National Go Topless Day

Sammy-San

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Please answer my question. What is the difference between male nipples and female nipples? Why should men be allowed to expose their nipples in public while in most places women cannot except when breastfeeding?

Women's nipples are attached to breasts.
 
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Women's nipples are attached to breasts.
Actually men have breast tissue and some men have larger breasts then some women. So again what is the difference between male nipples and female nipples. Remember, you raised the issue if nipples, not me.
 
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Sammy-San

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The presence of absence of genital differences on mermaids doesn't matter. And that's kind of what I mean by it not being applicable. Mermaids aren't real, so you can't really discuss principles related to their genitals and then use that to reach conclusions that apply to humans. That's over complicating things, and veering into fantasy.

Mermaids don't always have to be covered. Breasts, whether real or cartoon, have a certain connotation. But I remember mermaids from my youth in a story book that were just drawn without breasts, not covered. I looked for a similar image, but couldn't find one. I did find this though, on a kid's "how to draw" site.

View attachment 194254

No clothing, no breasts, not sexualized, perfectly fine for kids.

I won't post it here (I found rather problematic images) but in contrast, I saw many mermaids with bared breasts in alluring poses, obviously drawn to elicit sexual attention.

It's usually not difficult to tell the difference. But this is probably too far afield for the OP's thread, so I don't want to talk anymore about it here out of respect for the OP.



Edit to reply to this one, because I don't want to post even more posts that may be off topic



I said children, not just girls. The reason I said "especially girls" is that each sex would have secondary challenges as a result, but the ones for the girls would be more serious. I had a daughter. I know why I wouldn't have shown her cartoons of topless young women (or mermaids).

How would you respond to the comment that, " some men have larger breasts then some women. So again what is the difference between male nipples and female nipples" with regards to mermaids?
 
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Why was someone cursed in the Bible for uncovering Noah's nakedness?

I think there are like 5 major interpretations of Gen.9 Here is the one I like best:
John Bergsma and Scott Hahn offer a compelling defense of a "maternal incest" view of the story of Noah's nakedness in Genesis 9 (JBL 124:1). They reject a "voyeurist" interpretation of the story. They find more to recommend a "paternal incest" view of the story, pointing to the parallels between Gen 9 and Gen 19 (incest of Lot and daughters); the sexual connotations of "uncover" and "nakedness" elsewhere in the OT; the sexual associations of wine and vineyard (including in Gen 19). Ultimately, they reject the paternal incest view (ie, that Ham sodomized his father) for a maternal incest view (ie, that Ham had sex with his mother). Their reasons are as follows:

1) The language of "uncover nakedness" is not used in Leviticus to describe homosexual incest but heterosexual incest.

2) Specifically, the "nakedness of the father" is identified with the "nakedness of your mother" (Lev 18:7-8).

3) If this is about Ham's incestuous sex with his mother, the emphasis on Canaan comes clear. Canaan is, on this interpretation, the product of the incestuous union, as Moab and Ammon are the product of Lot and his daughters. That is why Canaan is cursed, and why the text consistently identifies Ham as the "father of Canaan." They suggest that the narrative has been compressed, and that the curse was actually pronounced at Canaan's birth rather that immediately after the incest. If the incest was homosexual, it is difficult to explain how the curse would be placed on a son.

4) The maternal incest interpretation better shows the connections of Gen 9 with Gen 6, 19, Lev 18 and 20, Dt 23:1, 27:30, not to mention the maternal incest of Reuben. Genesis shows that the chief enemies of Israel - Canaan, Moab, Ammon - are all of questionable heritage.

5) This interpretation preserves the idea (articulated by Jim Jordan among others) that the story is about an attempted seizure of Noah's authority. Bergsma and Hahn quote a 1971 article from FW Basset: "A son who has sexual relations with his mother or step-mother commits a rebellious act against his father, since the possession of a man's wife is seen also as an effort to supplant the man himself." They note the connection with Absalom, Reuben, David's taking Saul's wives, Adonijah's attempt to have Abishag.

6) They suggest that "the tent" in v 21 "appears to have the feminine possessive suffix," though "the MT points the word according to the qere," ie, as "his tent." Thus, one might read the text as saying that Noah entered "her tent," the tent of Mrs Noah.

Their final reconstruction: Noah "becomes drunk"; this is disputed by Jordan, and there's no reason to make this a part of the story. He goes into his wife's tent and removes his robe to have sex with his wife, but "is incapacitated by his drunkenness" - again, not necessary to the story; Noah could well have had a vigorous roll before he fell asleep. The rest of the reconstruction is plausible: "Ham enters and 'sees his father's nakedness,' that is, engages in relations with his father's wife (v. 22a). He exits and informs his brothers of his grasp at familial power (v. 22b), perhaps producing an article of clothing as proof of his claim. The brothers, in turn, act with excessive filial deference and piety in returning 'the garment' . . . to their humiliated father, avoiding not only the figurative 'seeing of his father's nakedness' (i.e., maternal incest) but the literal as well. In the aftermath of the event, Noah curses the product of Ham's illicit union, namely, Canaan, and blesses Shem and Japheth for their piety" (pp. 38-39).

