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NBC Series on Transgender Children

Discussion in 'OBOB General Politics Forum' started by eastcoast_bsc, Apr 22, 2015.

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  1. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Not everyone is comfortable with having pictures of themselves on the internet, and in this instance, I would not blame the poster you are asking for not complying with your request. I'm not any kind of transgendered person and reading this exchange even made me uncomfortable. You're conversing with a person here, before anything else. It would be more respectful not to treat them like a puzzle to be figured out, or some other kind of game.

    Do you feel ashamed for talking about other people in this way? I certainly would. Why would you judge others like this, and call them clowns? That's just mean-spirited and rude.

    I just don't understand at what point "This person is living a lifestyle with which I disagree/which I would not advocate is a good way to live" crosses the line to "This person should be treated as somehow less than a person, ridiculed, and made to feel like a circus sideshow". If everyone is made in the image and likeness of God (and I don't recall any exceptions to this in the Bible), then this is downright insulting to God. And, sure, you can say "Well, they are insulting Him first by claiming to have been 'made wrong' and needing to be 'corrected'!" or similar, but while I don't really understand this particular issue (I know two people in my personal life who have had sex reassignment surgery, and I have to be honest that I still don't "get" it; but I don't think everything is necessarily meant to be understood by everyone, anyway), I can see at least parallel between that personal view (the view that this is the case in ones personal life with regard to their personal identity) and the view that is at the heart of traditional Christian anthropology that says we are all damaged by the effects of sin in this world and we need to be healed. So my personal objections to this particular medical advance is that it portends to heal people in a completely Godless, secular way which I believe to be ultimately impossible and dangerously deceptive, but may God help me if that should ever cause me to treat transgendered people as anything less than fellow human beings, beloved and created by God, and with inherent dignity on that account that it is not my business to try to degrade. I may not understand them, but what's so difficult to understand about "treat people decently"?
     
  2. eastcoast_bsc

    eastcoast_bsc Veteran

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    Stephanie, can you provide a link to substantiate your claims. From my experience with activist, is that they attack and malign the person who is the target without any evidence.

    The reason I posted, wad that I read and watched the companion NBC video.
    Inhad read about Dr. McHugh in the past and Inhave never seen any proof of your claims.

    Could you please cite your evidence.
     
  3. eastcoast_bsc

    eastcoast_bsc Veteran

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    Mike you need to work on being more respectful toward your fellow humans.
    Try to imagine how you would feel if others talked about you as if you were not human.
     
  4. StephanieSomer

    StephanieSomer Regular Member

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    I generally consider the source and respond accordingly. Some don't get a response, based on their past behavior.
     
  5. Hetta

    Hetta believing the strangest things, loving the alien

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    What a wonderful concept - treat people decently. Do you think it might catch on?

    I enjoyed this post and you give me hope that at least some Christians actually under what love is and endeavor to in fact love their neighbor as themselves.
     
  6. StephanieSomer

    StephanieSomer Regular Member

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    Your obvious understanding of what Christ meant by "love as I have loved you", is well appreciated. Thank you.
     
  7. StephanieSomer

    StephanieSomer Regular Member

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    Dubious choice for resolving church scandal - SFGate
     
  8. eastcoast_bsc

    eastcoast_bsc Veteran

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  9. FlaviusAetius

    FlaviusAetius Well-Known Member

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    Well now, being polite seems to be the top priority. Since you are on a Catholic sub-board, despite being a Jew every time you address Jesus I think it's only right you refer to Him as the true Son of God...in the spirit of polite discussion of course.
     
  10. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Wow. Pronouns are now on the level of belief in Jesus' divine sonship? The RCC must've changed a lot in the 6 years since I left it! ;)
     
  11. FlaviusAetius

    FlaviusAetius Well-Known Member

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    Both require the individual to lie for the sake of politeness. A Jew believing in Jesus's divinity and someone against sex reassignment calling a MtF person a woman.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  12. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    If Jesus registers and asks me to address him this way, I'll discuss it with him.
     
  13. StephanieSomer

    StephanieSomer Regular Member

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    I'm not surprised you'd dismiss it. It doesn't say what you want it to say.
    However, if you DO actually do some research on Paul McHugh and his relationship to the rest of his profession, you will find he's not held in such high regard by the rest of them as his education would lead most non-practitioners to believe.
     
  14. Sword of the Lord

    Sword of the Lord In need of a physician.

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    Stephanie and Tink: When I was praying the Chotki I had a heavy feeling on my heart that I needed to apologize to the both of you. I'm sorry.
     
