NC towns cancel Christmas parades after protests over Confederate group

[Ana the Ist]

(1) it was the only Google hit for "daughters"

(2) it was the only hit for "North Carolina"

Lol well hopefully they aren't shutting down the parade to keep out a handful of old women who explicitly state their disdain for racism on their webpage.

I found a "Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy" group on FB...but it doesn't state if they're located in NC or if they're involved in anything but the webpage. There's also a United Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy that, judging by their posts, is probably in NC....but only boasts 2 members. Hopefully these brave protesters aren't so petty as to shut down a parade over 2 people who they disagree with politically.

 

[Radagast]

I found a "Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy" group on FB.

I'd be willing to bet that they are linked to the broader "Daughters of the Confederacy" organisation, which has been around for a long time.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'd be willing to bet that they are linked to the broader "Daughters of the Confederacy" organisation, which has been around for a long time.

It's possible, but as their website says....

"We are grieved that certain hate groups have taken the Confederate flag and other symbols as their own. We are the descendants of Confederate soldiers, sailors, and patriots. Our members are the ones who have spent 123 years honoring their memory by various activities in the fields of education, history and charity, promoting patriotism and good citizenship. Our members are the ones who, like our statues, have stayed quietly in the background, never engaging in public controversy.

The United Daughters of the Confederacy totally denounces any individual or group that promotes racial divisiveness or white supremacy. And we call on these people to cease using Confederate symbols for their abhorrent and reprehensible purposes."

So it doesn't seem like they're into racism or slavery. I'm not sure what the problem is.

 

[straykat]

I'm not sure what the problem is.

Everyone these days on the Confederate side must be demonized. That's all. It's a very childish and simplified view of history, with clear "good vs evil" motifs like it came out of the mind of a 2 year old. Nobody cares about nuance. Such as the fact that relatively few of the slaveowners even fought in that war. It was just young boys being forced to die in it simply because they lived in the South, while the landowners could pay their way out of the draft. It's only fair to honor the memory of the average soldier. Their lives were not their own and their deaths a travesty, just as others. All they have left is the memory of their families who bear the tragedy.

But.. the modern mindset prefers to demonize them too.

PSA: No, I'm not a supporter of the Confederacy or biased in my need to defend them. I'm a half-White/half-Asian guy who has nothing to do with it.. and my Dad's caucasian family didn't even immigrate to the US until the turn of the 20th century. I'm not here snickering in the corner like some undercover KKK member. Just saying.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Everyone these days on the Confederate side must be demonized. That's all. It's a very childish and simplified view of history, with clear "good vs evil" motifs like it came out of the mind of a 2 year old. Nobody cares about nuance. Such as the fact that relatively few of the slaveowners even fought in that war. It was just young boys being forced to die in it simply because they lived in the South, while the landowners could pay their way out of the draft. It's only fair to honor the memory of the average soldier. Their lives were not their own and their deaths a travesty, just as others. All they have left is the memory of their families who bear the tragedy.

But.. the modern mindset prefers to demonize them too.

PSA: No, I'm not a supporter of the Confederacy or biased in my need to defend them. I'm a half-White/half-Asian guy who has nothing to do with it.. and my Dad's caucasian family didn't even immigrate to the US until the turn of the 20th century. I'm not here snickering in the corner like some undercover KKK member. Just saying.

Honestly, I don't even care if people associate the Confederacy of the Civil War with racism. It's got nothing to do with these people who want to march in this Christmas parade. They don't appear to be racist or looking to hurt anyone.

I think some people who oppose them are just filled with hate. They encourage this viewpoint where everyone is either racist or fighting against racism. That way, if you aren't willing to oppose the people they hate, they can claim that you're one of the racists or at least helping them.

You'd think it was obvious...that people would steer clear of these agitators and think for themselves. Sadly, it seems a lot of people are really afraid of being labeled a racist and willing to go along with anything to avoid it.

 

[straykat]

You'd think it was obvious...that people would steer clear of these agitators and think for themselves. Sadly, it seems a lot of people are really afraid of being labeled a racist and willing to go along with anything to avoid it.

Sometimes I think the water has been poisoned or something. It wasn't even this bad just 5 years ago. And before that, I had a fairly pleasant life (during my childhood in the 80s), with many diverse friends. Things seemed to be looking up and America was moving forward on race relations.

This is partly nostalgia, imagining myself from a child's perspective again, of course. But I did not expect 2020 to be so loathesome. I know that much. You would have never convinced me that race relations would get worse.

 

[SummerMadness]

The Confederate flag is a symbol of opposition to civil rights. Glossing over and ignoring that is why claims of no racism are laughable. Donald Trump says he's the least racist person ever, but then makes racist statements about about other racial and ethnic groups.

It's about showing "heritage", but a heritage they wish to deny exists. But there are receipts...

The Confederate flag largely disappeared after the Civil War. The fight against civil rights brought it back.

To understand what motivated the newfound interest in Confederate symbols, we followed the historical record. We examined a range of documents, including the Congressional Record, debates in state legislatures and other period documents. Our goal was to understand the goals of those supporting Confederate symbols, using their own words in many cases. Here is what we found.