The value of this interpretation is several fold: It brings Gen 9 into conformity with other passages that employ the "uncover nakedness" language. It preserves the fact that Ham assaults Noah's authority. It links up with a recurring theme of Gen. - the patriarch who escapes a judgment (Noah, Lot, Jacob?) finds himself under assault from his son. It helps to explain the curse on Canaan; it links together Canaanite, Moabite, and Ammonite in their origins, thus explaining the links between these peoples later in biblical history.
 
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How would you respond to the comment that, " some men have larger breasts then some women. So again what is the difference between male nipples and female nipples" with regards to mermaids?
First, there is no such thing as a mermaid.

Second, this thread is about women going topless in public. You keep bring up cartoon characters. That is off topic. If you want to discuss cartoon characters please start your own thread.

Oh, and still waiting for you to answer the question that have been asked.
 
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Sammy-San

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First, there is no such thing as a mermaid.

Second, this thread is about women going topless in public. You keep bring up cartoon characters. That is off topic. If you want to discuss cartoon characters please start your own thread.

Oh, and still waiting for you to answer the question that have been asked.

It's just the way it is-certain people's chests are less decent to show than others.
 
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Since the fall of man, we knew we have to cover up genitals, backside, and women's nipples.
And where is scripture does it say that women need to cover their nipples?
 
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Sammy-San

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Sorry ,,, I don't find any scripture that says we have to cover up anything,

Can a Christian be a nudist? What does the Bible say about nudity?

Thus, God regarded clothing as appropriate and necessary in a fallen world.

Nudity now has implications of sinfulness attached to it. With few exceptions, the Bible presents nakedness as shameful and degrading (Genesis 9:21; Exodus 20:26; 32:25; 2 Chronicles 28:19; Isaiah 47:3; Ezekiel 16:35-36; Luke 8:27; Revelation 3:17; 16:15; 17:16). The only passages in which nudity is free of shame are those that describe Eden’s idyllic setting or that deal with marital relations (Proverbs 5:18-19; Song of Solomon 4).
 
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The Bible talks about women dressing with decency.
We have been through this over and over and over and I'm really getting tired repeating the same things. There is nothing in scripture that says that it is indecent for either men or women to go topless in public. Please provide a single verse.
 
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Sammy-San

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We have been through this over and over and over and I'm really getting tired repeating the same things. There is nothing in scripture that says that it is indecent for either men or women to go topless in public. Please provide a single verse.

Proverbs talks about breasts as a sexual object between a husband and wife.
 
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Proverbs talks about breasts as a sexual object between a husband and wife.
You keep repeating yourself on such things because there is nothing in scripture to support your claim. Scripture also mentions a woman's eyes, neck, cheeks, and ankles in sexual terms but we don't require that they be covered.

Please, just provide one verse that says that a woman must cover her nipples. Just one.
 
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How would you respond to the comment that, " some men have larger breasts then some women. So again what is the difference between male nipples and female nipples" with regards to mermaids?
I had stopped following this thread, Sam, because it's fruitless.


But I'd suggest forgetting about mermaids and nipples and stop trying to define things in preceise legal terms, because with taking a step back, I see that is a pit.

This is a heart issue, IMO.

We know that men view women's breast sexually, and they are covered in our society for that reason. It doesn't matter what they do in a primitive tribe, at another point in history, or what have you. We are not in that culture or time. Here, today, and for most of what we are familiar with, women's breasts are covered as a matter of decency. My heart tells me that it is right in the sight of God, to respect what those around me consider decent.

When you start trying to define and prove every reason, some people I think will use this as a trap.

there is nothing in scripture to support your claim. Scripture also mentions a woman's eyes, neck, cheeks, and ankles in sexual terms but we don't require that they be covered.

Please, just provide one verse that says that a woman must cover her nipples.

Problem being, I don't think there is Scripture that says we shouldn't bare our genitals either. So by that request, while the Scriptures do talk about "nakedness" they don't explicitly say you must cover this or that.

You know, I think those who wrote Scripture probably thought we were smart enough to figure this out ourselves, with the help of the Holy Spirit. And I think we are.
 
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Sammy-San

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I had stopped following this thread, Sam, because it's fruitless.


But I'd suggest forgetting about mermaids and nipples and stop trying to define things in preceise legal terms, because with taking a step back, I see that is a pit.

This is a heart issue, IMO.

We know that men view women's breast sexually, and they are covered in our society for that reason. It doesn't matter what they do in a primitive tribe, at another point in history, or what have you. We are not in that culture or time. Here, today, and for most of what we are familiar with, women's breasts are covered as a matter of decency. My heart tells me that it is right in the sight of God, to respect what those around me consider decent.

When you start trying to define and prove every reason, some people I think will use this as a trap.



Problem being, I don't think there is Scripture that says we shouldn't bare our genitals either. So by that request, while the Scriptures do talk about "nakedness" they don't explicitly say you must cover this or that.

You know, I think those who wrote Scripture probably thought we were smart enough to figure this out ourselves, with the help of the Holy Spirit. And I think we are.

What do you mean by precise legal terms?
 
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