Nazi Flag-Bearing Protesters at Holocaust Remembrance in Arkansas

[Shiloh Raven]

Before Trump's presidential campaign such right wing demonstrations were very much rarer. His very presence on the political scene seems to have enabled the haters.

Yes, he has embodied White supremacists and now they rally behind him and praise him.

Neo-Nazis explain why they support Donald Trump

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White supremacists and neo-Nazis are praising Trump’s "honest" Charlottesville comments

 

[Ironhold]

The hate is attractive in the States because the States never address their history destruction on hyphenated Americans,

To the contrary -

Repeated attempts at have been made at all levels to try and deal with the discrimination suffered by the various racial groups, but no matter how much people try you can readily find folks who still want more. For example, Corey Booker and a few other Democrat candidates for President have said that if elected they'll force the government to pay reparations for slavery.

Meanwhile, other groups who suffered - such as various religious groups - have been rather consistently ignored or even mocked when they bring up the concept of government actions against them being squared.

 

[Kaon]

Do you mean inciting violence like "Knock the crap out of them!" or suggesting that the "Second Amendment" people could act against Hillary Clinton if she got elected or even boasting something like: "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Ave. and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters"?

It would be different if a man or group said this... but these were said by he President to his people.

The facets of the history of the fall of American are already being formed, and have been for 70 years. It should be clear that the nation is getting it's incredible propensity for prejudice and hate exploited to destabilize the nation.

When the Pres speaks and sounds like your average entity despite the expectation of exceptionalism - and doesnt even have the couth to fake it - that is a stage in destabilization.

But alas, we are supposed to be too plugged in, distracted and unintelligent to realize we are frogs in water of increasing temp. Will humans ever learn the game of the exploitation of our ignorance?

 

[grasping the after wind]

I'd be happy to agree, but sadly after the last few years I have come to the conclusion that hate attracts hate.

It does. The one way to defeat hate is with love not more hate.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

{snip}It would be different if a man or group said this... but these were said by he President to his people.

Trump certainly took his time denouncing David Duke too and he finally did so after he had initially denied knowing who Duke is. He also suggested that there were some 'very fine people on both sides' when he was publicly addressing the Unite the Right White Nationalist violence in Charlottesville.

Trump’s David Duke Amnesia

Trump disavows David Duke endorsement after ducking question earlier

Trump Says There Were “Very Fine People on Both Sides” in Charlottesville

 

[grasping the after wind]

Do you mean inciting violence like "Knock the crap out of them!" or suggesting that the "Second Amendment" people could act against Hillary Clinton if she got elected or even boasting something like: "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Ave. and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters"?

how a bout "If they bring a knife we bring a gun" or "That kid has a punchable face"? If people only are outraged over rhetoric coming form their political opponents while cheering the same sort of thing coming form their political allies it is hard to take their moral outrage seriously.

 

[Kaon]

To the contrary -

Repeated attempts at have been made at all levels to try and deal with the discrimination suffered by the various racial groups, but no matter how much people try you can readily find folks who still want more. For example, Corey Booker and a few other Democrat candidates for President have said that if elected they'll force the government to pay reparations for slavery.

How is dealing with discrimination maintaining the same laws and practices that estranged and literally separate discriminated groups from their family, the free world and other systems afforded to non-hyphenated Americans. Are you trying to convince me there is no racism in America in 2020, and if there is it is the fault of the hyphenated Americans? Let's get to what the point is, because I am not debating 20 pages of American plea for social and economic relevance in the form of arguments for superficial "change" - especially in the opinion of the entities who turn blind eyes to the oppression.

Saying "stuff has been done" is ignorant - it is a position that literally ignores the "stuff" would never work, and that it was an insincere attempt in the first place. Realistically I don't expect anyone benefiting from a privilege to demand it to stop.

Meanwhile, other groups who suffered

False equivalencies marginalize efforts of equality, and increase resentment by ignoring the affects. That is a psychological issue, also.

- such as various religious groups - have been rather consistently ignored or even mocked when they bring up the concept of government actions against them being squared.

Why do Americans think what is going on is religious oppression? Have Americans been to China, or Korea, or even the middle east? Have Americans been murdered on a daily basis for their beliefs yet?

I think very few Americans are ready to die for their god, and they are definitely not willing to die for something outside of their "tribe" and "totem" - which usually has self and circumstance at the top. Perhaps this misunderstanding in religious oppression and anthropology is a reason why people may believe "stuff has been done" to assuage prejudice and racism in the States when it should be clear the prejudice and racism has simply been telegraphed to a different vector of entitlement.

Hyphenated Americans are still sitting in jail innocent after decades of false assusation projected by hateful people who could get away with it. Hyphenated Americans are still being beaten and shot in the streets, but recently it seems there has been an accidental spill over onto other groups that matter.

Nothing has changed about America except the psychological application to tyranny and exploitation. The irony is the people who succumb to faceted discrimination are already being exploited without their knowledge. Everyone plays a proper agent of history already written - this time it is the history of the States.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

how a bout "If they bring a knife we bring a gun" or "That kid has a punchable face"? If people only are outraged over rhetoric coming form their political opponents while cheering the same sort of thing coming form their political allies it is hard to take their moral outrage seriously.

