered some very interesting views of God, including todays popular Quantum Theory, which really is not much different than the rest of these Eastern Religious philosophies like:

• Hinduism.
• Buddhism.
• Jainism.
• Sikhism.
• Taoism.
• Shinto.
• Confucianism.
• East Asian Buddhism.

So I am very interested in this topic our friend @DennisTate started, and what you and Episaw are saying.

Lol, what? I have never heard of an atheist causing someone to join a religious cult, but I guess there is a first time for everything.[/QUOTE]

 

[Episaw]

So says the person that would neglect to respond to the vast majority of my post (which was quite long).

Your response is from someone who is running on empty.

Why would I want to respond to a bunch of lies

Your reply was addressed to XD. I am not XD.

 

[Arius]

Who?

Weird... considering I am one of the least "atheist" atheists on here.

Weird, .. not to me, because you still think you are an atheist. Branko used logic (very similar to Spock on Star Trek), so he seen no use for God. The problem was that he's concept of God was all wrong, as I said, he viewed God from the perspective of Organized Religion.

Is this a real person, or are you comparing me to a fictional idiot? Suggesting that being religious makes one a liar is stupid.

Lol, .. ok, so you're not quite (intelligent) as him, you cling to the belief that Religion teaches truth since they always quote positive things. I used to justify myself by "quoting positive things" too, especially quoting the Bible to win over my friend Branko's atheistic ideology. But, .. as he proved to me, I was not just a liar, but a hypocrite too.
I was a Christian, .. how dare he!?

Nope, descriptions from people on what Yahweh is like are quite inconsistent, so I view the Christian god in a rather vague sense based on the few consistencies in the bible descriptions. However, the qualities the deity supposedly has have very little to do with why I don't believe in it.

There you go, .. "you don't believe in 'it'", straight from mainstream Christian ideology where they understand God as an it, like my friend.

If the deity wanted "faith by evidence", the most obvious course of action would be to be physically apparent for all to see. And I don't mean "the complexity of life" or other such things, I mean physically there, all the time, I could walk up to god and say hi if I felt like it and I would get a "hi" back.

I understand; "not from the complexity of life", .. but just like Episaw and other Christians you seek a physical god, .. only those Christians who seen God, not only said "hi" to Him, but gave him a hug too! So just like Christians, you also seek a physical god, an "it". But unlike Christians who were exposed to a lot of pictures, drawings and paintings of god, you don't know what that "it" should look like, so you're really in a complex predicament buddy! How would you know it's God and not the Devil you're saying "hi" to?

Also, I am not Episaw's friend. I have to know a person before they are my friend.

I'm the opposite, you are my friend first, and the more I know you, the closer I feel to you despite how you feel about me, or much you may say (or think) you hate me.
I had debating atheist friends for many years that literally cussed me out, belittled me, mocked me so I would stop calling them my friends, .. lol.
One of them, the atheist leader on that Forum became my friend, but still hated my ideology and my God, and the Bible. He called me something like "My best friend nemesis" .. or something like that, he was very intelligent and used big words in a unique style (I would say a heavy Southern-Yoda accent) that took me a whole year to fully understand. I have learned a great deal from him, and from my other atheists "frienemies" on that Forum, .. I miss them so much.

Lol, what? I have never heard of an atheist causing someone to join a religious cult, but I guess there is a first time for everything.

He seen and understood that I was on a spiritual quest to know God, and knowing me for a long time he knew that nothing on earth would derail me from my quest. So he suggested some very interesting cults that he felt made some sense, one he read about from an article in his Playboy Magazine. He didn't care about God either way, and because of his In-laws, come to hate Religion. He was very knowledgeable about many things, .. if not, he would genuinely look into it just for me.

But yes, initially you sounded like him, but the more we communicate, I do see some big differences.

 

[Episaw]

Weird, .. not to me, because you still think you are an atheist. Branko used logic (very similar to Spock on Star Trek), so he seen no use for God. The problem was that he's concept of God was all wrong, as I said, he viewed God from the perspective of Organized Religion.

I have often wondered why atheists seem to get God all wrong. I think that you have provided me with the answer.

