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My take: Alabama woman who joined ISIS.

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by dstamps, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. dstamps

    dstamps New Member Supporter

    71
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    As individuals, Jesus tells us to forgive that we may not be judged by our own standards for forgiveness. Should it be any different for any Nation under GOD?
    She is willing to take the consequences of her mistake, which appears to be repentance. The question is, how can America forgive without returning her citizenship to her? Consequences should be through our legal system--not the State Department.

    There is a reason evil goes after the young. It is because they have little experience on which to base a firm rejection. Whether it is religion, politics, or educational systems, the young are prime targets for the reason stated above. #EnemyWithin #SelfServingNature
     
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  2. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    +2,349
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    She committed treason. The penalties for treason are very broad ... including death.

    We are the nation of second or more chances. Personally, I believe yes she should be allowed to return, and yes charged with treason and a pretty significant penalty, but certainly not death. Is she sincere about what she is saying? We really don't know. Are we ever really sure about anyone? Nope. Does she deserve a second chance .... yes.
     
  3. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +23,784
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    The consequences in this case would be through our legal system.

    The State Department is operating in accordance with the laws. If the Secy Of State instead was deciding on the basis of some moral judgment that is outside the legal system or acting in defiance of the legal system, the matter would be playing out differently.

    But the outcome to a great degree will come down to whether she is a citizen or not, which again is a matter of law.
     
  4. football5680

    football5680 Well-Known Member

    +1,487
    Catholic
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    She shouldn't be allowed back. The Kurds or Assad can deal with her. ISIS is not deceptive, they are very open about what they do and what they stand for. She joined them knowing all this and she doesn't seem remorseful about anything other than the current situation that she finds herself in. If she said that she deserves many years in jail then maybe that would show remorse but asking for therapy shows nothing.
     
  5. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    It looks like the State Department had already determined in 2004 that she is an American citizen.

    That would mean bringing her back and then determining if a charge of treason or some other criminal trial is warranted.
     
  6. AvilaSurfer

    AvilaSurfer Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,334
    United States
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    US-Republican
    Oh I can forgive her all I want. She should still rot in jail.
     
  7. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

    +5,503
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    She is in all likelihood a US citizen but I have reason to doubt her claim of repentance. If she had naively run off to Syria then realized she made a horrible mistake and early on returned to the US would be one thing. But in this case she joined ISIS, supported them, even married three of their members consecutively, and openly called for the murder of American citizens for years. Then after holding out to the bitter end, she was captured at the very last ISIS stronghold before crying uncle.

    I personally think she is now playing the victim in hopes of leniency at her sentencing. Equal protection of the law has it that she should spend 20 years in prison which would be the same sentence as John Walker Lynn received for fighting alongside the Taliban in Afghanistan.
     
  8. straykat

    straykat Well-Known Member

    +631
    United States
    Christian
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    It's right to forgive others. But I don't think that's up to State entities to follow Christ (I wish they did, but they don't.. the USA included). And if it was actually Christian to begin with, not to mention not actively hostile and Zionist, Wahabi Islam wouldn't even bother with the US to begin with. They're at war with both degenerates and Zionists. America is both.

    In other words, I'd stay out of it. Christianity has nothing to do with either of them.
     
  9. dstamps

    dstamps New Member Supporter

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    1. Revenge is an expression and goal of the "prince of this world".
    2. Forgiveness is the goal of GOD for all who have sinned (willing transgressed)
    3. She was a U.S. Citizen, but the State Department has cancelled her citizenship (father is suing the U.S. to get her reinstated).
    4. The young are easily deluded. She was essentially programmed from the age of a baby in her religion.
    5. Even though deluded, her motive was to serve GOD to the best of her ability. This is probably the same motive most of us have. Her situation should make us consider just how such delusion works to insure we don't also follow a path of delusion in one form or another.
    6. Once entering the ISIS group, no one leaves standing up unless they are lucky. They are forced to serve--women as sex objects. One slip up could result in death. She destroyed her phone to prevent ISIS from knowing her change of heart--so she says.
    7. Luke 23:34 2 Samuel 12:1-7
    8. Anyone who does evil is essentially spiritually sick. We should view them as such. Our purpose should be to make them well. Prison should only be used as a last resort in the process of making any one well. 1 John 3:17
    9. If she returns to the U.S. knowing that she will face our legal system, repentance is a strong probability. Naturally, she would hope that the U.S. would be compassionate and not put her in prison for a long time. If truly repentant, she would want the opportunity to prove it. Not likely in prison.
    10. I feel she could be used to speak out against organizations like ISIS--reveal them for what they are. This could turn what started as an evil purpose into a good purpose in the end--GOD's Way.
     
  10. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

    +5,628
    Non-Denom
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    US-Republican
    When she converts to Christianity and raises her son to be Christian, and holds to the Christian faith under duress, I will forgive her.
     
  11. Lily76_

    Lily76_ PRO-LIFE ( meaning all life ) Supporter

    +2,350
    United Kingdom
    Christian
    Married
    UK-Labour
    she could blow people up if they let her back to the states she could be on a mission by isis to kill as many people as she can DONT TRUST HER
     
  12. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

    +2,005
    Methodist
    The officer in the Coast Guard who was recently arrested for planning to assassinate the senior leadership of the Democratic Party, and members of what this President has characterized as "enemies of the people," gets to retain his citizenship, but apparently a young woman who admits that she made a mistake is unworthy of a 2nd chance!

