theeyesoftammyfaye said:i'm sorry to nitpick but this DRIVES ME NUTS. buddha was a human, just like you and i. and this man is not a religion...however his philosophy and teaching are. he's not a deity. actually you ought to read a bit about buddhism, its a beautiful religion (you might even pick up a few pointers on how to live day to day!)
With your principle in general, I agree -- people need to take the responsibility to live with the consequences of their actions. However, what I was objecting to was the idea that someone's choice to live in a manner that someone else considers sinful gives the someone else the right to restrict the first person's rights or privileges, which seemed to be what you were implying in the post that started this exchange.jsn112 said:Maybe I should re-phrase or maybe not. But I think he got the point to what I was trying to say. If you decide to jump off the cliff, God is not going to take away the consequences from your decision to jump off the cliff. And hence, when you hit the ground, you either die, broke your bones, or internal bleeding, etc. It's a matter cause and consequences.
BUDDHA was a man.jsn112 said:I know all about Budhism. My grandmother was a budhist. If she wasn't a woman, she would be a monk. 80% of my family and relatives are budhist. I know more about budhist history and how it became a religion than I care for. So yeah, you can say I know a little about it.
If you don't think Budhism is a religion, then you are fooling yourself. It's a religion just like Toaism, Shintoism, etc. Budha (Siddhartha) means the enlightened one. If you believe in Jesus, you don't dable into Budhism because it teaches reincarnation, Budhisatvas, nervana, etc.
Picky detail, but socialism is merely the idea of state ownership of the means of production, generally coupled with a program for state responsibility for the needs of the individual (welfarism, which can be either capitalist or socialist) and with consequent high tax levels to support this. There were millions of active socialists before Marx ever began his economic theorizing. And while I am emphatically against socialism in general (specific elements -- the "natural monopolies" -- I can accept) and strongly against communism and its statist control of the individual, I do have to object to both your attribution of socialism and of the Russian/Chinese/Cuban dictatorships to Marx. Marx was an economic/social theorist with bizarre ideas. Lenin and Stalin took the idea and turned it into a vehicle to come to power and control their country -- Mao modified the idea for an impoverished, overpopulated largely agrarian country (at the time he was conducting the Chinese Civil War, that is). Castro was merely a consummate con artist playing Russia against America -- many leading anti-Communist Americans during the 50s believed him to be a Cuban patriot trying to overthrow the corrupt Batista dictatorship, which is what he portrayed himself as -- I remember those days, and the attitudes people had about him.jsn112 said:Karl Marx came up with socialism. The next stage would communism. Then if you will, utopia. Lenin, Stalin, Castro, etc. have put it to their use. Do you know the doctrine of communism?
theeyesoftammyfaye said:BUDDHA was a man.
BUDDHISM is a religion.
there is a difference. and for someone who has 80% of their family as buddhists, you figured they would have told you how to spell "buddha" by now. and nirvana . and bodhisattvas.
Matt Never Existed said:I'm sorry, Maybe this is off topic, but so is everything else right here, so meh.
Whats bothering me is that people say that Christians 'can't be of the world because the world will hate the truth'. Now, if we all look at the world right now, atleast MY world, here in america, i think that Christians have it fricken easy. Show me where, in america, does the world hate christians? Show me where, in america, they are being persecuted and discriminated (spelling?) against?
No, I don't think anyone can because American Christians are so laid-back and lazy that it makes christians outside of the US sick. Granted, there are a handful of people here who I can honestly say are walking with the lord. But lets get things straight here. No one is living 'outside' the world here. You just say 'we're set apart. turn to God and be forgiven' and then you go and love on teh world. Christians here comprimise in some areas in their life and turn a blind eye to it, because if they say "I fail here', that would make them like everyone else. Which is a problem for most people, because they seem to think as Christianity as an 'elite club' of some kind, like being a christian makes them better than everyone else. WHen in reality, it doesn't. It SHOULD show the world that you struggle with (insert sin here). You should WEAR it on your sleave, showing the world that you sin. Because then, people will say "How can they just talk about being addicted to inappropriate content like that?" or whatever your sin is. Then you can say "It doesn't matter. I'm forgiven by God and I'm getting better. Soon, I won't even have a problem with it". THATS a christian. And when teh world says "You're crazy'", you should just smile, nod, and say "Yep, thats me."
Matt Never Existed said:I'm sorry, Maybe this is off topic, but so is everything else right here, so meh.
Whats bothering me is that people say that Christians 'can't be of the world because the world will hate the truth'. Now, if we all look at the world right now, atleast MY world, here in america, i think that Christians have it fricken easy. Show me where, in america, does the world hate christians? Show me where, in america, they are being persecuted and discriminated (spelling?) against?
