NBC Series on Transgender Children

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Sword of the Lord

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No surgical result looks completely normal right after surgery. None. After full healing and normal activities resume, most do look normal. And they function normal.

They were all definitely healed.

Do they also function normally in child birth?
 
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StephanieSomer

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I didn't say you can't be a Christian. I hold fast to the fact that you're sinning. People chopping off body parts and/or creating artificial parts to be a different sex wasn't a thing back then. He made them male and female. Another thing: if you say you're a woman although you were born a man, and you say you are still attracted to women, and you engage in this, you say it's ok to be a lesbian. If you say you're a woman although you were born a man, and you're attracted to men, and engage in this, the fact of the matter is it's still a homosexual act.


To be accurate, I HAVE stated my sexuality in the past. And, you have no understanding of what it is, obviously.

But, more to the point that you raise. There are a few different ways to classify sexuality. A lot depends from what perspective you are working from. It is sometimes determined by genitalia. It is also sometimes determined by genes. And, it is also sometimes determined by the internal sexual organs. There are problems with all of them, since not all people have all of those elements in complete agreement. It might surprise you that most in the psychological fields determine sexuality by genitals. In that case, a MtF partnering with a man AFTER completing surgery would be classed as heterosexual, not as homosexual.

I do recognize that that troubles some people and when they understand how psychological professionals categorize transsexuals, some alter their opinions and abandon any arguments which include genitalia. However, as I already stated, there are problems with all three methods of determining sexuality. Exceptions can always be found which break the rules one uses; whether they use genitalia, genetics, or internal organs.

But, there is a 4th method to determine sexuality which most people overlook. And that method determines it on the basis of gender. Gender is an internally felt element that has no physical indicators. It also is almost unchangeable. Using that as a basis, what might appear as homosexual to one would be heterosexual to another.

I will not make any determination on which method is absolute, since I don't see any of them as being completely perfect. But, I do recognize the validity of each of them. However, most who are in opposition to transition will refuse to acknowledge the validity of any particular one which conflicts with their mindset. What I have witnessed in the past, is opponents switching which determining method they use in their arguments against transition when it suits them. That has to be recognized as dishonest.

In the end, it makes no difference which method anyone uses to attempt to determine my own sexuality because none of them applies to my situation. And any such attempts are usually wrong.

Edited: I would be curious to know how you would classify the relationship between a transman and a transwoman. I happen to know such a couple personally.
 
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StephanieSomer

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I hold fast to the fact that you're sinning. People chopping off body parts and/or creating artificial parts to be a different sex wasn't a thing back then. He made them male and female.


Scripture does not support that to which you "hold fast".

People have been altering their anatomy in such cases for millennia.

Yes, He DID create humans as male and female. He also created them completely whole and fully integrated within their beings. He also created them to be eternal. Death was a result of the fall, remember? Before the fall, they would never have died. In fact, many things in creation are not as God created, and have not been according to design since the fall. The vast majority of those things are completely unalterable. But, if God, (who gave man intellect), has allowed the medical profession the knowledge to alleviate the suffering caused by that which is different from what God originally intended, why do you call that "sin"? Scripture does not do so.

In fact, Scripture DOES make it clear that calling something "sin" which God does not, is sin in itself. We are not the determiners of what constitutes sin. God is. And He makes no such determination.
 
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StephanieSomer

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Such confused, blind hate. On behalf of the fearful idiots, I apologise, and hope you won't hold it against the rest of us.

To the fearful idiots, l say "knock it off, and go look up 'evidence based practice'".


Armoured, most here aren't aware that I was raised RCC and I am very understanding of the difficulties many have in understanding this issue, as are MOST people. The inability to understand this is not their fault. I hold it against no one. The plain truth is that we gain knowledge through the process of comparing the unknown to that which we DO know and categorizing the newly acquired knowledge accordingly. All education systems are built on this foundational truth. However, there is nothing else within the realm of human experience that is anything like transsexuality. Hence, the huge majority of people will never "get it", since the huge majority of people are not transsexual. Many of the catchwords and phrases that are commonly used by transsexuals to try and explain it are often ridiculed and mocked by others simply because they fail to understand those words and phrases as allegorical, not definitive. Once a person embarks on a mocking tone, understanding is short-circuited and cannot take place. I do not engage with my opponents in an attempt to change their minds. I see that as unrealistic. I engage with them for the sake of those who are reading and have not reached any conclusion and are still trying to understand.
 