As you say, they have this one-dimensional view of God through organized religion.

Add to that the New Testament does not exist for atheists because there is not much there they can bash God with. I think it shows up the mindset of atheists that they focus on the bad, the ugly and the cruel all the time and completely ignore the supreme sacrifice Jesus made for us on the cross.

This mindset blinds them to reality and prevents them from exploring how faith in God has impacted millions of people around the world. Unless something has a formula, it doesn't exist for them.

 

[Arius]

Why would I take the word of an atheist who has no idea whatsoever about who God is and how he deals with people particular his own? It is a bit like a person saying I want to know all there is to know about the Republican Party and then asks Hilary Clinton to fill him in on the details.

Which is why I don't vote. But I think you're wrong about the Democrats not knowing about the Republicans, .. "a kingdom divided cannot stand", remember? Both parties are the same, on the same side, the same agendas, same leaders. For a Bible reader like yourself I'm surprised you didn't see this a long time ago!?

A Christian will get as about much truth from an atheist about christinity as a person will get from a Democrat about Republicanism.

Theist/atheist are two sides of the same coin, just as Democrats/Republicans are, the coin is Religion, and no Religion knows our Infinite and Eternal Creator "I Am".
My concern is the Truth regarding what the Bible says about God, and I will listen to theist/atheist agnostic, Hindu, Muslim or Buddha himself to learn more about Him. You will never find God by staying in Christianity, .. or ANY Organized Religion. At least there are a few genuine atheists who dare step outside their box and think, question, and you just might benefit from what they have to say!?

The fact is an atheist is never right for the simple reason that the natural man CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT discern the things of the Spirit.

it does not say the natural man might be able to. It says the natural man CANNOT discern spiritual things.

Cannot means an inability to do something, the denial of permission to do something, an incapacity to do or attain something.

Exactly, .. only if you could hear yourself!?
Ask yourself, which part of you, .. or this Dr. Richard Eby, or the thousands of other Christians who claim to have "seen and talked to God"? From the description I read of those who described their "meeting", it was definitely their carnal self.
They seen a physical god.

Do you see anything there in the definition that suggests that they can, because if you can, you can see things I cannot?

It's not the definition that's in error, its our understanding of it. And just as God used Pharaoh to reveal Himself to both His People Israel, and to Egypt, he has used the Gentile pagan god worshipping Roman Emperor Constantine to put all the books and letters, parchments and scrolls that His Prophets and Apostles wrote, in one Book. So don't shut anyone out, God just maybe using them to reach you since Christianity has pretty much closed the door on both God, and His son Word aka Jesus Christ.

Why would an atheist claim the truth when they don't believe in it and don't want anything to do with it? All they are interested in is the gospel according to atheists and I have been told by more than one their gospel changes from day to day.

That's how I caught some priceless revelations against my Christian Religion's indoctrinations, .. which if I stayed within my Religion would never have caught, or seen. I wasn't even allowed to go there!
Like with you here; can you imagine me going to my Elders and saying: "Well, I think you are interpreting that Bible verse wrong, .. my old atheist friend said; .."
See what I mean?

For anyone to understand God or any facet of him they need the direction and instruction of the Holy Spirit because the Bible is very clear.

Only the Holy Spirit can lead anyone into the truth. If anyone is spouting forth on anything about God, Christian or otherwise and he/she has not received their information from the Holy Spirit, why would I believe anything they say? It is totally illogical to do so. It is like saying to God, I don't believe what you have said in your word because I can get the truth from an atheist.

OK, how about this, which has always worried me, which is why I never rest seeking and searching for the truth:
On the Great Day of our Lord Jesus Christ, Jesus comes to me and says: "Who are you, I tell you I have never known you! I tried to wake you up, but you were so indoctrinated by your Christian-Religion that every time you read my Words, you interpret it, the way they indoctrinated you by. So I tried to make you aware of this by using an atheist, but you wouldn't listen to him. You shut him off because he said he was an atheist. Didn't you read that I came for the whole world, including the Gentiles, who worshipped all those pagan gods my Father hated, and how they blasphemed His Holy name, .. did I not listen to them and to correct them and lead them into my fold?"

