TamaraLynne

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I know...I'm focusing on simple things :( apparently I did not get full understanding in bible school.

But bear with me...

I started a thread on the color white because of hearing about us wearing white when we go to heaven..

Now I'm going back to the garden of Eden and looking at Adam and Eve and what not knowing they were naked until they ate of the tree. Was it literally nakedness? maybe yes in the garden it was literal but it is an example for us?

I'm a bit confused...

Sometimes in life when I have sinned I did not even know I had sinned until the Holy Spirit showed me..this sin had to do with me judging another which of course is pride on my part. But my eyes were opened to this sin. Was I naked and did not know it? Or is God giving me something to cover my nakedness about salvation or to cover sin or do they go hand in hand?

Which brings me to another question...If Jesus is the tree of life.. is the Holy Spirit the tree of knoweledge of good and evil? That would put the trinity in the garden...

I'm confused :(
 

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Some say the tree of life is grace which leads to life and the law the knowledge of good and evil which leads to sin consciousness and death...or the God centered God consciousness as opposed to self centered self consciousness... His Lordship verses our self-lordship
 
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Sometimes in life when I have sinned I did not even know I had sinned until the Holy Spirit showed me..this sin had to do with me judging another which of course is pride on my part. But my eyes were opened to this sin. Was I naked and did not know it? Or is God giving me something to cover my nakedness about salvation or to cover sin or do they go hand in hand?

I think this is a good metaphorical reading of the passage.

Being naked and unaware is like being unaware of sin. Now, at the beginning of this story, Adam and Eve are naked and unaware and that's fine because there was no sin. But once they did sin and realized it (through the knowledge of good and evil, symbolized by eating the fruit), they became aware. And although we have a "sinful" nature, just like we are ignorant as small children or sometimes, as an older person, oblivious, we may be unaware of sin for some time without realizing it.

Realizing your nakedness and your need for covering is like realizing your sin and need of forgiveness.

And the clothing would be forgiveness, or salvation. I think of forgiveness as a one-per-sin thing, but salvation would be clothing that lasts for ever.
 
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I imagine the Genesis story imagines them as literally naked, but the restoration of all things at the resurrection of the dead isn't simply moving back to Eden. The restoration incorporates human history (through the incarnation of Christ into human history) and the legacy of cultural development that goes with it. We don't have bodies in heaven so I think the question of clothing is a moot point, but at the restoration of all things, I imagine that particular cultural development will be carried over.

I believe Bach and Mozart will be played in the kingdom of heaven, and I believe that Charles Dickens and T.S. Eliot will be read. And I can only hope that the works of Michelangelo and Rembrandt survive to be viewed on the other side of eternity. Heck, I believe that the works of authors, composers, and artists who will likely not be joining us- like Ludwig van Beethoven, Philip Roth, or Pablo Picasso- will be available for us to enjoy.

So I think clothing will be there as well. Indeed, even if we're comfortable with nudity in settings like spas and beaches (and I certainly hope there are spas and beaches come the end), I like clothes and their great variety. And lets not forget that however much materialist culture has made out of clothing, there's still a great art to fashion design. From the work of Italian designers Guccio Gucci, Giorgio Armani, the Prada family, and Gianna Versace to the rugged outdoor gear of Eddie Bauer, Köppen, Columbia, and Northface, clothing is itself part of humanity's cultural heritage, and I hope it is part of our heritage that we will take into eternity.
 
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from scratch

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I know...I'm focusing on simple things :( apparently I did not get full understanding in bible school.

But bear with me...

I started a thread on the color white because of hearing about us wearing white when we go to heaven..

Now I'm going back to the garden of Eden and looking at Adam and Eve and what not knowing they were naked until they ate of the tree. Was it literally nakedness? maybe yes in the garden it was literal but it is an example for us?

I'm a bit confused...

Sometimes in life when I have sinned I did not even know I had sinned until the Holy Spirit showed me..this sin had to do with me judging another which of course is pride on my part. But my eyes were opened to this sin. Was I naked and did not know it? Or is God giving me something to cover my nakedness about salvation or to cover sin or do they go hand in hand?

Which brings me to another question...If Jesus is the tree of life.. is the Holy Spirit the tree of knoweledge of good and evil? That would put the trinity in the garden...

I'm confused :(
My contention is they were covered and not naked as we think of it today.

They were covered with the glory of God not clothing like today. I believe the Christian is covered in the glory of God requiring nothing else. That clashes with society of today.