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Armoured

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Armoured, most here aren't aware that I was raised RCC and I am very understanding of the difficulties many have in understanding this issue, as are MOST people. The inability to understand this is not their fault. I hold it against no one. The plain truth is that we gain knowledge through the process of comparing the unknown to that which we DO know and categorizing the newly acquired knowledge accordingly. All education systems are built on this foundational truth. However, there is nothing else within the realm of human experience that is anything like transsexuality. Hence, the huge majority of people will never "get it", since the huge majority of people are not transsexual. Many of the catchwords and phrases that are commonly used by transsexuals to try and explain it are often ridiculed and mocked by others simply because they fail to understand those words and phrases as allegorical, not definitive. Once a person embarks on a mocking tone, understanding is short-circuited and cannot take place. I do not engage with my opponents in an attempt to change their minds. I see that as unrealistic. I engage with them for the sake of those who are reading and have not reached any conclusion and are still trying to understand.
You are much more patient than l suspect ll could ever be.
 
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StephanieSomer

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You are much more patient than l suspect ll could ever be.


That's an often overlooked benefit of what I was born with.

You will also find, if you look closely, that those who love the fullest, or hate the most, are those who have borne great pain. There are two alternate endings to the same inputs. And, patience is borne of love.
 
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FlaviusAetius

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Well, that's what a lot of folks believe. The difference seems to be that feeling "disgusted" with oneself somehow becomes forgiveness. Others lack of disgust seems to mean that they are incapable of asking forgiveness.
I guess self esteem is a ticket to hell.
welcome back Hetta! Where have you been?

Actually considering you're in "admiration" for Catholics I'd think you'd know that feeling shame for ones actions is part of the process of giving a valid confession that relieves a person from their sins. Should a murderer who has no regrets for his actions be forgiven?

While I would never consider hiding my complete circumstances, I wonder why you might think this so horrible when MOST people who marry do not reveal ALL their past sexual partners to their spouse. Is that really any different? After all, in reality, when one engages in sex they are engaging in sex with ALL their partners past partners. "The two become one", yes?

Mocking the words of Christ. And then you get your whole troupe of liberals to praise you on what a good and patient Christian you are. Absolutely disgusting. First in foremost the ideal would be two virgins marrying, obviously that's almost never the case anymore. The lower ideal would probably be honesty about past relationships, for heterosexual relations and more importantly if the person has ever had homosexual relations. That way their partner is aware that their opposite is bisexual/homosexual and give them a chance to break it off before their stuck together.

Transexual Traps are taking that form of lying to the next abominable step. Causing their partner to commit acts of homosexuality with them even being aware of it. Openness about their mental illness must be informed; of course as trans get more bold more of them will side with lying about their birth gender.

In the end, it makes no difference which method anyone uses to attempt to determine my own sexuality because none of them applies to my situation. And any such attempts are usually wrong.

So basically, you want Christians to destroy every notion of sexuality they've held and exchange it for your godless interpretation? Sorry that should never happen. All people who get involved with transsexuals should be classed as homosexuals. A MtF tran with a male partner is homosexual for being men who willingly has sex with the same sex, regardless of surgery done. A MtF tran with a female partner is a homosexual for desiring the same sex based on outer appearances of being a woman. As for two trannies together, technically it cannot be counted as homosexual but it's still the greatest affront to God that this world has created yet.

I await the liberal retort of four versus one. Such a Catholic site OBOB, filled to the brim with non-Catholics forcing their beliefs and liberalism and their liberal Catholic allies.
 
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StephanieSomer

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Actually considering you're in "admiration" for Catholics I'd think you'd know that feeling shame for ones actions is part of the process of giving a valid confession that relieves a person from their sins. Should a murderer who has no regrets for his actions be forgiven?



Mocking the words of Christ. And then you get your whole troupe of liberals to praise you on what a good and patient Christian you are. Absolutely disgusting. First in foremost the ideal would be two virgins marrying, obviously that's almost never the case anymore. The lower ideal would probably be honesty about past relationships, for heterosexual relations and more importantly if the person has ever had homosexual relations. That way their partner is aware that their opposite is bisexual/homosexual and give them a chance to break it off before their stuck together.

Transexual Traps are taking that form of lying to the next abominable step. Causing their partner to commit acts of homosexuality with them even being aware of it. Openness about their mental illness must be informed; of course as trans get more bold more of them will side with lying about their birth gender.



So basically, you want Christians to destroy every notion of sexuality they've held and exchange it for your godless interpretation? Sorry that should never happen. All people who get involved with transsexuals should be classed as homosexuals. A MtF tran with a male partner is homosexual for being men who willingly has sex with the same sex, regardless of surgery done. A MtF tran with a female partner is a homosexual for desiring the same sex based on outer appearances of being a woman. As for two trannies together, technically it cannot be counted as homosexual but it's still the greatest affront to God that this world has created yet.