This is how I find Christianity, a huge group 2.6 billion strong who have shut the door on God and His son Jesus Christ. And God shown me this by the only way He was able to, by an atheist.

Think about it, who is more evil, an atheist who claims he doesn't believe in God and points out why, or a Christian who names our Holy God who resides in Heaven a deified being, .. a Deity who resides in earths supernatural realm, a place everyone knows is where Satan and his fallen angels, demons reside. And tech others that our Creator and Heavenly Father divines his will to mediums, Christian diviners trained in divination in Schools of Divinity! This is nothing short of blasphemy of the unforgivable kind, which is against everything our God is, and stands for, where He is turned into a demon, one of those who divine their half truths and lies to the deceived world through mediums!

Look, according to the Bible, our Heavenly Father is;
* Holy and Spirit, and NOT some deity/demon
* He resides in Heaven, and NOT earths supernatural realm where the Devil and his angels were cast down to and reside
* He 'reveals' His will to us, and NOT divines His will through mediums, warlocks and witches who been trained in Schools of Divinity!
* No one has ever seen God, simply because He is Spirit, just like our mind is, it is what God breathed into the body made of dust Adam, .. which is what makes us living souls, so if anyone in these last days, with Christ having ascended back up to Heaven and sent the Holy Spirit claims to have seen God and describes God in the physical sense, is either lying, .. or what they seen is an apparition of demons, or even Lucifer himself posing as an angel of light.

So let's look at the bottom line.

Atheists do not believe God exists so why claim to be an authority on something that does not exist. Not logical.

No, they are pointing out our erroneous claims that He exists. You should listen to them! I have, and shown them who God is through science, and through the proper interpretation of the Bible.
I also correct their erroneous Biblical interpretations, which by the way is what they received from Christian theologians and Ministers.

Atheists are not interested in the truth. All they are interested in is arguing with those who do know the truth. They are predators who come online doing Satan's work for him trying to devour weak souls. (It is in the bible).

"Weak souls" being devoured is NOT their fault, it is the "weak souls" fault. God is using them to choke out the weak and look warm which God himself hates and spits out of His mouth. God will take a wicked, adulterating, thieving atheist over a look warm Christian any day!

Generally, atheists are quite dumb, because they think that by claiming all wisdom and knowledge which they do, everyone is going to flock to them like flies and say "we were wrong."

There are dumb atheists I agree, but the majority, I'd say about 80% that I debated with for the past 30 years are extremely intelligent, and they don't claim "all wisdom", but take pride in their education (no matter if we know many of it is wrong) and they use it on weak Christians, .. because THEY CAN.

I admit I most likely have the least amount of public education amongst you all, but I have never, ever lost an argument for God, whether general argument, science, physics, and yes even their pride and joy this Quantum Theory stuff that now they use to deceive weak minds.

History shows they are quite deluded as there are in the region of 2.6 billion Christians on earth and 1 million atheists. Sounds like no one is listening to them.

The atheists are the least of my worries, but Organized Religion is. It is that 2.6 BILLION Christians that are my, and their (atheists) worries, as is the Muslim Religion (which I learned was created by the Vatican, the RCC)
You know which are the dumb atheists? The Religious ones, they do nothing but get on atheist-run forums, either Christian, or strictly atheist Forums and talk about the Bible and God, of which they are completely ignorant of. The smart ones, you can learn a lot from. They challenge my Biblical knowledge because a lot of them know the Bible better than me.
My strength is not "knowing the Bible to a point I can recite it verse to verse, which I can't, but it is in the interpretation of it. That part comes from, .. Him, His Holy Spirit, not me. Like I said, I'm an undereducated idiot, I just know how to seek out the truth in things, no matter what subject, and what level they want to debate it!?

If atheism is so wonderful, why has it been responsible for the death of 137 million people in the name of atheistic ideology last century and 55 million babies in the womb since 1967?

If atheism is so wonderful why is it that atheist organizations rarely appear in the list of those offering charity to others?

