NC towns cancel Christmas parades after protests over Confederate group

[SummerMadness]

I don't know who is worse, those attempting to deny the racism of the symbols they fly or the people attempting to prop up the false claims. We saw these defenders come out when the Richard Spencers of the world tried to hide their white supremacy, we're not buying it.

Destruction of propaganda monuments is ok tho. I mean some people may prefer that giant statue of Saddam Hussein still tower over the square in Baghdad. But my sense is that most feel he did not deserve a place of honor.

Exactly. That's what museums are for, not lionizing them in the public square.

 

[HannahT]

For many claiming Southern pride when they fly the Confederate flag, they are excluding most African Americans when they claim that pride. The problem is it is no longer in vogue to be racist, so there is an attempt to deny the racist roots of that heritage. It is easy to claim Southern pride that doesn't include racism, but the moment you start waving around a flag that for most of its history was either a symbol to uphold the institution of slavery or to uphold the system of Jim Crow, it's simply dishonest.

I don't know who denies racism, because I have never met anyone like that. Heck, I never met anyone that seriously ever attempted to deny anything you mentioned. It's part of history, and if anyone is trying to deny it? Their crackers and majority of the citizens don't deny it.

I was born in the South, and we left when I was small child...partly because my parents were accused of being traitors to their race. If my folks didn't have children I doubt they would have left, but it was scary enough to leave due to us (brother and I). I wasn't old enough to understand all the confusion around me, but not all of it escaped me. As I grew older you figure out more of what happened, and you can grasp the reality of the danger of it too. I never wanted to return. The Northern part of the states tended to be more mute about their racism, but it was still there.

I would come back down to visits due to family, and once I got older and my kids were grown? We decided we would move south (retired) again for a number of reasons. Part of was I could see how different the atmosphere was - though never perfect - compared to my youth. Some things I thought would NEVER be part of the South due to my experiences, and shockingly I was ever wrong. One example was interracial couples. They are just as common here as they were home in the North, and I thought I would never see the day that would happen. I will say I'm still getting used to the Ma'am and Sir stuff that everyone uses here. I thought for sure that would have died with the times, and I'm still surprised it hasn't. Everyone says it - all races and backgrounds.

The first time I saw a black family flying the confederate flag I though I must be missing something (We had been vacationing here for years). The more I saw it the more I realized it couldn't be as matter of fact as people are now claiming. So, yes I would ask. lol! It was the same thing with Southern Pride, and I had a hard time wrapping my mind around WHY they would have it...but they did. It wasn't just a one off thing. So, to claim it can only mean one thing as a symbol is also being dishonest. I don't understand it either, but it's still out there. So, if you want to claim these black families that own their Southern Pride and wave their confederate flags are encouraging people to revere slavery and Jim Crow? I can't stop you. I highly doubt that is their motivation though.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Destruction of propaganda monuments is ok tho. I mean some people may prefer that giant statue of Saddam Hussein still tower over the square in Baghdad. But my sense is that most feel he did not deserve a place of honor.

Rational people do not fear statues of 150 year old dead men, though some people do apparently quake in fear at a statue of Robert E. Lee or some random confederate soldier, or even Mount Rushmore or the Jefferson Memorial.

Rational people learn the lessons of history and hopefully are not doomed to repeat them.

Pelosi, who has been in Congress since the dawn of the nation, it seems, doing nothing, suddenly decided in 2008 that confederate statues were abhorrent. That's hilarious in its abject transparency.

But hey, let's protect and revere Mapplethorpe's Crucifix in urine as great art while we tear down all those historical statues. (sarcasm).

Censorship is the first step toward tyranny.

 

[durangodawood]

Rational people do not fear statues of 150 year old dead men, though some people do apparently quake in fear at a statue of Robert E. Lee or some random confederate soldier, or even Mount Rushmore or the Jefferson Memorial.

Rational people learn the lessons of history and hopefully are not doomed to repeat them.

Pelosi, who has been in Congress since the dawn of the nation, it seems, doing nothing, suddenly decided in 2008 that confederate statues were abhorrent. That's hilarious in its abject transparency.