It is an interesting thing to research clothing. Adam used what we call clothing to hide. We do the same thing. Think about it.
 
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PaladinValer

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Now I'm going back to the garden of Eden and looking at Adam and Eve and what not knowing they were naked until they ate of the tree. Was it literally nakedness? maybe yes in the garden it was literal but it is an example for us?

The tree is called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Its partakers gained understanding between right and wrong.

Did they know they were naked? Probably. Did they understand its significance? Probably not. Is that significance good or evil? That, dear reader, is of course up to interpretation.

Think about it. If all things created are good, then is nakedness really evil? No. That's part of the big issue God had when Adam and Eve partook of that tree's fruit. It wasn't just because of their disobedience, but because of that disobedience, the fruit wouldn't be as it should be.

What do I mean by that? If all thing created are good, yet by our knowledge we think otherwise, are we using our knowledge correctly? No. The fruit, which is good, was used wrongly, and so it corrupted its partakers. Adam and Eve gained wisdom, but it was corrupted by their disobedience, and as such, the wisdom wasn't "true".

If anyone wishes to find this Christian theology put into a simpler, and more entertaining way, they are in luck. Modern mythology has an excellent way of putting it, and best of all, it is written in a very Christian-heavy format: St. Clive Staples Lewis' The Magician's Nephew, the first chronological book in his Chronicles of Narnia, illustrates this theology perfectly within its narrative.

Sometimes in life when I have sinned I did not even know I had sinned until the Holy Spirit showed me..this sin had to do with me judging another which of course is pride on my part. But my eyes were opened to this sin. Was I naked and did not know it? Or is God giving me something to cover my nakedness about salvation or to cover sin or do they go hand in hand?

We need God's help because our wisdom is corrupted, as shown above. We can discern on our own, but it needs help; it isn't perfect.

That's why God had to kick Adam and Eve out before they could partake of the Tree of Life. Why? Because that was Jesus.

Look for example at what St. Paul said what happened to those who partook of Holy Communion unworthily; some got sick and a few even died. Awful, but that's the result. Thus, it wasn't a punishment so much as a mercy that God took the initiative and kicked them out of Eden, for otherwise, in their corrupted wisdom, they'd have partaken damnation upon themselves.

Which brings me to another question...If Jesus is the tree of life.. is the Holy Spirit the tree of knoweledge of good and evil? That would put the trinity in the garden...

God the Holy Spirit might be thought as being theophanied in this way. I'd have to check whether this interpretation has been considered before; it certainly is thought-provoking and research-worthy.

My only potential issue with it is that God the Holy Spirit's role is that of love and purification, not just knowledge. The Tree of Life befits God the Son's role perfectly.

I would argue that the mercy of God by expelling them out of Eden shows God the Holy Spirit's involvement better. However, I would suggest researching your idea anyway and deliver your findings here.
 
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TamaraLynne

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My contention is they were covered and not naked as we think of it today.

They were covered with the glory of God not clothing like today. I believe the Christian is covered in the glory of God requiring nothing else. That clashes with society of today.

It is an interesting thing to research clothing. Adam used what we call clothing to hide. We do the same thing. Think about it.

You are on the same thought pattern as me :)
 
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TamaraLynne

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The tree is called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Its partakers gained understanding between right and wrong.

Did they know they were naked? Probably. Did they understand its significance? Probably not. Is that significance good or evil? That, dear reader, is of course up to interpretation.

Think about it. If all things created are good, then is nakedness really evil? No. That's part of the big issue God had when Adam and Eve partook of that tree's fruit. It wasn't just because of their disobedience, but because of that disobedience, the fruit wouldn't be as it should be.

What do I mean by that? If all thing created are good, yet by our knowledge we think otherwise, are we using our knowledge correctly? No. The fruit, which is good, was used wrongly, and so it corrupted its partakers. Adam and Eve gained wisdom, but it was corrupted by their disobedience, and as such, the wisdom wasn't "true".

If anyone wishes to find this Christian theology put into a simpler, and more entertaining way, they are in luck. Modern mythology has an excellent way of putting it, and best of all, it is written in a very Christian-heavy format: St. Clive Staples Lewis' The Magician's Nephew, the first chronological book in his Chronicles of Narnia, illustrates this theology perfectly within its narrative.



We need God's help because our wisdom is corrupted, as shown above. We can discern on our own, but it needs help; it isn't perfect.

That's why God had to kick Adam and Eve out before they could partake of the Tree of Life. Why? Because that was Jesus.