They bleat that they are very ordinary people and are as good as the next person and are kind to everyone. But overall, atheism produces monsters and heartless killers who will stab you in the back at the drop of the hat if it advances their lies and power.

You just described the Religious atheists, who are no different than the god they follow, which even they admit is Lucifer.
They are liars, and their father is the god-of-lies. They claim science when it is obviously religious indoctrination, and all we have to do is look a little closer: You see the NASA emblem?
You see the snakes tongue on the S in NASA? Yep, it's the Ssssnake, the serpent they worship. Look at CERN, with the 6's, 666CERN with Shiva guarding their facilities. They are the ones that killed science, R.I.P. science, hello "quantum fluctuations" where good has fluctuated to evil, and evil to good, life to death and visa versa. They control education, create ideologies like Communism by which they justify killing even their own.

This would not have happened if we were more interested in worshipping God, rather than the Religions and their versions of gods. But I will tell you this, that Christianity is no different than these, the only difference is that they justify their cruelty by misquoting the Bible.
Remember how I keep saying that theist/atheist are the same?
The atheists have the theists collect for charities, and it all goes to the same god. Only maybe 2% gets to those, whom they forced into needing it.

When you investigate those things that atheists don't want you to know, it does not take long to discover in the nicest of possible terms that generally they are a bunch of ratbags who only are ever in it for what they can get out of it for themselves.

I realize that there are exceptions to every rule as is the case with everything, but they are so few and far between we rarely hear of them.

Like I said, it's Religion, just look at the Christian History and todays Mega-Church Ministers of darkness, and as you said: "it does not take long to discover in the nicest of possible terms that generally they are a bunch of ratbags who only are ever in it for what they can get out of it for themselves."
If a person belongs to a Religion theist/atheist you can expect the worst, because every Religion is lead by the Devil.
Christianity - my Lord, what horrible torture, rape, child molestation, and brutal murder of BILLION of people over it's 1,700 year history, and this while they had the Bible in their hands, and the word "Jesus Christ" on their lips! No atheist will beat that.
This is why I say; theist/atheist is the same thing, Religion. Theists worship the god/gods atheist claim they don't believe in. It's how Satan was able to deceive even the chosen (if that was possible), because Satan knows that the more options he creates, he will be sure to please everyone.
That's why Christians run from one denomination to another, because deep inside there is God calling them, but when they go to one church (as I used to), .. they find that God is not there, so they keep searching.
Not really for God, but a church that is able to put their tormented souls to rest with a good enough lie they can pretend to believe as truth. The words "Jesus Christ" sounds so soothing, doesn't it?
"Hey, it's the Bible, it's a Bible-based Church!" Lol, .. so was Constantine as were the Jesuit army of the Inquisition!

So it's NOT atheism: "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods." that's dangerous and evil, .. But which Religion atheist worship in place of God. Communism was and is a Religion, so it all boils down to the theistic/atheistic Religions, for they all worship Deities and deny our One and Only Possible Creator "I Am".

So....please do not assail me with atheists say this and atheists say that and atheists are right when they say this or say that because my reply will always be "go ahead if you want to call God a liar."

To end I will quote my source of truth and it says this....

Rom 3:4 No, indeed! God tells the truth, even if everyone else is a liar. The Scriptures say about God, "Your words will be proven true, and in court, you will win your case."

A small comment. Please note it says "God tells the truth..." not atheists. And if he tells the truth by extension everyone else is a liar.

Yes my friend, Gods Word Is Truth, but this does not mean that if I carry the Bible in my hand, and even if I say those words from the Bible that; "I am telling the truth"!
To understand what I mean, please let me just point you to the "1,700 year old blood drenched, bodies burnt, babies killed, men, women, and children raped and tortured History of the "Christian-Religion"!

If this doesn't wake you up, ... at least long enough for you to take another look at your own Religious Beliefs, you will never see to climb out of the ditch. Not even to know that you are in a ditch. I have, and with Gods help I can show you the way, which is Jesus, but not the Deity sun-god the god of Christianity!

God bless you my friend.

 

[Speedwell]

History shows they are quite deluded as there are in the region of 2.6 billion Christians on earth...