But hey, let's protect and revere Mapplethorpe's Crucifix in urine as great art while we tear down all those historical statues. (sarcasm).

Censorship is the first step toward tyranny.

There's a few things wrong with this^^^ post.

1. By redirecting the conversation to "quaking in fear" youre going right to insulting people's characters rather than having a rational discussion about the issue.

2. Pelosi? Who cares. Totally not the issue.

3. Mapplethorpe? I dont want "P*** Christ" displayed by our govt in the public square either, and I'd be with you 100% in your effort to get it removed. Oh, and you got the artist wrong.

4. Censorship is not the issue here. What we choose to have our govt display (and not display) in places of public honor does not prevent you from expressing your mind in any way.

 

[SummerMadness]

I don't know who denies racism, because I have never met anyone like that. Heck, I never met anyone that seriously ever attempted to deny anything you mentioned. It's part of history, and if anyone is trying to deny it? Their crackers and majority of the citizens don't deny it.

I was born in the South, and we left when I was small child...partly because my parents were accused of being traitors to their race. If my folks didn't have children I doubt they would have left, but it was scary enough to leave due to us (brother and I). I wasn't old enough to understand all the confusion around me, but not all of it escaped me. As I grew older you figure out more of what happened, and you can grasp the reality of the danger of it too. I never wanted to return. The Northern part of the states tended to be more mute about their racism, but it was still there.

I would come back down to visits due to family, and once I got older and my kids were grown? We decided we would move south (retired) again for a number of reasons. Part of was I could see how different the atmosphere was - though never perfect - compared to my youth. Some things I thought would NEVER be part of the South due to my experiences, and shockingly I was ever wrong. One example was interracial couples. They are just as common here as they were home in the North, and I thought I would never see the day that would happen. I will say I'm still getting used to the Ma'am and Sir stuff that everyone uses here. I thought for sure that would have died with the times, and I'm still surprised it hasn't. Everyone says it - all races and backgrounds.

The first time I saw a black family flying the confederate flag I though I must be missing something (We had been vacationing here for years). The more I saw it the more I realized it couldn't be as matter of fact as people are now claiming. So, yes I would ask. lol! It was the same thing with Southern Pride, and I had a hard time wrapping my mind around WHY they would have it...but they did. It wasn't just a one off thing. So, to claim it can only mean one thing as a symbol is also being dishonest. I don't understand it either, but it's still out there. So, if you want to claim these black families that own their Southern Pride and wave their confederate flags are encouraging people to revere slavery and Jim Crow? I can't stop you. I highly doubt that is their motivation though.

As always, it's the age old tactic of trotting out anecdotal stories of the sliver of black people who allegedly wave the Confederate flag, thus this means there flag holds no foundation in racism. There are also Israeli neo-Nazis, I guess we should start saying that Nazism isn't antisemitic. But that's the beauty of racism in America, there's been a continuous push to redefine the Civil War and pretend as if racism is not what defined the Confederacy and Jim Crow. And if you can find a black person to push that lie, argue that it negates what the overwhelming majority feel.

 

[rjs330]

No, they just try to downplay that part of it so they can imagine it to be a golden age.

The majority of conservative white Christians downplay slavery to imagine a golden age. Wow, just wow.

 

[rjs330]

That's nonsense. You don't get to define the meaning of symbols for everyone else.

It's the same thing from people who define the American flag as racist since we had slavery at that time too. They get to define whatever they want as racist, rather than seeing a broader picture.

 

[rjs330]

There's a few things wrong with this^^^ post.

1. By redirecting the conversation to "quaking in fear" youre going right to insulting people's characters rather than having a rational discussion about the issue.

2. Pelosi? Who cares. Totally not the issue.

3. Mapplethorpe? I dont want "P*** Christ" displayed by our govt in the public square either, and I'd be with you 100% in your effort to get it removed. Oh, and you got the artist wrong.

4. Censorship is not the issue here. What we choose to have our govt display (and not display) in places of public honor does not prevent you from expressing your mind in any way.

The quaking in fear was just borrowed from the left and all their "phobias" they like to place on others. I don't agree with it, but we've been disparaged with it so long, that someone was about to use it against others.

