MYSTERY SOLVED
- Thread starter WailingWall
- Start date
Brian Mcnamee
Well-Known Member
Hi the trumpet was used for calling out directions say advance was a series of notes then they denoted the 7 notes to signal advance. There would be a final trumpet blast to this specific sequence. In the 7 trumpets of Rev we see an angel blasting the notes one by one. The final trump triggers the next set of judgments. This is the final trump in a series of 7 blown all by angles. In 1 Cor 15 I point you to 1 Thes 4 which is speaking of the same event and note the LORD himself is descending and has the trumpet of God. This is not a trumpet blown by an angel in the series of 7 mentioned in Revelation.
This trump of God could be viewed as pre trib.
Upvote
0
- Jul 21, 2016
- 4,636
- 2,875
- 72
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Melkite Catholic
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- US-Others
Upvote
0
Oldmantook
Well-Known Member
What you say in ch. 19 is true however the pertinent question is WHEN does the church meet Jesus and celebrate the marriage supper of the lamb. The overall context of ch.19 is at the end of the great tribulation right before Jesus returns to conquer his enemies on earth so it would appear that the church is raptured at the end of the great tribulation; not before it.
Upvote
0
Revealing Times
Well-Known Member
1 – Selection of the Bride
Jewish Wedding - The Son chooses the Bride – the Father makes the arrangements
Church - John 15:16 – “You did not choose Me, but I chose you . . .”
2 – The Bride Price established
Jewish Wedding - The father of the bride must be reimbursed for the loss of his daughter.
Church - I Corinthians 6:20 - “For you were bought with a price.” The Bride price was paid when Jesus died on the Cross.
3 – The Betrothal
Jewish Wedding - More than mere “engagement”, it was a permanent arrangement. Recall the story of Joseph and Mary.
Church – The attachment of the Church to the Lord is also permanent, and forever. “This is the bread which came down from heaven--not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.” (John 6:58) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:28)
4 – The Marriage Contract
Jewish Wedding – A written agreement committing each party to the marriage.
Church - The entire Holy Bible is our written agreement containing the promises of God. Jesus said, “If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;” (John 8:31)
5 – The Bride must consent
Jewish Wedding – This is not entirely an arranged marriage; the bride must agree.
Church – “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;” (Mark 16:16) “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” (Romans 10:9)
6 – The Bridal Gift and the Cup of the Covenant
Jewish Wedding – A glass of wine is taken upon the signing of the contract.
Church – Each time we gather around the Lord’s Table, we remember the “contract.” “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave [it] to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28)
Jewish Wedding – The Bride is given a gift by the groom.
Church - The Holy Spirit is given by Jesus –– “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38) This, of course, occurred on the Day of Pentecost.
7 – The Ceremonial Purification of the Bride
Jewish Wedding - The next step for the Bride after she is betrothed is a ceremonial cleansing. In Biblical times the Bride would use a Mikvah, which was pool of water, in which she would immerse herself.
Church - Acts 2:41 – “Then those who gladly received his word were baptized (immersed); and that day about three thousand souls were added [to them].”
The Church is an insertion in the Lord's Plan. Israel was the original bride. I believe that the Lord Jesus will come for His bride, the Church, in a separate event (the Rapture) from the Lord's return for His bride, Israel.
8 – The Groom would prepare a room for the Bride in his father’s house
Church - John 14:3 – “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself.”
The father of the groom determines when the room is ready. The groom does not determine the time of the wedding. “But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:36)
9 – The Bride is consecrated and set apart
Church - First Peter 2:9 – “But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people.”
10 – The Groom returns with a shout, “Behold, the bridegroom comes!”
Church - First Thessalonians 4:16 – “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.”
Let me insert an additional hope at this point. When the Lord Jesus comes for His Bride, the Church, we will not be totally surprised. Although the Jewish bride did not know the day or the hour, she was expectant. The Apostle Paul in speaking of “that Day” said, “But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day.” (First Thessalonians 5:4-5) Today, many in the Church are expectant and will not be totally surprised.
11 – The Bride and Groom go to the wedding chamber.
Church – This period when the Bride and Groom spend time together seems to show that the Bride of Jesus will be with Him in Heaven. This appears to indicate a pre-Tribulation gathering of the Church, and is described in Isaiah 26:20; “Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.” The marriage was consummated in the wedding chamber. The Bride and Groom stayed in that wedding chamber for seven days. (Seven years)
12 – The Marriage Supper
Church – “‘Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.’ And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, ‘Write: Blessed [are] those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” (The Revelation 19:7-9)
After the traditional Jewish Wedding the Bride and Groom lived together. This fits the picture of the Lord living, or tabernacling, with His people in the Kingdom Age and forever!
In my opinion, the Feast of Pentecost is still being fulfilled and will be completed when the Lord Jesus comes for His bride.
I believe that in the remaining steps of the Jewish Wedding process, the steps will be fulfilled for Israel in a separate manner.
The Marriage of the Bride to the Lamb is an integral part of the New Testament throughout. We just have to put it together Marilyn C. as we do all of the bible.
Rev. 19:7-9 "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready." It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb '" And he said to me, "These are true words of God."