But only about 80-100 million of them are creationists.

 

[Episaw]

q

 

[Episaw]

None of what you say Arius rings true so as I am moving house I will send it out with all the other rubbish.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Weird, .. not to me, because you still think you are an atheist. Branko used logic (very similar to Spock on Star Trek), so he seen no use for God. The problem was that he's concept of God was all wrong, as I said, he viewed God from the perspective of Organized Religion.

-_- yeah, I'm not like this Branko guy at all, especially given the fact that I don't view religion as useless at all and have been a seeker for over 8 years.

Lol, .. ok, so you're not quite (intelligent) as him, you cling to the belief that Religion teaches truth since they always quote positive things.

No...? I highly doubt that any religion has ever preached a fully accurate depiction of the world. My interest in deities, the afterlife, etc. aren't religion specific. One has to find evidence of these things first before establishing the qualities that they have, in my opinion.

I used to justify myself by "quoting positive things" too, especially quoting the Bible to win over my friend Branko's atheistic ideology. But, .. as he proved to me, I was not just a liar, but a hypocrite too.
I was a Christian, .. how dare he!?

Not sure how you were being a liar and a hypocrite, honestly, as you never actually stated any examples of it. But it never ceases to amaze me that people think quoting scripture would convince most atheists, especially considering that a lot of atheists have an interest in reading religious texts.

There you go, .. "you don't believe in 'it'", straight from mainstream Christian ideology where they understand God as an it, like my friend.

The bible and most Christians treat Yahweh as an entity. In that particular religion, it is unusual to view it as all of existence, etc. Since gender is also uncertain (if even applicable), "it" happens to be the easiest pronoun to use. I wouldn't read too much into my word choice, honestly.

I understand; "not from the complexity of life", .. but just like Episaw and other Christians you seek a physical god, .. only those Christians who seen God, not only said "hi" to Him, but gave him a hug too!

If something isn't physical or measurable in any sense, there's no way to determine if it exists or not, and chances are that even if it does that it's irrelevant to our lives. No point in looking for something that isn't "findable".

So just like Christians, you also seek a physical god, an "it". But unlike Christians who were exposed to a lot of pictures, drawings and paintings of god, you don't know what that "it" should look like, so you're really in a complex predicament buddy! How would you know it's God and not the Devil you're saying "hi" to?

-_- it's not like I am unaware of the classical depictions of both figures and that they are different. However, as far as I am concerned, it doesn't actually matter which one I encounter, as long as I can definitively tell that they are non-human entities that have involvement in an afterlife relevant to humans. And there are a variety of traits that either could exhibit that would convince me of that.

I'm the opposite, you are my friend first, and the more I know you, the closer I feel to you despite how you feel about me, or much you may say (or think) you hate me.

I have no opinion of you, other than you are behaving a bit... emotionally pushy. I'll board the friendship train at my own pace, and I'll only board it if I want to.

I had debating atheist friends for many years that literally cussed me out, belittled me, mocked me so I would stop calling them my friends, .. lol.

Well, you won't be getting that here. The swear censor on this site is as effective as it is amusing (it puts the phrase "bless and do not curse" in place of every letter in the swear word. Makes for quite the fun when it mistakes a URL for a curse, but that hasn't happened in a while so that may have been fixed).

One of them, the atheist leader on that Forum became my friend, but still hated my ideology and my God, and the Bible. He called me something like "My best friend nemesis" .. or something like that, he was very intelligent and used big words in a unique style (I would say a heavy Southern-Yoda accent) that took me a whole year to fully understand. I have learned a great deal from him, and from my other atheists "frienemies" on that Forum, .. I miss them so much.

Write something in a "heavy Southern Yoda accent", because that sounds hilarious.

He seen and understood that I was on a spiritual quest to know God, and knowing me for a long time he knew that nothing on earth would derail me from my quest. So he suggested some very interesting cults that he felt made some sense, one he read about from an article in his Playboy Magazine. He didn't care about God either way, and because of his In-laws, come to hate Religion. He was very knowledgeable about many things, .. if not, he would genuinely look into it just for me.