No, I don't think anyone can because American Christians are so laid-back and lazy that it makes christians outside of the US sick. Granted, there are a handful of people here who I can honestly say are walking with the lord. But lets get things straight here. No one is living 'outside' the world here. You just say 'we're set apart. turn to God and be forgiven' and then you go and love on teh world. Christians here comprimise in some areas in their life and turn a blind eye to it, because if they say "I fail here', that would make them like everyone else. Which is a problem for most people, because they seem to think as Christianity as an 'elite club' of some kind, like being a christian makes them better than everyone else. WHen in reality, it doesn't. It SHOULD show the world that you struggle with (insert sin here). You should WEAR it on your sleave, showing the world that you sin. Because then, people will say "How can they just talk about being addicted to inappropriate content like that?" or whatever your sin is. Then you can say "It doesn't matter. I'm forgiven by God and I'm getting better. Soon, I won't even have a problem with it". THATS a christian. And when teh world says "You're crazy'", you should just smile, nod, and say "Yep, thats me."
Paul the Apostle said:For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the cleverness of the clever I will thwart."
20: Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
21: For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.
22: For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,
23: but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,
24: but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25: For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. (I Corinthians 1:19-25)
Robert43 said:What do you have to say about this subject?
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/004/11.23.html
Thanks, Robert.
Jacey said:The ACLU does not attack christianity, that is a bald-faced lie.
Whoever said Europe had to respect Jesus?
Polycarp1 said:JSN, I am so sick of ACLU-bashing that it's getting annoying.
Quite simply, the ACLU stands for the protection of the civil liberties of American citizens as guaranteed by the Constitution, and in particular those specified in the First Amendment.
The only cases in which they are "anti-Christian" is when a Christian individual or group in a position of legal power somewhere decides to take it upon themselves to legislate something that meets the precedent-based definition of "an establishment of religion" or something that impairs "the free exercise of religion."
Just because the majority of citizens in a town are Christians who believe in the importance of the Ten Commandments does not make it legal to buy and erect a plaque bearing them in the public square, because it's spending the tax dollars raised from and utilizing the land owned in common by all the citizens of that town, including a minority who do not believe in the Ten Commandments. Just because the school board are all Christians does not mean that they can compel or coerce recital of oaths or prayers they believe to be true by all schoolchildren, who have the same freedom of religion relative to any government body, including the school board, as everyone else. (What their parents and churches may expect of them as regards practicing religion is not governed by the First and Fourteenth Amendments -- what the government can expect of them is.)
There have been occasions when the "separation of church and state" doctrine is misunderstood by civil servants to mean that no voluntary exercise of religion is permissible in the public schools, or by government employees. And in such occasions the ACLU has stood by the Christians who were being denied the free exercise of their religion by some regulation. There is a Supreme Court case in which a secularist school board on Long Island refused to rent a school auditorium to a local church on the same terms and conditions that it rented it to groups like Little Theater and the local American Legion, believing that the Establishment Clause prohibited them from allowing the church to use it. This was argued on "free exercise" grounds with the ACLU backing the church, and they won the case.
The ACLU is not against Christianity. It's against Christians forcing others to practice our beliefs, or coercing them to do so. And it would equally be against a majority of non-Christians doing likewise, if one should exist. (There is one case, left in the lower courts, regarding a village founded by Hasidim Jews in the Catskills, where Torah-based local regulations were found to be violative of First Amendment rights.)
mpshiel said:Even implying that Europe is becoming Godless is offensive and ignorant.
Originally posted by : jsn112
You pretend love but compare me to a mass murderer. I stand by my original perception that your love is less than sincere.
Not at all. No condition. You professed yourself as gay but I still love you. Really. But that doesn't mean that I like what you do. I have said many times that I love the killer, Jeffrey Dalmer. But that doesn't mean I like his killings.
Try looking the word up.I asked this before, but, who is Thor? Or what is Thor? Is he your mate?
Jesus love you as a person. What proof do you want from Him? He die for you and me while we were STILL sinners, didn't He?
Once again you are confusing the objective person of the deity you choose to worship with your personal perceptions of your religions text. Your basis for advocating this discrimination is your own personal prejudices that you then attempt to justify with your bible.If you read my post before, I said, in some way, I agree with what Polycarp said. But on the "basis" of GOD, I would rather have heterosexual family adopt children than homosexual families. The Bible is against homosexual relationships and therefore would not have the appropriate Biblical teaching in that family. If appropriate teaching is applied in the homosexual families, then they would be condemning themselves because they know and understand the Truth. Why can't you understand that logic?
You are the one doing the persecuting not your deity.You are right in that I am not being persecuted the way you are. Jesus will remove your sins but would not remove the consequences. Your persecution is the consequences. Just like a murderer receiving his due consequences at either death or life long sentences.
And if you are Muslim than you know Christianity is a false religion.Name calling is not going to do you any good with me. Did I ever say muslims are dirt? However, if you are a Christian, you should know Islam is a false religion just like Budha.
And here's news for you. No where in the constitution it says SEPERATION of church and state. That's the court's misinterpretation.