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Revealing Times
Well-Known Member
Now lets figure out why we must shed our flesh bodies if we are just going to meet the Lamb Jesus in the air and return for Armageddon like some say. It would make zero sense, so we are going to heaven, and you seem to agree that Rev. ch. 19 says we are in heaven. But you seem to think Rev. chapter 19 is at the end of the tribulation because its at the end of the book of Revelation.
BUT WHY WOULD YOU THINK THIS?
The book of Revelation is not in order, Rev. ch. 19 runs the full seven years of the tribulation or Jacobs Troubles. Whereas Rev. ch. 7 starts in the middle of the week (tribulation/Jacobs Troubles). Read it like this:
1. Rev. chapters 1-3 are the Churches in Asia Minor.
Rev. 19 is the Church in Heaven for he Full Seven years, the reason its towards the end of the book is Jesus comes back at the end of the Seven Years. Since it runs the full Seven Years you had to place it at the beginning or ending. Since Jesus married the Church it should be obvious that as soon as the Church goes to heaven they would Marry the Lamb firstly.
Rev. chapters 4, 5, 7 and..............19 is the Church in Heaven, in ch. 7 the Church already has their White Robes so they have already married the Lamb by this time, so Rev. ch. 19 is the Church in Heaven the full Seven years, while chapters 4, 5 and 7 are just snapshots in time.
Rev. chapters 6, 8, 9, 11, 15 and 16 is the Seals, Trumpets and Vials in PERFECT ORDER !!
Rev. chapters 10, 12, 13, 14, 17 and 18 are VISIONS that fill in the blanks so to speak Chapters 12, 13, 17 and 18 all start during Rev. chapter 6 believe it or not. Chapters 17 and 18 are not real time events. In Rev. ch. 16 the Angel says after Armageddon, IT IS DONE !! There is no Rev. chapters 17 and 18 as per real time events.
Rev. 17 starts during ch. 6 and ends during ch. 6. Its all False Religion being destroyed, the Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings DESTROY the Harlot. That will happen when the Anti-Christ first comes to power as the BEAST. He will destroy ALL RELIGION, thus ALL FALSE RELIGION. (In Rev. ch. 6)
Rev. 18 is Babylon (World Governance) being his by the Seals, Trumpet and Vial Plagues. Ur starts in Rev. chapter 6 and ends in Rev. ch. 16, at the Seventh of course. Since the Seventh Vial sees Jesus and the Church come back from Heaven to defeat the Beast and his Minions, that means the Church has to be Raptured first.
Ponder these things and get back with me on it................In Christ............Love.
Upvote
0
Brian Mcnamee
Well-Known Member
I like the typology in the life of Jacob as he labored 7 years for the love of his life and in the morning behold it was Leah. He got he unintended bride 1st and had to labor 7 more years for Rachael. you cant hang doctrine on that but its a nice picture.
Upvote
0
Oldmantook
Well-Known Member
No where in ch.19 does it state either explicitly or implicitly that the church is in heaven for a full seven years. You are inserting your claim into the text that is absent from the text itself. Jesus' Second Coming is indeed at the end of the great tribulation but nothing in ch.19 specifies that the church has already been in heaven for 7 years. Instead it only states that the marriage supper of the lamb takes place at that time. Ch.19 begins with the statement, After these things.... After what things? Answer is after the fall of Babylon described in ch.18. The marriage supper of the lamb takes place after the fall of Babylon which occurs at the end of the 7 years. I assume however that you believe the marriage supper of the lamb occurs when the church is raptured into heaven before the 7 years when Jesus stated that he will come as a thief correct?
Upvote
0
- Dec 26, 2013
- 4,818
- 598
- Country
- Australia
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Hi RT,
Yes I realise you wrote all that before, however.....I do not see any scripture that specifically says the Body of Christ is the bride. No scripture in all of God`s word. You have started from an assumption and progressed from there to the Jewish wedding etc. Interesting, but not related to the Body of Christ.
regards, Marilyn.
Upvote
0
seventysevens
Well-Known Member
Re 19
Marriage of the Lamb
7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” 8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
9 Then he *said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he *said to me, “These are true words of God.”
Rv 21:9
9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
2 Corn
2 For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.
Eph 5:24
24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
The context in these scripture verses are the born-again believers betrothed unto Christ Jesus
Marriage of the Lamb
7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” 8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
9 Then he *said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he *said to me, “These are true words of God.”
Rv 21:9
9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
2 Corn
2 For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.
Eph 5:24
24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
The context in these scripture verses are the born-again believers betrothed unto Christ Jesus
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Revealing Times
Well-Known Member
The Rapture happens before Jacobs Troubles begin. The Final week of the Prophecy of Jeremiah which was explained by Gabriel unto Daniel thus its called Daniels 70 Week Decree, then comes to pass. We have gone through the 7 x 7 and the 62 x 7 which means there is ONE WEEK LEFT. We are in the Church age, God sees Israel as Dead Men's Bones per Ezekiel's Valley of Dry Bones prophecy. We are in the Church Age/Pentecost/Harvest.