Still really weird that an atheist would direct you to cults... though, it might have been as a joke.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Your response is from someone who is running on empty.

Why would I want to respond to a bunch of lies

Your reply was addressed to XD. I am not XD.

-_- are you freaking 80 years old? XD = , it's not a name, but a text representation of a facial expression.

Also, I did not lie.

 

[Arius]

None of what you say Arius rings true so as I am moving house I will send it out with all the other rubbish.

Mathew 13:44

 

[Arius]

-_- yeah, I'm not like this Branko guy at all, especially given the fact that I don't view religion as useless at all and have been a seeker for over 8 years.

Seeker? May I ask what you are seeking; is it the right Religion, .. or the right God/gods?

No...? I highly doubt that any religion has ever preached a fully accurate depiction of the world. My interest in deities, the afterlife, etc. aren't religion specific. One has to find evidence of these things first before establishing the qualities that they have, in my opinion.

Evidence of the qualities of the Religion, or the god/gods they sell? I agree on their accuracy on their depiction the world.

Not sure how you were being a liar and a hypocrite, honestly, as you never actually stated any examples of it. But it never ceases to amaze me that people think quoting scripture would convince most atheists, especially considering that a lot of atheists have an interest in reading religious texts.

Hypocrite in my, or the Christians portrayal of Christ-like living.
Yes, the atheists I debated were exceptionally versed in Scripture, and other Religions.
Have you seen these atheist videos?

Religulous - by Bill Maher

Zeitgeist

I'm interested to know your opinion on them?

The bible and most Christians treat Yahweh as an entity. In that particular religion, it is unusual to view it as all of existence, etc. Since gender is also uncertain (if even applicable), "it" happens to be the easiest pronoun to use. I wouldn't read too much into my word choice, honestly.

Yes, now I understand how I shouldn't read too much into it.
View God as "all existence"?
That would be like identifying me; spirit/mind along with my thoughts.
God is Spirit/Mind, His creation would be like His thoughts, His creation. God is not his creation. In other words, looking at nature and all of Gods creation, we are not seeing God, only His creation. I hope that makes sense!?

If something isn't physical or measurable in any sense, there's no way to determine if it exists or not, and chances are that even if it does that it's irrelevant to our lives. No point in looking for something that isn't "findable".

Because our Creator is not a thing, so He is not findable, .. instead, God is only "knowable", which is why the Bible says: "No one seen God at any time, the Son, who is in the bosom of he Father, he revealed Him"

The only way anyone can understand this is, if you could visualize yourself without your body.

This is why the BB-Evolution Religion took over science, so they can tell us that our brain creates the mind/soul, this way there is just no way to visualize ourselves without our body. This is why they say that the mind is just a result of the brain, which removes the real person which id the spirit/mind that resides in and uses the body and brain.The body is not who we are.

-_- it's not like I am unaware of the classical depictions of both figures and that they are different. However, as far as I am concerned, it doesn't actually matter which one I encounter, as long as I can definitively tell that they are non-human entities that have involvement in an afterlife relevant to humans. And there are a variety of traits that either could exhibit that would convince me of that.

You explain things so nice, and I do such a terrible job. One is my use of the word "you", which sound as if I am getting personal. Like I said "You are in a predicament buddy", but reading how you phrase things I mean to say "we fall into a predicament when we try to visualize God as a physical entity, or a physical being". Thank you for being patient with me. Let me try this way:

God is not a "being", but the Ground of Being, .. He Is "Infinite".

For instance, you/me, without our physical body would be the Infinite in its absolute purest definition, which is: "without boarders"
Once we communicate with each other, (whichever way, either creating something that we can use to send our words to physical ears, or telepathically like God often does in our dreams) is when Infinite becomes known.

So if God was to just erase our body, 'poof' make it disappear, our soul would go back to God who gave it (it's that breath of life in Adam that makes Adam, Adam)
What makes God/Spirit an individual like us for instance, is this physical body that God put His Spirit/breath into.

I have no opinion of you, other than you are behaving a bit... emotionally pushy.

I agree, and only see it once I already posted it, .. like when I get your response, which is why I get frustrated with myself, and it shows up in my next post. Woe is me.

