My TQ Challenge

[Dave-W]

So you are saying that God can't make us all Christians without robbing us of our freedom of choice?

Correct. But perhaps "won't" is closer than "can't."

So why doesn't he just snap his fingers and make us all Christian in a way that does NOT violate our freedom of choice? Remember, you can't say that it's logically impossible, because you've already said that's not an issue for God.

He probably could. As it is he works all of our free choices into His master plan. (knowing what those choices are beforehand) But He does not just make us all christians.

And that is His choice.

 

[Dave-W]

So you just jump into a conversation that you weren't part of and answer a question for someone else?
That's rather rude, don't you think?

Since he is the OP, he has the right to do that.
It is his thread.

 

[AV1611VET]

Says the guy whose posts are mostly just adding 1 to a number...

I'm glad you brought that up.

Here are the rules for the counting threads:

{"just a note to clarify some matters...

counting threads are allowed here in this forum as they are a handy way for members to locate posts to exchange reps. So yes, threads such as "Tweety Bird's Counting Thread" or "Counting with the Lone Ranger" are allowed.

what is NOT allowed is to imply that the threads exclude any/every other member except the OP from posting by including words or directions in the title or the OP such as 'Counting for sarah only', or ' Counting just for suzi q'.

If any member desires a thread where they will be the only poster, then they need to begin a private member's club with themselves as the only member.

to do that, click on the Member's Cp and go down to the networking section. click on "social groups", then scroll down to the bottom of the page where it says "create a new group" and click there.}

 

[AV1611VET]

Since he is the OP, he has the right to do that.
It is his thread.

Thank you, Dave!

 

[Kylie]

Correct. But perhaps "won't" is closer than "can't."

So why won't he?

He probably could. As it is he works all of our free choices into His master plan. (knowing what those choices are beforehand) But He does not just make us all christians.

And that is His choice.

Of course, since he is not bound by logic, God could make us all Christians in a way that does not violate our free will without choosing to do it - even while choosing NOT to do it.

Such things are easily possible when logic isn't involved.

 

[Kylie]

Since he is the OP, he has the right to do that.
It is his thread.

I must have missed that bit where it says, "The OP has the right to answer a question for anyone else. If one user asks for the opinion of another user who is not the OP, then the OP can answer the question, and the OP's answer will thereafter be classified as the opinion of the user who was asked the question."

 

[AV1611VET]

I must have missed that bit where it says, "The OP has the right to answer a question for anyone else. If one user asks for the opinion of another user who is not the OP, then the OP can answer the question, and the OP's answer will thereafter be classified as the opinion of the user who was asked the question."

When you get your own website, then you can make your own rules.

Until then ...

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Wow, it seems you have trouble understanding the flow of a discussion. I asked Dave a question. I don't care if other people have answered that question or not, I specifically wanted to hear DAVE'S views on it.

And I asked Dave why God doesn't just snap his fingers and make everyone a Christian. I can't see what relevance abortion has on the topic. Your post honestly came across as an incoherent rant.

Avoid questions asked of you much????

So you agree then that I have the right to force people not to have abortions?????


Come on, answer the question and you'll perhaps see why it is relevant.....

 

[Kylie]

Avoid questions asked of you much????

So you agree then that I have the right to force people not to have abortions?????


Come on, answer the question and you'll perhaps see why it is relevant.....

Are you an omnipotent being that is not bound by logic? No? Then it's nowhere near the same thing, is it? Is this the limit of your argument?

 

[Kylie]

Yes ... I answered it for someone else ... you.

And, of course, all the readers.

You gave me the opinion of someone whose opinion I don't care about - your opinion. Since I don't care about your opinion and you gave me your unwanted opinion, what do you think I'm going to do with it?

Helpful, actually.

Only a moron would think that giving an answer they are unqualified to give is helpful.

When you're here as long as I have been, you'll come to realize that when a person asks a question, it's FIRST COME FIRST SERVE on getting an answer.

Even if you ask a specific person a specific question.

Wow, that's incredibly rude.

 

[AV1611VET]

You gave me the opinion of someone whose opinion I don't care about - your opinion.

Whose opinion should I have given you?

 

[Kylie]

Whose opinion should I have given you?

Well, considering that the only opinion you are qualified to give is your own, and since I didn't ask you, you shouldn't have given me ANYONE'S opinion.

 

[quatona]

1. If God created an apple ex nihilo, what evidence would you give your friend He did this?

I´d tell him that I have no evidence because there can´t be evidence for creatio ex nihilo - so the absence of evidence for it is evidence for it.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Are you an omnipotent being that is not bound by logic? No? Then it's nowhere near the same thing, is it? Is this the limit of your argument?

Not bound by logic? Everything you see around you is evidence of logic to those natural laws that follow logic so well we can write mathematical equations that explain those forces. It is precisely because I "use logic" and you refuse to, that you won't answer the question..... Because logic will defeat you and so you avoid the question.....

So you agree then that I have the right to force people not to have abortions?????

A simple yes or no will suffice......

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I´d tell him that I have no evidence because there can´t be evidence for creatio ex nihilo - so the absence of evidence for it is evidence for it.

I would simply ask them if they have ever seen an apple produce anything naturally other than an apple?

Or have they observed natural forces create apples out of molecules lying around?

Then ask them what makes them believe something even as complex as an apple can form by natural processes when they have never once in the entire history of observation, observed any such thing?

So in the end, they too rely on that very absence of evidence. The difference being we admit the only logical answer is creation.

And to AV I have to say the apple was not created ex nihilo, but from seed created from the ground, just as everything was.....

 

[quatona]

I would simply ask them if they have ever seen an apple produce anything naturally other than an apple?

Yeah, asking that question (in order to give evidence) is even more stupid than my approach.

Or have they observed natural forces create apples out of molecules lying around?

I have observed how apples come about. They grow on trees.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Yeah, asking that question (in order to give evidence) is even more stupid than my approach.

Since you want to go the ad-hominem route..... what was stupid was not being able to comprehend that making them understand apples can only come from pre-existing apples and that evolutionists also rely on absent evidence - since none have been observed to come from any other source, leads to the support of your answer.


People are plain stupid and can't even see when someone supports their reasoning, so scared of they of being objected too they see it in every post....

 

[AV1611VET]

I´d tell him that I have no evidence because there can´t be evidence for creatio ex nihilo -

And we have a winner, folks!

Good job!

 

[Kylie]

I´d tell him that I have no evidence because there can´t be evidence for creatio ex nihilo - so the absence of evidence for it is evidence for it.

Huh? What in the world does this mean?

I can turn into an eagle and soar majestically above the clouds. But I can only transform when no one is looking. What's that you say? You want evidence for this claim? Well, to be honest, I have no evidence because there can't be evidence for women turning into eagles - so the absence of evidence for it is evidence for it.

I now conclude you are convinced that I can turn into an eagle.

 

[Kylie]

Not bound by logic? Everything you see around you is evidence of logic to those natural laws that follow logic so well we can write mathematical equations that explain those forces. It is precisely because I "use logic" and you refuse to, that you won't answer the question..... Because logic will defeat you and so you avoid the question.....

So you agree then that I have the right to force people not to have abortions?????

A simple yes or no will suffice......

What are you going on about?

An omnipotent being having the power to violate logic so as to make everyone a Christian without violating their free will is totally different to a person forcing someone else to have an abortion. You are comparing apples and oranges here.