And who said I cheered that on? I didn't. Both are wrong. I'm also curious which liberals cheered that on. Do you have any names and links to verify it? And the whataboutism in this response to distract attention away from Trump's behavior is nothing more than another ad nauseam deflection.

 

[Kaon]

how a bout "If they bring a knife we bring a gun" or "That kid has a punchable face"? If people only are outraged over rhetoric coming form their political opponents while cheering the same sort of thing coming form their political allies it is hard to take their moral outrage seriously.

The standard of the President exceeds that of the common person, or representation of the common person (congressperson).

In the West, the President comes from a political idealism of the Monarchy, which comes from Caesar, which comes fro Pharaoahs, which comes from Sumer.

In other words, the president is the next step from a god - and that has been psychologically built into the generations. You may not believe the President is a god, but you allow it to be substantiated by defending his actions. Do you think Christians and our God would be except if The Most High God Himself said the thing some of our foolish lot say? The ability to connect the ignorance of man, tangentially, to the Most High God has caused holy wars - yet the PRESIDENT of the States is on par with serfdom reproach?

There are several elephants in the room being ignored in order to justify not just the OP, but continuous history before our eyes. The fall of the empire is proportional to the ignorance of the legitimate cries of the oppressed. This is history in the making that could be prevented if we weren't ignorant of our history, and so easily distracted by lights (TV) and emotion.

 

[Ana the Ist]

By design. Psychology on humans can have intergenerational effects. Romanticism of human growth and potential is an exploitation of the psyche, and is the reason people are confused and emotional - surprised - when atrocities happen.

Humans have too much faith in humans, and other humans heavily exploit it. History shows this.

That's gotta be it.

The hate is attractive in the States because the States never address their history destruction on hyphenated Americans, natives and (descendants of) slaves they use to fast track the nation, and keep in New Slavery.

New Slavery?

Oh ok.

For a second I thought this was a real reply.

This way, when someone brings up the atrocities, it breeds hate and resentment - especially with the progeny of the masters of hate - and nothing is accomplished. Those aforementioned hated groups, thusly, look like they are whining and attempting to take over "their majority." This is just so painfully hackneyed I don't understand how in the age of college education for the serf people don't realize we are repeating history that is very recent.

The serf...masters of hate....

At least it's entertaining.

Logic will handicap everyone who extols it in the coming days.

Logic is definitely a problem for some.

 

[grasping the after wind]

And who said I cheered that on? I didn't. Both are wrong. I'm also curious which liberals cheered that on. Do you have any names and links to verify it? And the whataboutism in this response to distract attention away from Trump's behavior is nothing more than another ad nauseam deflection.

I do not recall specifying you, personally, or liberals in my comment about the hypocrisy of outrage. If you took it personally , I apologize but I assure you I was not singling you or liberals out with that comment about people refusing to be outraged by the same behavior on their own political side as they hurry to be offended by when it is engaged in by the other side. There are surely many Trump supporters and many conservatives and republicans as well that display the tendencies I spoke of not just those on the left and not all of those on any political side are guilty. Independents may even at times do this, though not being partisans, they are less likely to see the world in terms of us vs them. As for links to people cheering on the words I quoted, I found quite a few however it seems they all include language that is not allowed on CF so I am unable to link to them. One tweeted a promise to perform an oral sex act for anyone willing to punch a certain minor boy in the face. If you are curious enough to want to see those things then you can google the quotes but I cannot provide them under the rules.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Realistically I don't expect anyone benefiting from a privilege to demand it to stop.

So politicians and bureaucrats won't be asking to be treated like regular citizens any time soon. Nor will Planned parenthood, Elon Musk, Big agriculture, NEA, Big oil, or any other special interest groups or any protected classes be asking to make their way on their merits alone and not be given stipends or special treatment by the government ? What a surprise!

 

[Kaon]

So politicians and bureaucrats won't be asking to be treated like regular citizens any time soon. Nor will Planned parenthood, Elon Musk, Big agriculture, NEA, Big oil, or any other special interest groups or any protected classes be asking to make their way on their merits alone and not be given stipends or special treatment by the government ? What a surprise!

It isn't a surprise that they try; what is a surprise is that in an age of instant information, rise in layperson power and influence, and at least the superficial ability to change nations from the foundation - we still choose to accept the same refuse as our historical counterparts died trying to prevent. How can anyone accept this type of thing while at the same time squabble with their fellow man - no matter the prefix they are American? How can you get mad at the politicians who are just playing a game they know they can win? We will fight each other before we fight a real problem. Don't people value themselves more?

That is the psychological problem, and the reason America, and nations like it are destined to fall by their own sword of prejudice and disharmony. America isn't a nation that was forged from a culture of unity; it was forged in a foundry of inequality and disdain. It shouldn't be a surprise, either, that Americans are having the very conversations they have to this day. It is also why, as said, America is being destabilized from the inside out - it doesn't even matter if it is from another nation at this point because the exploitation of emotional culture (part of foreign destabilization) distracts the people from any "tangible" problem. There won't be a "rallying" because we are still stuck in the 50s-60s... and we have the audacity to believe we are a beacon for the world when we have never acted any better than children at the lunch table judging who can, and cannot sit with us.