    The American military claims to have captured and detained over 800 foreign ISIS fighters in Syria and has requested that they be deported back to their home countries!

    It would appear to be totally hypocritical for the Trump Administration to strongly insist that other nations repatriate their citizens who fought for ISIS, while America refuses to follow its own advice!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  13. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +10,857
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    US-Democrat
    I agree. I'm fairly liberal but I don't see the point in clemency, as you point out. What ISIS represents is repugnant to all civilized people, and ISIS doesn't attempt to hide that fact. This isn't just about an adolescent pecadillo.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  14. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Yes.

    There are two separate points here.

    I'll demonstrate the first with another recent news item.

    Supreme Court: Military retirees can be court-martialed for crimes committed after service

    In this story the Supreme Court recently upheld law and precedent that the military can court-martial retired members (like me) for crimes committed under civilian circumstances. They don't do it often. But they do under certain circumstances.

    In this case, the crime of the retired Marine occurred off-base overseas in Japan. Crimes in the Japanese community by US military is an extremely hot political button. Technically, the Japanese have jurisdiction, but the military prefers to negotiate for jurisdiction in order to "shoot their own rabid dog" (meaningful to those who have seen "Ol' Yeller").

    In this case, the man in question not only got prison time as severe as the Japanese would have given him, but having been officially convicted by court-martial, he was also dishonorably discharged from the USMC (he will never be able to claim Marine Corps association again--a true horror for those guys), which means that he loses all the pay and benefits of retired military. A civilian conviction does not have that effect (yep, retired military convicted and imprisoned by civilian courts still accrue retirement pay, which will be waiting for them when they're released).

    Regardless of what any of us might feel about whether this woman is truly penitent or whether she "deserves mercy" (in quotes because the phrase is an oxymoron), because she had previously been declared a citizen by the State Department, she should be brought back to the US for the US to decide what to do with her next.

    A real man shoots his own dog.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  15. HannahT

    HannahT Newbie Supporter

    +2,011
    Christian
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    Just because people disagree about allowing her back doesn't show a lack of forgiveness.

    I'm actually torn, because not returning is also a form of consequences. Contrition is a show of true repentance whether she comes back to the states or not.

    I know there is a legal fight over her citizenship at this point, and I don't know enough about that issue to make an opinion. I had read that diplomats having children in this country doesn't grant them automatic citizenship. The way the media plays things today - who knows if that is correct or not.
     
  16. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +11,411
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    There were situational differences in her case.

    The point is that the State Department had, in fact, officially declared her a citizen years ago. I am extremely opposed to removing citizenship by fiat once it's been conferred by legal authority. Such an incident should at least involve a court hearing.
     
  17. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

    +2,005
    Methodist
    [​IMG]
    My take: Alabama woman who joined ISIS

    Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun (March 23, 1912 – June 16, 1977) was a German-American aerospace engineer and space architect. He was the leading figure in the development of rocket technology in Germany and a pioneer of rocket technology and space science in the United States.

    While in his twenties and early thirties, von Braun worked in Nazi Germany's rocket development program. He helped design and develop the V-2 rocket at Peenemünde during World War II. Following the war, he was secretly moved to the United States, along with about 1,600 other German scientists, engineers, and technicians, as part of Operation Paperclip. He worked for the United States Army on an intermediate-range ballistic missile (IRBM) program, and he developed the rockets that launched the United States' first space satellite Explorer 1. His group was assimilated into NASA, where he served as director of the newly formed Marshall Space Flight Center and as the chief architect of the Saturn V super heavy-lift launch vehicle that propelled the Apollo spacecraft to the Moon. In 1975, von Braun received the National Medal of Science. He advocated a human mission to Mars.

    Wernher von Braun - Wikipedia

    ***************************************************************
    After WW1 and WW2, former soldiers and their families from Germany, Italy, Austria .... were allowed to immigrate to the US -

    In fact the early American rocket and space program depended heavily on Wernher von Braun and the other 1,600 German scientists, engineers, and technicians who came to he US after serving the 3rd Reich.

    Von Braun not only belonged to the Nazi Party but also became a member of the SS - but that didn't prevent the American government from "turning a blind eye," rolling out the red carpet and welcoming him and his fellow Germans with open arms!
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  18. HannahT

    HannahT Newbie Supporter

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    (Shrugs) At that time in history in the country of Germany? If you didn't join you would lose a lot - in many cases your life. Then they had no issue taking out your family as well.

    I don't see how that compares to a young girl abandoning her country, family and way of life to JOIN a terrorist group.

    She has nothing to offer either. I don't see this as a good comparison.
     
  19. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +11,411
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    An honorable man shoots his own rabid dog.

    If she's our dog, it's our job to shoot her.
     
  20. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

    +2,005
    Methodist
    [​IMG]
    Unlike Wernher von Braun and the other 1,600 German scientists, engineers, and technicians, there is no evidence that this American girl was ever directly involved in activities that led to military and civilian deaths!

    The V1 and V2 rockets, referred to as German "revenge/terror" weapons, deliberately targeted British civilians - resulting in over 30,000 casualties and leaving 100,000's homeless.

    If the US government can rationalize bringing former members of the Nazi Party and SS officers to America, because they possessed rocket related skills , it can give a US citizen, who made a mistake as a teenager and has apologized, a second chance!

    Once WW2 ended, virtually every German claimed that they were forced to belong to the military, the Nazi Party and/or the SS and that they were "just following orders" - an excuse that was refuted at the Nuremburg Trials!
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
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