For several decades after the Civil War, the Confederate battle emblem was rarely displayed — typically only during tributes to actual Confederate veterans. It was not part of state flags or other official symbols or displays. In fact, the Confederate battle flag was so uncommon that in 1930, Sen. Coleman Livingston Blease had to have one specially made by the Daughters of South Carolina for him to display in his office.

It wasn’t until 1948 that the Confederate flag re-emerged as a potent political symbol. The reason was the Dixiecrat revolt — when Strom Thurmond led a walkout of white Southerners from the Democratic National Convention to protest President Harry S. Truman’s push for civil rights. The Dixiecrats began to use the Confederate flag, which sparked further public interest in it.

Consequently, the flag became strongly linked to white supremacy and opposition to civil rights for African Americans. In 1951, Rep. John Rankin (D-Miss.), a very outspoken segregationist, proudly announced that he had “never seen as many Confederate flags in all my life as I have observed floating here in Washington during the last few months.” Rankin himself wore a Confederate flag necktie to serve as a constant reminder of his opposition to “beastly” integration policies.

In 1954, the Supreme Court’s decision in Brown v. Board of Education, which ordered the desegregation of public primary schools, focused the energies and ire of hardcore segregationists throughout the South. Efforts to resist school integration and other civil rights protections for African Americans included the display of Confederate symbols and especially the Confederate battle flag.

But support for the Confederate Flag is simply people telling on themselves.

 

[SummerMadness]

Nobody cares about nuance. Such as the fact that relatively few of the slaveowners even fought in that war. It was just young boys being forced to die in it simply because they lived in the South, while the landowners could pay their way out of the draft. It's only fair to honor the memory of the average soldier. Their lives were not their own and their deaths a travesty, just as others. All they have left is the memory of their families who bear the tragedy.

That's revisionist claptrap to remove the fact that slavery was an institution and everyone was part of it. Who were the overseers on plantations? Who were the people that checked whether an unaccompanied Black person had permission to be there? Who were the people that would hunt down runaways? Who were the people that would beat, bludgeon, lynch and murder slaves without repercussion. No, it wasn't just landowners. Many people that fought during the Civil War knew they were defending the institution of slavery even if they didn't own slaves, they were not victims of wealthy landowners. This is one of those lies that attempts to sanitize history.

We've seen the same attempt to sanitize history when it comes to the Third Reich of Germany. Every German was not bad, nor did many of them create and run concentration camps, but there were more than a few that participated in the discrimination and oppression of Jewish people during that era.

 

[straykat]

That's revisionist claptrap to remove the fact that slavery was an institution and everyone was part of it. Who were the overseers on plantations? Who were the people that checked whether an unaccompanied Black person had permission to be there? Who were the people that would hunt down runaways? Who were the people that would beat, bludgeon, lynch and murder slaves without repercussion. No, it wasn't just landowners. Many people that fought during the Civil War knew they were defending the institution of slavery even if they didn't own slaves, they were not victims of wealthy landowners. This is one of those lies that attempts to sanitize history.

We've seen the same attempt to sanitize history when it comes to the Third Reich of Germany. Every German was not bad, nor did many of them create and run concentration camps, but there were more than a few that participated in the discrimination and oppression of Jewish people during that era.

People getting drafted and dying in war is revisionist now? That's just a fact. You give way too much credit to a bunch of illiterate country teenagers...as if they're some sort of cabal. They got nothing out of this except missing limbs, have their faces blown apart, and watching their intestines come out before they passed out. But go on and think it's all worth it or something to them.

And it's strange that you mention Jews. Some of them were also slaveowners as well. There's nuance even with this.

 

[Speedwell]

Everyone these days on the Confederate side must be demonized. That's all. It's a very childish and simplified view of history, with clear "good vs evil" motifs like it came out of the mind of a 2 year old. Nobody cares about nuance. Such as the fact that relatively few of the slaveowners even fought in that war. It was just young boys being forced to die in it simply because they lived in the South, while the landowners could pay their way out of the draft. It's only fair to honor the memory of the average soldier. Their lives were not their own and their deaths a travesty, just as others. All they have left is the memory of their families who bear the tragedy.

But.. the modern mindset prefers to demonize them too.

PSA: No, I'm not a supporter of the Confederacy or biased in my need to defend them. I'm a half-White/half-Asian guy who has nothing to do with it.. and my Dad's caucasian family didn't even immigrate to the US until the turn of the 20th century. I'm not here snickering in the corner like some undercover KKK member. Just saying.

It has nothing to do with the Confederacy as it really was. It has to do with the golden dream of the "Lost Cause" and the extent to which that is associated with the right-wing Christian radicals who make up a substantial part of Trump's base.

 

[straykat]

It has nothing to do with the Confederacy as it really was. It has to do with the golden dream of the "Lost Cause" and the extent to which that is associated with the right-wing Christian radicals who make up a substantial part of Trump's base.

There's definitely a subset of these fools, but substantial? They had to invite protesters from all across the country just to hold that infamous Charleston rally. No better than every other stupid white nationalist rally that results in few attendees. Even online, it's not much. 8chan /pol/ was probably the biggest place they congregated anonymously, but their number is the low thousands.

