NC towns cancel Christmas parades after protests over Confederate group

[Speedwell]

It's the only flag that mattered. I still don't know why anyone wants to support an un-American flag that was meant to destroy the United States of America and the Constitution.

Once again, The flag most commonly seen--the rectangular St. Andrews cross flag--was never the national flag of the Confederacy. It came into use after the war has always been a symbol of the unreconstructed Southern "heritage." The actual Confederate national flags are just history. The "Confederate" flag of today is a symbol of white supremacy with no historical tradition at all.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It has nothing to do with the Confederacy as it really was. It has to do with the golden dream of the "Lost Cause" and the extent to which that is associated with the right-wing Christian radicals who make up a substantial part of Trump's base.

It's clear that the people who wanted to be in the parade disagree with you, and a lot of liberals, on a lot of things. So what though? They're entitled to their views and beliefs...they aren't racist, they aren't hurting anyone, they clearly oppose hate groups (according to their own words). What's the big deal if they disagree with your politics?

On the other hand, you've got these fascistic protesters who are willing to shut down an entire parade because a few people who dare to have different views want to march in the parade. They're self appointed police, jury, and judges of morality and if anyone dares disagree....they whine and cry about it.

 

[SummerMadness]

Once again, The flag most commonly seen--the rectangular St. Andrews cross flag--was never the national flag of the Confederacy. It came into use after the war has always been a symbol of the unreconstructed Southern "heritage." The actual Confederate national flags are just history. The "Confederate" flag of today is a symbol of white supremacy with no historical tradition at all.

Ah yes, a distinction that is meaningless. I know it's technically the battle flag, but in common usage it is considered the Confederate flag.

 

[Speedwell]

It's clear that the people who wanted to be in the parade disagree with you, and a lot of liberals, on a lot of things. So what though? They're entitled to their views and beliefs...they aren't racist, they aren't hurting anyone, they clearly oppose hate groups (according to their own words). What's the big deal if they disagree with your politics?

On the other hand, you've got these fascistic protesters who are willing to shut down an entire parade because a few people who dare to have different views want to march in the parade. They're self appointed police, jury, and judges of morality and if anyone dares disagree....they whine and cry about it.

I wasn't justifying anything, just responding to straycat's comments with an opinion of how these groups are seen by others. Certainly they are not all Confederates in the Attic. I would have let them march as a way of making that point.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Once again, The flag most commonly seen--the rectangular St. Andrews cross flag--was never the national flag of the Confederacy. It came into use after the war has always been a symbol of the unreconstructed Southern "heritage." The actual Confederate national flags are just history. The "Confederate" flag of today is a symbol of white supremacy with no historical tradition at all.

Your subjective interpretation of a symbol is different from other subjective interpretations of a symbol.

 

[Ana the Ist]

My feeling is not that far off. It's a doggone PARADE. If people are going to raise such a stink about a PARADE, why am I volunteering my time organizing it? The point is community pride. Clearly the community feels the opposite.

The protesters don't represent the entire community.

 

[Speedwell]

Your subjective interpretation of a symbol is different from other subjective interpretations of a symbol.

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A fact is a fact. The "Confederate" flag in use today was never the national flag of the Confederate States of America. It did not come into use until after the war. it has always been the symbol of unreconstructed Confederatism, a "subjectiive interpretation" agreed on by all parties to the issue--those who wave it and those who deplore it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sometimes I think the water has been poisoned or something. It wasn't even this bad just 5 years ago. And before that, I had a fairly pleasant life (during my childhood in the 80s), with many diverse friends. Things seemed to be looking up and America was moving forward on race relations.

Yeah...I remember it too. There was definitely a sense that the idea that "race" was an important part of anyone's identity was slowly dying out.

Now...not so much. People argue that it's absolutely vital to one's identity.

This is partly nostalgia, imagining myself from a child's perspective again, of course. But I did not expect 2020 to be so loathesome. I know that much. You would have never convinced me that race relations would get worse.

Yeah, I never would have guessed the direction it would come from either.

 

[Ana the Ist]

A fact is a fact. The "Confederate" flag in use today was never the national flag of the Confederate States of America.

True.