And you are off as per the Marriage unto the Lamb, the scriptures specifically say the Marriage unto the Church happens in Heaven. Then we return to earth to defeat the Anti-Christ and his minions, the Marriage Supper is the Carnage at Armageddon, or do you no get that? Babylon is the Nations that Come against God/Israel at Armageddon. There is no Revelation chapter 17 or 18 in real time. Its just a fact. Revelation ends with Rev. ch. 16 as per happenings on earth under Satan, the Seventh Vial is Jesus destroying the Statue (Babylon/Governance by Satan of the Earth). The Angel says IT IS DONE !!
The Marriage happens in Heaven, the Marriage Supper is the carnage (Matthew 24:28 carcass) of the dead. Its a Metaphor of course. The Eagles will be where the carcass is at.
As per knowing/understanding the time-line of the Rapture, that's on you to understand, I can only break it down. Look at Rev. ch. 7, the Church already has their White Robes at the Middle of the Week. Thus Rev. 19 is a picture of them in Heaven before the Middle of the Week (There was MUCH PEOPLE in Heaven, then the Marry the Lamb, then they get their White Robes.) In Rev. 7 they already have their White Robes so Rev. 19 happens before Rev. 7, its a fact.
Since the Church is Raptured and Israel has one week left in the 70 week prophecy it doesn't take much effort to figure the time-line out. Paul stated the Jews would remain BLINDED IN PART until the time of he Gentiles were come full. ISRAEL HAS A WEEK LEFT !!! (Church is in Heaven, Jews are protected in the Wilderness for 1260 days)
The Jewish Bride goes to the Marriage Chambers with her Groom for 7 Days (7 Years). Has God got to knock us in the head with it? God gives the church these things in riddles and parables so the world hearing will not hear and seeing will not see. (Jesus said that)
We are supposed to be able to see these things. So I am interjecting FACTS as given by God, all we have to do is put all the clues together. We can't sit around and repeat men's claims, God will show us the deep truths if we search them out.
Upvote
0
Oldmantook
Well-Known Member
I agree that we should understand Scripture by the facts as given by God. Jesus gave us the fact of when he will rapture the church when he returns as a thief. I'm sure you agree that the rapture occurs when Jesus returns as a thief, correct? So the obvious question is when does Jesus come as a thief?
“Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.” Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon. Rev 16:15-16
The fact is Jesus himself stated that he will come as a thief right before the battle of Armageddon which is after the 7 years of tribulation - not before. Jesus has already shown us the fact of when he will return. The question is do you believe him?
Upvote
0
- Mar 16, 2004
- 22,024
- 7,364
- 60
- Faith
- Calvinist
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Democrat
The battle of armaggedon is one of the latter vials of wrath late in the tribulation. Israel repeats half way through and apparently is raptured before the wrath of the great tribulation.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Revealing Times
Well-Known Member
Jesus is coming as a thief which means he will come when no one expects it, late at night in the Darkness, and we are not children of the dark but children of the light. At the Second Coming everyone will know and understand when Jesus is coming, it will be just after the Sixth Vial where all the nations are gathered together at Armageddon. The Vials will come is quick staccato like fashion, boom, boom, boom, no one will be surprised to see Jesus.
John used many Old Testament analogies in Revelation, here he used something Jesus spoke as an analogy, I am not 100 percent sure John was ever given the Rapture understanding in full, that was given unto Paul, the disciple unto the Gentiles. Just because John used it as an analogy here doesn't mean this is the Rapture, which isn't really what the "Thief in the Night" parable was about anyway it was about the coming Day of the Lord, which is a 3.5 Year period of God's Wrath.
The Church comes back with Jesus in Rev. 19 to defeat the Anti-Christ/Beast at Armageddon yet you are insisting that the Armageddon sequence is the Rapture, which of course makes NO SENSE AT ALL.
If you read Paul's writing on this subject it becomes very clear what it means. It is speaking about the Day of the Lord coming upon the Wicked like a thief in the night, not the Seventh Vial, one the Day of the Lord starts the 21 Judgments will be easy to countdown.
1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. {{So to start with thus proves your understanding is off as per the timing of events, the Day of the Lord is Gods Wrath and it starts in Rev. chapter 6. }}
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction (Anti-Christs FALSE PEACE) cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye (Church), brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. {{The Church is IN THE LIGHT thus we will not go through the Tribulation period of Gods Wrath, we are CHILDREN OF THE LIGHT !! }}
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. {{We will not god through this period of TROUBLES !! }}
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. {Let us stay WOKE so that we do not fall away Christ Jesus, lest we be left behind in the DARKNESS}
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
So the whole THIEF IN THE NIGHT Parable is about Jesus' wrath coming upon mankind, Paul is warning us to STAY IN THE DAY (In Christ Jesus) so that we will not be left behind to go through Gods Wrath !!
What I take from the passage is this is the Wrath of God being poured out and John/Jesus reminds the brethren that they need to keep themselves in the Light of Christ Jesus else they will be caught up in this Wrath of God. You seem to assume its the Rapture, even though it 100 percent clear the Church returns from Heaven with Jesus Christ on White Horses BEFORE Armageddon.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