I'll board the friendship train at my own pace, and I'll only board it if I want to.

Absolutely, and again I just love the way you put that.

Well, you won't be getting that here. The swear censor on this site is as effective as it is amusing (it puts the phrase "bless and do not curse" in place of every letter in the swear word. Makes for quite the fun when it mistakes a URL for a curse, but that hasn't happened in a while so that may have been fixed).

Yes, lol, I did get that a few times, where I went back and changed it to a different word with the same meaning and it went away.

Write something in a "heavy Southern Yoda accent", because that sounds hilarious.

LOL, Oh man, I wish I could go back and copy some of his posts to show you, but I've been banned because I went against the Christian Religion on a the "Debating Christianity and Religion" Forum after many years there. Maybe you can check it out!?
Debating Christianity and Religion - Christian Debate Forum
His name is "Joey Knotthead" (if he's still there?) and yes, he is funny, if you can make out what he said without getting offended like I used to in the beginning.

Still really weird that an atheist would direct you to cults... though, it might have been as a joke.

No, he was genuinly serious. He was actually helping me, .. encouraging me to explore different perspectives of spirituality, instead of the same old Christian faith which he seen was always conflicting with what we Christians quoted from the Bible.
His sense of humor was something like "Spock's" on 'Star Trek', so most of our jokes, he did not find logical, which I found funny. One quote I used to use on him was, .. I would say to somebody in his presence: "A mind is a terrible thing!" and he would always correct me: ".. to waste Arius, .. to waste!"

I miss him.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Seeker? May I ask what you are seeking; is it the right Religion, .. or the right God/gods?

You're getting too specific, since I am looking for any evidence of deities and/or an afterlife.

Evidence of the qualities of the Religion, or the god/gods they sell? I agree on their accuracy on their depiction the world.

Again, you are getting too specific.

Hypocrite in my, or the Christians portrayal of Christ-like living.
Yes, the atheists I debated were exceptionally versed in Scripture, and other Religions.
Have you seen these atheist videos?

Religulous - by Bill Maher

Zeitgeist

I'm interested to know your opinion on them?

Nope, haven't seen either of them, but I have heard of Religulous well enough to know that Bill Maher used specific techniques to make the religious people in that movie look especially stupid. Kinda like what Ray Comfort does when he is filming interviews of "evolutionists". The only strongly "atheist" things I watch are reactions to Chick tracts and trust me, those weren't going to be able to convert me under any circumstances.

Yes, now I understand how I shouldn't read too much into it.
View God as "all existence"?
That would be like identifying me; spirit/mind along with my thoughts.
God is Spirit/Mind, His creation would be like His thoughts, His creation. God is not his creation. In other words, looking at nature and all of Gods creation, we are not seeing God, only His creation. I hope that makes sense!?

Makes perfect sense, as you are demonstrating my point that most Christians view the deity they worship as a distinct entity. Not all religions are like that.

Because our Creator is not a thing, so He is not findable, .. instead, God is only "knowable", which is why the Bible says: "No one seen God at any time, the Son, who is in the bosom of he Father, he revealed Him"

I don't know anyone I can't find.

The only way anyone can understand this is, if you could visualize yourself without your body.

That's a fairly easy thing to do.

This is why the BB-Evolution Religion took over science, so they can tell us that our brain creates the mind/soul, this way there is just no way to visualize ourselves without our body.

All tests that attempted to find a physical soul or "soul organ" in our bodies came up with nothing. Furthermore, interactions with the brain directly impact sensations and thoughts, and damage to it can remove aspects of ourselves entirely.

However, while I fully recognize our consciousness as a product of our brains, it's still really easy for me to visualize myself without a body. Conceptualizing something and belief are two separate things.

Also, viewing the mind as coming from the brain is entirely separate from evolutionary theory. The theory of evolution in no way demands that our minds be a physical part of us in any direct sense.

This is why they say that the mind is just a result of the brain, which removes the real person which id the spirit/mind that resides in and uses the body and brain.The body is not who we are.

Then there should be evidence that supports that claim. Please present it.