 

[durangodawood]

The quaking in fear was just borrowed from the left and all their "phobias" they like to place on others. I don't agree with it, but we've been disparaged with it so long, that someone was about to use it against others.

"But the other side made me do it" is just digging the hole even deeper, assuming your characterization is correct.

 

[rjs330]

"But the other side made me do it" is just digging the hole even deeper, assuming your characterization is correct.

Nah, I was just pointing out that you were correct to call absurdity in the comment. Just as it's absurd for the left to use that against people they disagree with. Are you consistent?

 

[durangodawood]

Nah, I was just pointing out that you were correct to call absurdity in the comment. Just as it's absurd for the left to use that against people they disagree with. Are you consistent?

Am I consistent? Yes, I hope so anyway. As for "the left", I dont answer for every dumb thing someone on the left says.

 

[Speedwell]

The majority of conservative white Christians downplay slavery to imagine a golden age. Wow, just wow.

Only those who subscribe to the "Lost Cause" mythology. But ask yourself: where do the majority of conservative white Evangelicals live?

 

[mala]

The majority of conservative white Christians downplay slavery to imagine a golden age. Wow, just wow.

Shrug, a lot of older white people pretend the 50s and 60s were some sort of golden age. So it's not that much of a stretch.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That's the issue: Racism and Southern Pride are very difficult to untangle.

Oh it's not difficult at all...and lucky you, I'm willing to share my method. Ready?

I don't assume anyone is racist.

I know that's a groundbreaking and wildly innovative idea these days. It works though.

 

[Speedwell]

Oh it's not difficult at all...and lucky you, I'm willing to share my method. Ready?

I don't assume anyone is racist.

I know that's a groundbreaking and wildly innovative idea these days. It works though.

That's a good method. Rather than assume, it's better to observe their words and actions. The other important thing is not to construct false dichotomies. You can't say that everyone who waves the "confederate" flag is a racist, nor can you say that they are all motivated by their southern heritage except for slavery and Jim Crow which they deplore.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Destruction of propaganda monuments is ok tho.

I don't think anyone should destroy the Lincoln memorial or Mt. Rushmore.

 

[Ana the Ist]

As always, it's the age old tactic of trotting out anecdotal stories of the sliver of black people who allegedly wave the Confederate flag, thus this means there flag holds no foundation in racism. There are also Israeli neo-Nazis, I guess we should start saying that Nazism isn't antisemitic. But that's the beauty of racism in America, there's been a continuous push to redefine the Civil War and pretend as if racism is not what defined the Confederacy and Jim Crow. And if you can find a black person to push that lie, argue that it negates what the overwhelming majority feel.

The majority of people feel the Confederate flag represents southern pride.

Poll: Majority sees Confederate flag as Southern pride - CNNPolitics

 

[Speedwell]

The majority of people feel the Confederate flag represents southern pride.

Poll: Majority sees Confederate flag as Southern pride - CNNPolitics

What are they proud of?

 

[Ana the Ist]

What are they proud of?

Biscuits and gravy? Sweet tea? Being southern? How should I know?

The point is that they don't see it as racist. That means all this nonsense about slavery and racism is unfounded propaganda. If they don't see it as racist...then they aren't defending it because they're racist.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

There's a few things wrong with this^^^ post.

1. By redirecting the conversation to "quaking in fear" youre going right to insulting people's characters rather than having a rational discussion about the issue.

2. Pelosi? Who cares. Totally not the issue.

3. Mapplethorpe? I dont want "P*** Christ" displayed by our govt in the public square either, and I'd be with you 100% in your effort to get it removed. Oh, and you got the artist wrong.

4. Censorship is not the issue here. What we choose to have our govt display (and not display) in places of public honor does not prevent you from expressing your mind in any way.

1. Responding in kind to your comment"Destruction of propaganda monuments is ok tho. I mean some people may prefer that giant statue of Saddam Hussein still tower over the square in Baghdad. But my sense is that most feel he did not deserve a place of honor." Completely off point. We aren't Baghdad and don't have a dictator who is killing millions of Americans.

2. Pelosi is a big issue.

3. I dont think so.