I await the liberal retort of four versus one. Such a Catholic site OBOB, filled to the brim with non-Catholics forcing their beliefs and liberalism and their liberal Catholic allies.


You are so inconsistent in the things you say that it is impossible for ANYONE to believe a word you speak.

Secondly, how is my asexuality an affront to anyone? You make such broad sweeping characterizations of what you have no knowledge.

Lastly, the word "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]" is an expletive, whether you want to admit it or not. It is highly insulting. I find it doubtful that you've never been made aware of that fact. It has been posted numerous times in many threads concerning this topic how insulting it is. I request you cease using such demeaning words. If your arguments hold water, they should be able to stand on their own without stooping to such behavior.

BTW, I AM a Christian. And I am not godless as you suppose.
 
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dzheremi

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I thought homosexuality was a sexual attraction to the same sex? If a person were to sleep with someone who is transgender without knowing that they were, and the resulting pair were appearing to be of different sexes, how could it still be homosexuality (since the attraction would still be to the "other" sex, even if biologically they are in fact the same sex)? That's just confusing. No wonder I don't understand any of this stuff. Not only is it fairly new in society in general, it's very, very confusing. Perhaps in the future, in addition to the usual vows of fidelity to one another, marrieds will first have to submit chromosomal tests that prove that they are the sex they say they are. This world is getting very complicated today.
 
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Hetta

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Actually considering you're in "admiration" for Catholics I'd think you'd know that feeling shame for ones actions is part of the process of giving a valid confession that relieves a person from their sins. Should a murderer who has no regrets for his actions be forgiven?

Mocking the words of Christ. And then you get your whole troupe of liberals to praise you on what a good and patient Christian you are. Absolutely disgusting. First in foremost the ideal would be two virgins marrying, obviously that's almost never the case anymore. The lower ideal would probably be honesty about past relationships, for heterosexual relations and more importantly if the person has ever had homosexual relations. That way their partner is aware that their opposite is bisexual/homosexual and give them a chance to break it off before their stuck together.

Transexual Traps are taking that form of lying to the next abominable step. Causing their partner to commit acts of homosexuality with them even being aware of it. Openness about their mental illness must be informed; of course as trans get more bold more of them will side with lying about their birth gender.

So basically, you want Christians to destroy every notion of sexuality they've held and exchange it for your godless interpretation? Sorry that should never happen. All people who get involved with transsexuals should be classed as homosexuals. A MtF tran with a male partner is homosexual for being men who willingly has sex with the same sex, regardless of surgery done. A MtF tran with a female partner is a homosexual for desiring the same sex based on outer appearances of being a woman. As for two trannies together, technically it cannot be counted as homosexual but it's still the greatest affront to God that this world has created yet.

I await the liberal retort of four versus one. Such a Catholic site OBOB, filled to the brim with non-Catholics forcing their beliefs and liberalism and their liberal Catholic allies.
And here is an agnostic forcing his beliefs on non-agnostics. Interesting.

It's sad to read these kind of attacks on people that you don't even know. I wonder if, whether you were face to face with Stephanie, you would unleash such venom on her. I suspect not. The internet gives people an opportunity to say things they would never say IRL.

The greatest affront to God is hatred. Do you know what the six things are that God hates?

There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil,
a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.


There is a LOT of stirring up of conflict in the name of God. So odd that he actually hates that.
 
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Hetta

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I thought homosexuality was a sexual attraction to the same sex? If a person were to sleep with someone who is transgender without knowing that they were, and the resulting pair were appearing to be of different sexes, how could it still be homosexuality (since the attraction would still be to the "other" sex, even if biologically they are in fact the same sex)? That's just confusing. No wonder I don't understand any of this stuff. Not only is it fairly new in society in general, it's very, very confusing. Perhaps in the future, in addition to the usual vows of fidelity to one another, marrieds will first have to submit chromosomal tests that prove that they are the sex they say they are. This world is getting very complicated today.
I don't think there will be the need to prove one's sexuality.

You know there are people here who, if you are genuinely interested to learn, can make it much less confusing for you.
 
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Tallguy88

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MOD HAT ON

Thread closed for review.


UPDATE: Staff came to a consensus to keep this thread permanently closed. The thread was promoting teachings that are against Catholic beliefs/theology. There was a lot of Flaming going on as well. While this thread is in the Politics forum it was no longer debating any legal, social or historical views of transexualism and had moved on to the morality of it. At this point the thread is no longer salvageable.


MOD HAT OFF
 
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