NC towns cancel Christmas parades after protests over Confederate group

rjs330

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I know and agree, but the discussion about it here has been interesting. I have taken the position that it is possible to understand why display of the "confederate" flag might be seen as racism. I have also taken the position that there is a considerable overlap in the South of conservative white Evangelicals and those subscribing to the "Lost Cause" mythology. I have tried to be careful in limiting and specifying my generalizations, but the response has been in the nature of, "You are accusing all...How dare you!" Very interesting.

As far as white Christian conservatives are concerned I don't believe you were accused of saying all. At least I didn't. I did challenge you on the "majority" issue. You had no real evidence to legitimize that statement. If you are going to accuse a majority of something you should have some evidence for that.
 
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rjs330

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Back when I was in high school, I got to talking with some of my classmates about what our respective nationalities were. As part of it, I noted that I had German on both sides of my family, and that my maternal grandmother was a war bride. The class troll overheard us, and for the rest of the semester he would make Nazi jokes whenever he saw me.

Similarly, if you look at anti-Mormon writings you'll see that they invariably either wave polygamy around as a bloody shirt or wave Mountain Meadows (in which a group of Utah state militia that had been panicked by word of an invasion partnered with a group of Native Americans to annihilate a wagon train seen as a mutual threat) as a bloody shirt.

What we're seeing here is the same basic principle: there are those who legitimately believe that due to past actions, entire cultures, religions, and ethnic groups need to be made to feel shamed forever, with no chance of redemption. Being a member of this group, even if they were simply born into it, is tantamount to Original Sin, and so the person must be made to wallow in regret and penance for their entire life.

This is what people refer to when they talk about "Cancel Culture" and how horrifically evil it is: there's no chance for a person to be seen as a person, let alone show that whatever people think about them is incorrect or attempt to atone for any legitimate misdeeds.

In this case, the "good and proper" crowd has decided that the South is, and forever will be, linked with slavery and oppression, and so anyone who resides in the South and fails to present themselves as either a victim or proper penitent must be regarded as sub-human.

Simply put, a lot of what we're seeing these days with Confederate flags and other symbols becoming more visible is push-back, people coming to feel that they themselves are being attacked and desiring to push back by whatever means they feel appropriate.

Consider, for example, a situation that happened here in Texas a few years ago. The city of Austin decided to re-name Robert E. Lee Elementary School, and opened it up to the public for suggestions.

School Asks for New Name, the Internet Answers 'Schoolie McSchoolface'

By Snopes, the #2 suggestion was to simply leave the name as it is.

You can read for yourself the other suggestions people had, although the Snopes article omits the fact that "Bruce Lee Elementary" and "John Cena Elementary" had a few nominations as well.

Basically, most of the people who responded either wanted the name to stay the same, proposed clearly unacceptable names as a protest, or proposed unrealistic names as a troll job.

I whole heartedly agree with you. We see this consistently with all whites bear the guilt of racism. White guilt.

We don't say Germans shall forever bear the sin of Nazism. They can never redeem themselves. They can never let go of the past, bit shall forever wallow in the guilt of it.

We don't say that about the Japanese either.

But we sure will say it about white people and the south. I do see the difficulty though in embracing symbols of southern racism. It's not just acknowledging them or putting them in a museum as a part of history good, bad or ugly. It's the embracing of the symbol while trying to reject what it stood for. It would be more difficult for people to accept redemption of the German people if they still flew the Nazi flag at their capitol or marched in the street carrying it, while saying they do not support what it stood for.

It's a hard one to swallow. But that being said, in America you have the right to carry and bear whatever symbol you want. Just don't be surprised if people are offended by it. Also those that are offended shouldn't be allowed to shut you down, just cause they are offended. As long as you are marching and displaying in peace.
 
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Speedwell

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In this case, the "good and proper" crowd has decided that the South is, and forever will be, linked with slavery and oppression, and so anyone who resides in the South and fails to present themselves as either a victim or proper penitent must be regarded as sub-human.
I think that is a mischaracterization. The Civil war was not an heroic struggle to preserve a beneficent and ethical way of life. To admit this does not require presenting oneself as either a victim or a penitent.
 
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Speedwell

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As far as white Christian conservatives are concerned I don't believe you were accused of saying all. At least I didn't. I did challenge you on the "majority" issue. You had no real evidence to legitimize that statement. If you are going to accuse a majority of something you should have some evidence for that.
I think it is not controversial to say that a majority of white Christian Evangelicals live in the South.
 
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durangodawood

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....Also those that are offended shouldn't be allowed to shut you down, just cause they are offended. As long as you are marching and displaying in peace.
Well I cant blame a small town for skipping the Christmas parade altogether if its just going to be a forum for contention. Who wants that?
 
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Speedwell

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I see....then your point is dismissed. Anyone may be racist....there's no reason to treat them as such until they show they are.
By, for instance, espousing the "Lost Cause" mythology.
 
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ruthiesea

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Not sure that's the same group....

I found a FB page for Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy....which is the name of the group planning to march in the parade.

From the page they seem to insist they aren't racist, don't approve of racism, and are only interested in preserving history.

They honor an enemy of the United States during which approximately 350,000 soldiers died for our country. Why don’t we honor other countries that we fought against?

Contrary to what some say no one is trying to “erase” the Civil War from history. The history of the Civil War is still taught in American history classes, Civil War battle sights are preserved, there are an untold number of books on the subject.

In my opinion a group honoring those who made war against our country has no business in a parade honoring a man who is referred to as the Prince of Peace.
 
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Ana the Ist

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They honor an enemy of the United States during which approximately 350,000 soldiers died for our country. Why don’t we honor other countries that we fought against?

The Civil War didn't involve a foreign country. We do, however, have monuments to various native tribes that fought against the US all over the place.

Should we tear those down?
Contrary to what some say no one is trying to “erase” the Civil War from history. The history of the Civil War is still taught in American history classes, Civil War battle sights are preserved, there are an untold number of books on the subject.

Why tear down statues and marginalize the descendants of Confederates then?

In my opinion a group honoring those who made war against our country has no business in a parade honoring a man who is referred to as the Prince of Peace.

I'm sure Jake Gyllenhaal would be happy to include these people in a parade. He doesn't seem the type to be petty and exclusionary.
 
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