NC towns cancel Christmas parades after protests over Confederate group

[Speedwell]

You didn't answer it either. What lost cause can't the majority of white conservative Christians get over?

I gave you an answer and a link. What more do you want?

 

[rjs330]

The Lost Cause of the Confederacy, or simply the Lost Cause, is an American pseudo-historical negationist ideology that holds that the cause of the Confederacy during the American Civil War was a just and heroic one. The ideology endorses the supposed virtues of the antebellum South, viewing the war as a struggle primarily to save what they view as the beneficent and ethical Southern way of life.

Lost Cause of the Confederacy - Wikipedia

Okay, and slavery was a part of that way of life. And you believe the majority of white conservative Christians think that way of life was good?

 

[SummerMadness]

Okay, and slavery was a part of that way of life. And you believe the majority of white conservative Christians think that way of life was good?

We’re not participating in So’s Law. The Confederacy was built on a racist institution, those that lionize that past can’t selectively ignore the racism that was its main foundation, especially with their symbol of choice being a prominent marker of being against the Civil Rights Movement.

 

[Speedwell]

Okay, and slavery was a part of that way of life. And you believe the majority of white conservative Christians think that way of life was good?

No, they just try to downplay that part of it so they can imagine it to be a golden age.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Who cares. If its wrong, its wrong.

 

[Ana the Ist]

We’re not participating in So’s Law. The Confederacy was built on a racist institution, those that lionize that past can’t selectively ignore the racism that was its main foundation, especially with their symbol of choice being a prominent marker of being against the Civil Rights Movement.

That's nonsense. You don't get to define the meaning of symbols for everyone else.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Dp

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well, to folks on the right, left side 'extremism' is things like "medicare for all!".

Sorry if I dont denounce that with maximum fervor.

I think stances that promote, for example, the destruction of Israel, or open borders, or anti-whiteness would be better examples of the extreme left.

 

[mala]

That's nonsense. You don't get to define the meaning of symbols for everyone else.

Sure go ahead and wave some swastikas in front of the nearest synagogue and tell them it's a part of your cultures pride or whatever and definitely nothing to do with nazis and see how it goes.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sure go ahead and wave some swastikas in front of the nearest synagogue and tell them it's a part of your cultures pride or whatever and definitely nothing to do with nazis and see how it goes.

What part of you don't get to decide what symbols mean to other people don't you understand?

 

[mala]

What part of you don't get to decide what symbols mean to other people don't you understand?

I do get it, but what you don't seem to understand is how selfish your position is. that's all. i'm not arguing your position. I'm just saying that it's a childish one. so go die on that hill all you want.

 

[SummerMadness]

Sure go ahead and wave some swastikas in front of the nearest synagogue and tell them it's a part of your cultures pride or whatever and definitely nothing to do with nazis and see how it goes.

There comes a point when someone defending Nazism needs to take a look in the mirror.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I do get it, but what you don't seem to understand is how selfish your position is. that's all. i'm not arguing your position. I'm just saying that it's a childish one. so go die on that hill all you want.

There's a lot to unpack here...so I'll just stick with the basics.

For starters, I'm arguing for or advocating a "position". Symbols require interpretation and for symbols like the Confederate flag...that interpretation is subjective. It might mean something racist to one person....and it might be a symbol of southern pride for someone else. To say that it's only one or the other is to deny history.

Secondly, I'm not the one demanding that everyone has to view it a particular way. I'm not judging people who simply want to march in a local parade. I'm not arguing with people and telling them their racist, or wrong, or otherwise immoral for not seeing things my way.

That would be childish.

 

[Ana the Ist]

There comes a point when someone defending Nazism needs to take a look in the mirror.

There comes a point when someone agrees with shutting down a Christmas parade because they don't like the people marching in it should probably look in the mirror before calling anyone a nazi.

 

[Speedwell]

For starters, I'm arguing for or advocating a "position". Symbols require interpretation and for symbols like the Confederate flag...that interpretation is subjective. It might mean something racist to one person....and it might be a symbol of southern pride for someone else. To say that it's only one or the other is to deny history.

That's the issue: Racism and Southern Pride are very difficult to untangle. Particularly the racist notion so often associated with Southern Pride, that black people were better off under their benign Christian owners than before or since.

 

[HannahT]

That's the issue: Racism and Southern Pride are very difficult to untangle. Particularly the racist notion so often associated with Southern Pride, that black people were better off under their benign Christian owners than before or since.

Actually, it's not that hard to untangle. Most of the time it has to do with listening to people's definition instead of assuming or projecting other's definitions that were never present prior to the culture deciding what it 'really' means.

There are plenty of blacks that claim Southern Pride, and has nothing to do with your definition. I known plenty of people of all races and backgrounds that have used the term, and it never had any meaning close to what you are hinting at.

Sadly, this culture has decided that it will make up the definition for the world...and use it to hammer others with with claims of how it is 'associated' with this, that or the other.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Ok. Just as long as we acknowledge that being age-old does not make a practice right.

Never said otherwise. Slavery wasn't right, but it happened here (and still happens elsewhere) for millenia.

Destruction of historical monuments isn't right either. Things happened. Learn from them.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Pew has it at 29%.
Evangelical Protestants who identify as white - Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics
And we are seeing a different world: the world of Trump.

Uh, huh. As I said, what one calls himself is irrelevant.

Many identify as Christian because great grandma went to church, and they don't happen to be Jews or Hindus or Muslims.

It's meaningless, your politically nonsensical jibe aside. Context.

 

[SummerMadness]

Actually, it's not that hard to untangle. Most of the time it has to do with listening to people's definition instead of assuming or projecting other's definitions that were never present prior to the culture deciding what it 'really' means.

There are plenty of blacks that claim Southern Pride, and has nothing to do with your definition. I known plenty of people of all races and backgrounds that have used the term, and it never had any meaning close to what you are hinting at.

Sadly, this culture has decided that it will make up the definition for the world...and use it to hammer others with with claims of how it is 'associated' with this, that or the other.

For many claiming Southern pride when they fly the Confederate flag, they are excluding most African Americans when they claim that pride. The problem is it is no longer in vogue to be racist, so there is an attempt to deny the racist roots of that heritage. It is easy to claim Southern pride that doesn't include racism, but the moment you start waving around a flag that for most of its history was either a symbol to uphold the institution of slavery or to uphold the system of Jim Crow, it's simply dishonest.

 

[durangodawood]

Never said otherwise. Slavery wasn't right, but it happened here (and still happens elsewhere) for millenia.

Destruction of historical monuments isn't right either. Things happened. Learn from them.

Destruction of propaganda monuments is ok tho. I mean some people may prefer that giant statue of Saddam Hussein still tower over the square in Baghdad. But my sense is that most feel he did not deserve a place of honor.