Look for example at what St. Paul said what happened to those who partook of Holy Communion unworthily; some got sick and a few even died. Awful, but that's the result. Thus, it wasn't a punishment so much as a mercy that God took the initiative and kicked them out of Eden, for otherwise, in their corrupted wisdom, they'd have partaken damnation upon themselves.



God the Holy Spirit might be thought as being theophanied in this way. I'd have to check whether this interpretation has been considered before; it certainly is thought-provoking and research-worthy.

My only potential issue with it is that God the Holy Spirit's role is that of love and purification, not just knowledge. The Tree of Life befits God the Son's role perfectly.

I would argue that the mercy of God by expelling them out of Eden shows God the Holy Spirit's involvement better. However, I would suggest researching your idea anyway and deliver your findings here.

Thank you so much for all that you said here. As far as the tree of knoweledge my thoughts have been up in the air...I know comparing scripture is very important and I just do not know where to begin..I have read many different interpretations of the tree of knoweledge and had my thoughts that later I realized needed to get tossed...but so far everyones threads on the tree of life being Jesus has lined up with scripture and that one I have not tossed.
 
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TamaraLynne

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I imagine the Genesis story imagines them as literally naked, but the restoration of all things at the resurrection of the dead isn't simply moving back to Eden. The restoration incorporates human history (through the incarnation of Christ into human history) and the legacy of cultural development that goes with it. We don't have bodies in heaven so I think the question of clothing is a moot point, but at the restoration of all things, I imagine that particular cultural development will be carried over.

I believe Bach and Mozart will be played in the kingdom of heaven, and I believe that Charles Dickens and T.S. Eliot will be read. And I can only hope that the works of Michelangelo and Rembrandt survive to be viewed on the other side of eternity. Heck, I believe that the works of authors, composers, and artists who will likely not be joining us- like Ludwig van Beethoven, Philip Roth, or Pablo Picasso- will be available for us to enjoy.

So I think clothing will be there as well. Indeed, even if we're comfortable with nudity in settings like spas and beaches (and I certainly hope there are spas and beaches come the end), I like clothes and their great variety. And lets not forget that however much materialist culture has made out of clothing, there's still a great art to fashion design. From the work of Italian designers Guccio Gucci, Giorgio Armani, the Prada family, and Gianna Versace to the rugged outdoor gear of Eddie Bauer, Köppen, Columbia, and Northface, clothing is itself part of humanity's cultural heritage, and I hope it is part of our heritage that we will take into eternity.

I very much enjoyed your thoughts :)
 
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TamaraLynne

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I think this is a good metaphorical reading of the passage.

Being naked and unaware is like being unaware of sin. Now, at the beginning of this story, Adam and Eve are naked and unaware and that's fine because there was no sin. But once they did sin and realized it (through the knowledge of good and evil, symbolized by eating the fruit), they became aware. And although we have a "sinful" nature, just like we are ignorant as small children or sometimes, as an older person, oblivious, we may be unaware of sin for some time without realizing it.

Realizing your nakedness and your need for covering is like realizing your sin and need of forgiveness.

And the clothing would be forgiveness, or salvation. I think of forgiveness as a one-per-sin thing, but salvation would be clothing that lasts for ever.

Thank you for being a part of this thread )))hug((( it was almost as if you were in the room with me doing a bible study together...I'm sorry I can't answer every question you asked....because alot of what I know was discussed on other threads...I would not have explained things very well.
 
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There are some who have maintained that their "nakedness" was the loss of God's glory shining through them, and that by sinning they ripped themselves away from union with God, resulting in their existence being much more simply "physical" (along with the rest of creation). Those same people would maintain that the "halo" that we see in our iconography around Christ and His saints is that glory that we lost when we sinned, and that glory that was lost was what Adam and Eve were trying to compensate for when they tried to clothe themselves. And when God took their clothing of leaves and gave them clothing made from animal skins, He was foreshadowing that it is by Christ's sacrifice that we regain that original "clothing".
 
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There are some who have maintained that their "nakedness" was the loss of God's glory shining through them, and that by sinning they ripped themselves away from union with God, resulting in their existence being much more simply "physical" (along with the rest of creation). Those same people would maintain that the "halo" that we see in our iconography around Christ and His saints is that glory that we lost when we sinned, and that glory that was lost was what Adam and Eve were trying to compensate for when they tried to clothe themselves. And when God took their clothing of leaves and gave them clothing made from animal skins, He was foreshadowing that it is by Christ's sacrifice that we regain that original "clothing".

:holy: :hug:
 
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