You explain things so nice, and I do such a terrible job. One is my use of the word "you", which sound as if I am getting personal. Like I said "You are in a predicament buddy", but reading how you phrase things I mean to say "we fall into a predicament when we try to visualize God as a physical entity, or a physical being". Thank you for being patient with me. Let me try this way:

God is not a "being", but the Ground of Being, .. He Is "Infinite".

A meaningless concept, honestly. I can imagine something going on forever all I like, but that doesn't make it somehow easier to believe in (actually, the opposite).

For instance, you/me, without our physical body would be the Infinite in its absolute purest definition, which is: "without boarders"

Nah, even if we have souls, our minds only contain so much information, making them finite.

Once we communicate with each other, (whichever way, either creating something that we can use to

send our words to physical ears, or telepathically like God often does in our dreams) is when Infinite becomes known.

Funnily enough, the only dream I've ever had of heaven had no god in it.

So if God was to just erase our body, 'poof' make it disappear, our soul would go back to God who gave it (it's that breath of life in Adam that makes Adam, Adam)
What makes God/Spirit an individual like us for instance, is this physical body that God put His Spirit/breath into.

Again, applying traits to a being for which there is no evidence.

I agree, and only see it once I already posted it, .. like when I get your response, which is why I get frustrated with myself, and it shows up in my next post. Woe is me.

Absolutely, and again I just love the way you put that.

Awkward social interactions are the story of my life, so don't worry about it.

Yes, lol, I did get that a few times, where I went back and changed it to a different word with the same meaning and it went away.

The rest of your post was posted incorrectly, so I have to respond to it here. I'd encourage anyone to read up on some of the various religious texts that exist. The ones of the Greeks and Romans are very well written, those of the Hindus enchantingly bizarre... lots of good reading material there. However, they all have extreme flaws, hence why I am not a Hindu, etc.

 

[Episaw]

-_- are you freaking 80 years old? XD = , it's not a name, but a text representation of a facial expression.

Also, I did not lie.

No, I have just turned 76 and I have 10 beautiful grandchildren who I adore and who love their grandad to death.

 

[Arius]

You're getting too specific, since I am looking for any evidence of deities and/or an afterlife.



Again, you are getting too specific.



Nope, haven't seen either of them, but I have heard of Religulous well enough to know that Bill Maher used specific techniques to make the religious people in that movie look especially stupid. Kinda like what Ray Comfort does when he is filming interviews of "evolutionists". The only strongly "atheist" things I watch are reactions to Chick tracts and trust me, those weren't going to be able to convert me under any circumstances.




Makes perfect sense, as you are demonstrating my point that most Christians view the deity they worship as a distinct entity. Not all religions are like that.


I don't know anyone I can't find.


That's a fairly easy thing to do.


All tests that attempted to find a physical soul or "soul organ" in our bodies came up with nothing. Furthermore, interactions with the brain directly impact sensations and thoughts, and damage to it can remove aspects of ourselves entirely.

However, while I fully recognize our consciousness as a product of our brains, it's still really easy for me to visualize myself without a body. Conceptualizing something and belief are two separate things.

Also, viewing the mind as coming from the brain is entirely separate from evolutionary theory. The theory of evolution in no way demands that our minds be a physical part of us in any direct sense.


Then there should be evidence that supports that claim. Please present it.


A meaningless concept, honestly. I can imagine something going on forever all I like, but that doesn't make it somehow easier to believe in (actually, the opposite).


Nah, even if we have souls, our minds only contain so much information, making them finite.


Funnily enough, the only dream I've ever had of heaven had no god in it.


Again, applying traits to a being for which there is no evidence.



Awkward social interactions are the story of my life, so don't worry about it.



The rest of your post was posted incorrectly, so I have to respond to it here. I'd encourage anyone to read up on some of the various religious texts that exist. The ones of the Greeks and Romans are very well written, those of the Hindus enchantingly bizarre... lots of good reading material there. However, they all have extreme flaws, hence why I am not a Hindu, etc.

I responded yesterday, and the Forum went down, lost it all.
How can we get it back from the auto-save drafts?