 

[grasping the after wind]

---SE---

I have only one disagreement with you here. I do not think the moral or legal standard for a President should exceed that of the rest of us. Frankly, I would be happy if all government employees were expected to live up to the standard that other citizens are expected to live up to but the moral and most especially the legal standard for politicians seems to be much lower in actual practice. I also think the term common man is an anachronism and foolish and insulting when applied to a free citizen in a representative republic but as it was not your term I am not taking issue with something you said when I take issue with that.

 

[Kaon]

I have only one disagreement with you here. I do not think the moral or legal standard for a President should exceed that of the rest of us. Frankly, I would be happy if all government employees were expected to live up to the standard that other citizens are expected to live up to but the moral and most especially the legal standard for politicians seems to be much lower in actual practice. I also think the term common man is an anachronism and foolish and insulting when applied to a free citizen in a representative republic but as it was not your term I am not taking issue with something you said when I take issue with that.

I used the word "common man", "layperson", and "serf" precisely because we behave as such - not because it is a misnomer for the time. The point is to be hyperbolic to get the attention of the reader - specifically to convict the reader to think about how s/he sees the world vs. how other see the world - or how the world actually is. It is a psychological exercise, especially to see the relationship between antiquity and modernity. It is the reason why I keep bringing up how we keep repeating history that people before us died to prevent from happening again - in the age of information.

And, no citizen is free; read your libraries of current law on that. You can be shot and killed as an unarmed, nonthreatening citizen by the persons who are expected to uphold the law. You can be detained without a warrant for an undetermined period of time. Privacy is nonexistent and the respective government entities are free to survey what they please. What we have is a romantic mirage of freedom (an illusion) - but the real truth is (based on our social programs and culture) we would be utterly lost if we had to confront real freedom. Even the Most High God says that you are a slave (context) to Him, or something else (ego, money, another human, etc.) You are not your own, and the ideas that we are the masters of our own universe are a romanticism of an old "Gnosticism".

 

[Ana the Ist]

I have only one disagreement with you here. I do not think the moral or legal standard for a President should exceed that of the rest of us. Frankly, I would be happy if all government employees were expected to live up to the standard that other citizens are expected to live up to but the moral and most especially the legal standard for politicians seems to be much lower in actual practice. I also think the term common man is an anachronism and foolish and insulting when applied to a free citizen in a representative republic but as it was not your term I am not taking issue with something you said when I take issue with that.

I think representatives, by the nature of the duty they undertake, should do their best to be exemplary people.

That's with the understanding that they're still flawed people like everyone else.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I used the word "common man", "layperson", and "serf" precisely because we behave as such - not because it is a misnomer for the time. The point is to be hyperbolic to get the attention of the reader - specifically to convict the reader to think about how s/he sees the world vs. how other see the world - or how the world actually is. It is a psychological exercise, especially to see the relationship between antiquity and modernity. It is the reason why I keep bringing up how we keep repeating history that people before us died to prevent from happening again - in the age of information.

[/QUOTE]

Then you're using the term serf wrong.

[QUOTE]
And, no citizen is free; read your libraries of current law on that. You can be shot and killed as an unarmed, nonthreatening citizen by the persons who are expected to uphold the law.

Sure, as a mistake.

You can be detained without a warrant for an undetermined period of time.

Actually most courts have an idea of what they consider "acceptable".

Privacy is nonexistent and the respective government entities are free to survey what they please. What we have is a romantic mirage of freedom (an illusion) - but the real truth is (based on our social programs and culture) we would be utterly lost if we had to confront real freedom. Even the Most High God says that you are a slave (context) to Him, or something else (ego, money, another human, etc.) You are not your own, and the idea that we are the masters of our own universe are a romanticism of an old "Gnosticism".

We live in society....that does include other people.

 

[Ironhold]

Why do Americans think what is going on is religious oppression? Have Americans been to China, or Korea, or even the middle east? Have Americans been murdered on a daily basis for their beliefs yet?

Jehovah's Witnesses and Quakers have historically been discriminated against and subjected to government actions because of their pacifism and their beliefs in being citizens of God's kingdom rather than any Earthly nation, while Mormons were subjected to state-sanctioned pogroms in the 1800s and very early 1900s.

It's something a *lot* of history books and "progressive" types like to ignore, but it's happened.

This is on top of the extreme anti-Catholic and anti-Mormon sentiment that various politicians have faced over the years.

 

[rjs330]

Has Trump called out this shameful display of racism against Jews yet? Wait... I think I already know the answer. Never mind. I guess he must think there are some "very fine people" on both sides.

Really? How many times does Trump have to say ythat racism is wrong? Everytime some moronic racist group makes an appearance? He's the president for crying out loud. He's got plenty more on his plate than to make a statement Everytime some stupid racist group makes an appearance. Does he comment Everytime Farakan makes a speech?

 

[JackRT]

This is on top of the extreme anti-Catholic and anti-Mormon sentiment that various politicians have faced over the years.

Not just politicians!