Putting those commandments on the wall of the Alabama Supreme Court was an endorsement of one particular religion to the exclusion of all other religions. And if you take the time to read the constitution you will find that this governmental endorsement of one religion at the expense of other religions is exactly what the separation of church and state prohibits.It say Congress shall not make law establishing religion. Which is totally different than SEPARATION. Putting a 10 commandments on the wall of court is NOT making a law. Passing a Bill is making a law. Supreme Court Judges say a prayer to God every morning for crying out loud.
I am sure that Hades, like Thor, has better things to do.Europe hasn't achieved Godless state yet. Also, please don't say that churches and Christianity will never exist in Europe again because I didn't say that. Jesus said to Peter that on this rock He will establish His church and Hades will not overcome it. That's true around the world. But compare to the US, they need a lot of work.
Volos said:You pretend love but compare me to a mass murderer. I stand by my original perception that your “love” is less than sincere.
Try looking the word up.
Thor is the Germanic and Scandinavian God of the sky, storms, thunder and by extension to his marriage to the Goddess of agriculture the God of fertility. Thursday is named after him.
Considering the very concept of sin is foreign to my religion. The concepts of sin as the breaking of authoritarian moral codes and SIN as in the conceptual choosing to live separate from the Divine. Are impossibilities in the Pagan worldview and as such sin is a meaningless concept. Aside from that, I have never understood why your Deity, who ti is often claimed is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent NEEDED to go through the whole incarnation and “die for sins” thing. If your deity truly were omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent then he could have taken care of the whole sin thing without going through the whole physical incarnation bit. A truly omnipotent deity could do so and an omnibenovelant deity would not put his followers through the several thousand years of not having this grace/saving already in place.
Once again you are confusing the objective person of the deity you choose to worship with your personal perceptions of your religions text. Your basis for advocating this discrimination is your own personal prejudices that you then attempt to justify with your bible.
Apparently you believe that only your personal beliefs are “appropriate teachings” and anyone who does not agree with what you demand they believe is not safe to allow around children.
You are the one doing the persecuting not your deity.[/font][/size]
And once again you compare homosexuality to murder. You continue to do this yet expect me to believe you actually “love me” as a person.
And if you are Muslim than you know Christianity is a “false” religion.
How disheartening that for over two hundred years the justices of the Supreme Court of the United States just didn’t know this.
The phrase “right to a fair trial” also does not appear in the constitution but it is understood to actually be part of the constitution.
You may be interested to know that the phrase "a wall of separation between church and state," was coined by President Thomas Jefferson. The Supreme Court, and lower courts, have used Jefferson's phrase repeatedly in major decisions upholding neutrality in matters of religion. The exact words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution; neither do "separation of powers," "interstate commerce," "right to privacy," and other phrases describing well-established constitutional principles.
The first justices of the Supreme court were all men who had participated in the writing of the constitution. This first Supreme court made use of Jefferson’s phrase “separation of Church and state” and one would think that these framers of the constitution actually did know what was in the constitution.
Putting those commandments on the wall of the Alabama Supreme Court was an endorsement of one particular religion to the exclusion of all other religions. And if you take the time to read the constitution you will find that this governmental endorsement of one religion at the expense of other religions is exactly what the separation of church and state prohibits.
Who is 'perverting the Truth'? a group that stands up for the rights of people in this country, no matter if their christian/athiest/agnostic/other? How is helping people perverting the message of "love your brother as yourself"? Just becuase they help ALL people, even the ones that the Fundie's have their forces set againt, doesn't make them bad. It actually, in my eyes, makes them amazingly wonderful and brave.jsn112 said:When mention of persecution, it could mean denying and/or perverting the Truth (scriptures) and not just killing the body. Look at the ACLU. They attack Christianity like no other here in America. And activist judges and politicians.
Which, among the countless faiths out there, is the one that is almost 'dead'? None. You still have your churches, your bible studies and whatnot. But nope, people aren't happy. They want to force others out of their own personal beliefs and conform to christianity. And if they won't do that the easy way, well that means that the Fundies have to try to change the LAWS to do it for them.jsn112 said:One of the great things about America is that there are still some trying to fight to keep the faith alive.
You live in Europe, right? Because, those are some major things to say about a country that has had a history that has almost always had the church in it at some point in time.jsn112 said:In Europe, churches are becoming museum pieces. And they don't hold Jesus in very high esteem at all. However, at this rate, America could become another Europe.
Its kinda stuck up to say that the only reason the United States is as great as it is not is because of God. We got this way on the backs of our forefathers. But, I do agree on one thing. We are the next Babylon. Because people feel the need to try to twist scripture to justify their own hatred, God is going to rain his Judgement down and destroy them all. I only hope he spares the lives of those who are truely living according to his son's words, "love God with all your heart" and "love your neighbor as yourself".jsn112 said:What will we say then? God will probably remove the hedge around this country. Prosperity is not an accident. Some say that we are the next Babylon. And in the book of Revelation, it describes how great the fall of Babylon.