There aren't that many KKK/Neo Nazi types, and you've been b.s.'ed into thinking there is. For whatever reason.

And it's been this way for a long while. I can count on one hand that I've actually encountered neo-nazis (once resulting in a car full of them chasing me and my friends). This was way back in the 90s.. and it's still the same. They live on the outskirts. There are no bogeymen hiding behind every corner, let alone taking over entire political parties.

If anything, you should gain confidence from knowing this, taking heart that your enemy is very small. Instead of making them larger and more imposing than they are.

 

[durangodawood]

People really should retire that flag once and for all. The association with human enslavement and brutal racism is just too damning.

 

[JackRT]

People really should retire that flag once and for all. The association with human enslavement and brutal racism is just too damning.

Perhaps a better flag to fly would be the last confederate battle flag --- it was entirely white.

 

[Speedwell]

There's definitely a subset of these fools, but substantial? They had to invite protesters from all across the country just to hold that infamous Charleston rally. No better than every other stupid white nationalist rally that results in few attendees. Even online, it's not much. 8chan /pol/ was probably the biggest place they congregated anonymously, but their number is the low thousands.

Low thousands??? The Christian Right make up 25% of the voting population.

There aren't that many KKK/Neo Nazi types, and you've been b.s.'ed into thinking there is. For whatever reason.

No there aren't very many of those, but that's not who I'm talking about.

And it's been this way for a long while. I can count on one hand that I've actually encountered neo-nazis (once resulting in a car full of them chasing me and my friends). This was way back in the 90s.. and it's still the same. They live on the outskirts. There are no bogeymen hiding behind every corner, let alone taking over entire political parties.

If anything, you should gain confidence from knowing this, taking heart that your enemy is very small. Instead of making them larger and more imposing than they are.

The demographic is slowly shrinking, aging out mostly, but it's still a substantial bloc of voters. And as long as Trump stays in power, packing the courts with sympathetic judges, their political power will be amplified.

 

[Speedwell]

People really should retire that flag once and for all. The association with human enslavement and brutal racism is just too damning.

The flag most commonly seen--the rectangular St. Andrews cross flag--was never the national flag of the Confederacy. It came into use after the war has always been a symbol of the unreconstructed Southern "heritage."

 

[straykat]

Low thousands??? The Christian Right make up 25% of the voting population.

No there aren't very many of those, but that's not who I'm talking about.

The demographic is slowly shrinking, aging out mostly, but it's still a substantial bloc of voters. And as long as Trump stays in power, packing the courts with sympathetic judges, their political power will be amplified.

Oh, you're just simply against the Christian right in general? It sounded like you meant the racists, but it seems you didn't. My apologies. As for the Christian right, I guess I'm among them. Or at least, a social conservative, but open to some politically left leanings. I'm all for packing the courts with sympathetic judges though, just on abortion alone.

As for population numbers, are you saying Christians conservatives are dying out? I don't see how. They're the ones largely having more families, not aborting their children, and not killing themselves off with degenerate behavior. The same goes for conservative Muslims, Hindus, etc.. It's not even necessarily conservative or religious per se. You could say that all of these qualities can be interpreted in Darwinian terms, and that these people are holding up systems that reward human fertility and propagation. Others are acting like genetic mutants, going against the grain, will die alone, and without families to remember them. Ironically, the very people who might help slow this down are the conservatives who want to prevent abortions.

 

[grasping the after wind]

From my perspective having one less parade is not a bad thing.

 

[Speedwell]

Oh, you're just simply against the Christian right in general? It sounded like you meant the racists, but it seems you didn't. My apologies. As for the Christian right, I guess I'm among them. Or at least, a social conservative, but open to some politically left leanings. I'm all for packing the courts with sympathetic judges though, just on abortion alone.

As for population numbers, are you saying Christians conservatives are dying out? I don't see how. They're the ones largely having more families, not aborting their children, and not killing themselves off with degenerate behavior. The same goes for conservative Muslims, Hindus, etc.. It's not even necessarily conservative or religious per se. You could say that all of these qualities can be interpreted in Darwinian terms, and that these people are holding up systems that reward human fertility and propagation. Others are acting like genetic mutants, going against the grain, will die alone, and without families to remember them. Ironically, the very people who might help slow this down are the conservatives who want to prevent abortions.

Yes, dying out. Younger evangelicals are not fully on board with all of the Christian Right hot button issues, such as hostlity to "out" LGBTs and gun control.

Abortion is a separate question, really. Not all of us who think abortion is wrong agree with the Christian
Right's approach to the problem.

 

[usexpat97]

From my perspective having one less parade is not a bad thing.

My feeling is not that far off. It's a doggone PARADE. If people are going to raise such a stink about a PARADE, why am I volunteering my time organizing it? The point is community pride. Clearly the community feels the opposite.

 

[SummerMadness]

Perhaps a better flag to fly would be the last confederate battle flag --- it was entirely white.

It's the only flag that mattered. I still don't know why anyone wants to support an un-American flag that was meant to destroy the United States of America and the Constitution.