It did not come into use until after the war. it has always been the symbol of unreconstructed Confederatism, a "subjectiive interpretation" agreed on by all parties to the issue--those who wave it and those who deplore it.

No...the subjective interpretation is that it's just some white supremacist symbol with no history is the subjective part.

The fact is there are plenty of people who display the flag as a connection to some sense of southern heritage and they aren't in any way "white supremacists".

 

[Speedwell]

True.



No...the subjective interpretation is that it's just some white supremacist symbol with no history is the subjective part.

The fact is there are plenty of people who display the flag as a connection to some sense of southern heritage and they aren't in any way "white supremacists".

I wouldn't go so far as to say not in any way. In any case, the United Daughters and other recognized heritage organizations tend to use the "Stars and Bars" or the Beauregard battle flag, not the modern "Confederate" flag.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I wouldn't go so far as to say not in any way.

Which is why I called it your subjective opinion.

In any case, the United Daughters and other recognized heritage organizations tend to use the "Stars and Bars" or the Beauregard battle flag, not the modern "Confederate" flag.

I'm not sure why posters got focused on the flag so much...as far as I can tell, protesters are angry this group wants to march in the parade at all. It's not as if some compromise was offered where they could march without the flag.

 

[Radagast]

The Confederate flag is a symbol of opposition to civil rights.

Sometimes, as in The Dukes of Hazzard, it's just a symbol of rebellion against authority. Sometimes its just a reminder that the events of the past took place. Sometimes its a state symbol.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sometimes, as in The Dukes of Hazzard, it's just a symbol of rebellion against authority. Sometimes its just a reminder that the events of the past took place. Sometimes its a state symbol.

I've noticed that with the flag, people tend to get hung up on their own personal interpretation of the meaning of the symbol....and like most personal interpretations, they believe theirs is somehow factually correct and everyone else has it wrong.

I think we could all get past it if we just accept that not everyone sees it the same way.

 

[Radagast]

Perhaps a better flag to fly would be the last confederate battle flag --- it was entirely white.

I don't think so. The last Confederate actions took place at sea and involved the ship CSS Shenandoah. It flew the Confederate naval ensign (which was also the Confederate national flag from 1863 to 1865), i.e. the "Confederate battle flag" on a white field.

The CSS Shenandoah surrendered on 6 November 1865, but naval surrenders don't involve raising a white flag; they involve lowering ("striking") the existing one.

So the "last confederate battle flag" was not "entirely white," but "three-quarters white."

 

[ruthiesea]

Democrats hate Jesus. They'd find any reason they can to disrupt any Christmas tradition.

A wonderful and completely false generality. As Oliver Wendell Holmes is alleged to have said, “No generalization is worth a damn, including this one.”

 

[Larniavc]

'I feel so bad for the children': N.C. towns cancel Christmas parades after protests demand removal of Confederate groups

I don’t get it: weren’t the Confederates the baddies? What do they have to do with Xmas?

 

[Larniavc]

Yet their website has some fairly pro-confederate propaganda:
What is the SCV? - Sons of Confederate Veterans

Oof.

That site is not a good look. A dash of white washing, a pinch of closed society and a sprinkling of genetic purity.

Not a cake I’d like to have on my table.

 

[durangodawood]

Sometimes, as in The Dukes of Hazzard, it's just a symbol of rebellion against authority. Sometimes its just a reminder that the events of the past took place. Sometimes its a state symbol.

If youre going to pick a symbol of resistance to authority, then maybe choose one that doesn't also represent the brutally unjust imposition of authority against a certain group of people.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

A town in North Carolina has canceled its Christmas parade over fears of protests due to the planned inclusion of a group bearing the Confederate flag. Wake Forest officials said last week the parade would include the Sons & Daughters of the Confederacy as it had for more than two decades.
North Carolina town cancels Christmas parade with Confederate group

The relevant words are "as it has for more than two decades" (though this article is ad blocked too).

Nothing new to see here, except the intolerant are out in full force.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Low thousands??? The Christian Right make up 25% of the voting population.
No there aren't very many of those, but that's not who I'm talking about.

The demographic is slowly shrinking, aging out mostly, but it's still a substantial bloc of voters. And as long as Trump stays in power, packing the courts with sympathetic judges, their political power will be amplified.

Define the "Christian right that makes up 25% of the population".