  15. Foamhead

    Foamhead I like water

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    I am always fascinated by gay and trans people who identify as Christians. I can't help but feel like they are suffering from some sort of stockholm syndrome.

    At any rate, as to the topic at hand:

    I am not an expert in human psychology but I am a male who is diagnosed with gender identity disorder. I am considered severe enough to qualify for gender reassignment surgery and have some knowledge of the procedures and qualifications.

    1. Although many trans people tend to be gay this is not even close to universal. The rate of trans people who happen to be gay is approximately 52% when I last read research on the subject. I for example am attracted only to women and have little interest in sex at all.

    2. Gender reassignment surgery is cutting edge and there have been cases of husbands getting married and not finding out until years later that their spouse used to be a man. In fact this sort of thing is so common now that there are ethical debates in the trans community on weather a spouse has the right to know if their wife is trans. They even have a term called "stealth"; i.e. cutting all ties with your former life and living as a woman no one the wiser.

    3. Children are certainly aware of their gender identity at a young age. I personally remember hiding my junk under a washcloth when I was in the bath or shower as young as four years old. I did this because I did not wish to have to remind myself I was male. (easier to do pre-puberty). I could also tell you other bizarre things young trans children do but you get the idea. I was fully aware about the differences between boys and girls bodies even when I was little. I wanted to be princess Leia and not Han Solo or Luke Skywalker when we played or used action figures. Not that i would have ever said this to anyone, but at least I could get away with using the Leia action figure without raising questions.

    4. Trans people have done horrible things to themselves including suicide, mutilation and even self surgery. Google if you aren't the squeamish type. Some of the things people have done to themselves is truly ghastly. It is deep denial or ignorance to think people don't do this to themselves over some kink or fetish.

    5. Hormone blockers do zero damage to children where forcing them to undergo puberty has caused Children to commit suicide. People who call it child abuse simply have no interest in the child's welfare and are speaking out of there own ignorance and homophobia.
     
  16. FlaviusAetius

    FlaviusAetius Well-Known Member

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    That needs to be debated?! What kind of abominable person lies to their partner about something so significant? Though I suppose it only effects individuals who want sex but don't want to ever raise a family so my sympathy is diminished.

    I swear every part of this world seems honed in on tearing down God's ideals with a hammer. I'm surprised Gnosticism isn't coming back in style, Satan has full command over the human race!
     
  17. Sword of the Lord

    Sword of the Lord In need of a physician.

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    Quite frankly, I don't believe the reassignment surgeries can be *that* good. There's a lot of detail to the outer appearance of a vagina. How do you make a clitoris? That alone is a lot of detail. If you have oral sex, the guy is going to know, especially by feel as well. How can you make an accurate labia? I get that you can create a hole and the camel toe appearance, but I'm not buying the finer details and the actual feeling of a vagina. What about the ridges of the internal vagina? Do they make those? I honestly believe that the only men that could be fooled by this are the men that were virgins going in and have either never looked at porn or never bothered to look closely enough, and who didn't take sex ed. Also, what about the part that women urinate out of? Wouldn't he expect that to be there, and, you know, look the way it's supposed to? How do you create that? Once again, ever harder to fake if you have oral sex.

    As to the Stockholm Syndrome remark: sinful people can't believe in Christ???
     
  18. Sword of the Lord

    Sword of the Lord In need of a physician.

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    Whenever I fall to the temptation of porn, once in awhile the vagina will look odd. I mean, I can tell it's a vagina, but the appearance is just different to that of the standard vagina. If the eye can perceive small details as being a little weird in a real vagina, what makes you think men won't notice a surgically created vagina? Heck, maybe, just maybe, when the vagina looks off I'm unwittingly viewing a trans person... Which would still make the same point that it ain't quite right.
     
  19. Foamhead

    Foamhead I like water

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    I find this post crude but in answer to your question males and females are almost biologically identical, including their intimate parts. Converting a male to a female is not that difficult and the equivalent of turning a bellybutton from and outtie to an innie. If you are really that interested then google it. I doubt the details are appropriate for this forum.

    The external part of a woman's genitals is called the vulva, not vagina. And women like all people come in many shapes and sizes. I am also amused that in your zeal to insist you'd never be fooled by a transwoman that you, a married man, admitted to looking at pornography on a Christian forum. It's like the "I couldn't have killed that man your honour, I was in another town killing another man at the time!" defense.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
  20. Sword of the Lord

    Sword of the Lord In need of a physician.

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    Crude? I'm trying to have a discussion here. We are all adults right? The cosmetic details won't be right. And they won't feel right, especially the clitoris.
     
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