My solution for poverty.

UnprofitableServant

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I am for helping the poor more than most folks on Christian Forums, but the U.S. is in a very bad fiscal situation. Sooner or later, taxes will have to be raised or programs will have to be cut. The Federal Deficit cannot keep going up at this rate much longer.
Matthew 6:1-4
In peace
 
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Ronald

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As you know I am deeply concerned about the poor, especially the drain they have on the rest of us. So here is my solution.

Pay them enough to lift them above the poverty level. Just write a check. This will save taxpayers $billions and effectively end poverty. It makes no sense to award a poor family tens of thousands in free benefits when a few thousand in cash will raise them above the nominal poverty level.

You're welcome.
Here is another idea. Implement a new teaching in school. "If you don't work, you don't eat!" (2 Thes. 3:10). Actually there are many scriptures addressing those who are lazy and refuse to work:
What Does the Bible Say About Men Who Dont Work Dont Eat?

It will take a while to digest, as did liberal social programs. But this was God's intention in the beginning, that we would be responsible for our own lives. The work ethic can eventually erase most free hand outs and welfare. Obviously some are disabled, mentally or physically and some need a helping hand, a temporary helping hand to get back on the path.
Of course other liberal ways have destroyed the ways in which God wants us to walk that make this universal work ethic more out of reach. Sin in general, like getting pregnant out of wedlock or divorce and of course lack of faith in God.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Here is another idea. Implement a new teaching in school. "If you don't work, you don't eat!" (2 Thes. 3:10). Actually there are many scriptures addressing those who are lazy and refuse to work:
What Does the Bible Say About Men Who Dont Work Dont Eat?

It will take a while to digest, as did liberal social programs. But this was God's intention in the beginning, that we would be responsible for our own lives. The work ethic can eventually erase most free hand outs and welfare. Obviously some are disabled, mentally or physically and some need a helping hand, a temporary helping hand to get back on the path.
Of course other liberal ways have destroyed the ways in which God wants us to walk that make this universal work ethic more out of reach. Sin in general, like getting pregnant out of wedlock or divorce and of course lack of faith in God.

One problem is that many want to start at the top and work their way up instead of starting at the entry level positions. That's the allure of higher education; they can skip the 'work' part of their career.
 
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Ronald

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One problem is that many want to start at the top and work their way up instead of starting at the entry level positions. That's the allure of higher education; they can skip the 'work' part of their career.
Well, high education is work. But you don't always get a VP job right out of school. Actually people that go to school are putting a solid foundation down, which is part of the work ethic.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Well, high education is work. But you don't always get a VP job right out of school. Actually people that go to school are putting a solid foundation down, which is part of the work ethic.

That may be true for technical fields, but I question the 'work experience' gained in liberal arts courses. The best work experience is gained by...working.
 
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Radagast

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How do you train someone not to be stupid?

Good question.

You teach them to think before they act, and, very early on, you make sure they suffer some kind of consequences from their mistakes (the earlier you do that, the smaller the mistakes and consequences will be).

To rear a boy under what parents call the “sheltered life system” is, if the boy must go into the world and fend for himself, not wise. Unless he be one in a thousand he has certainly to pass through many unnecessary troubles; and may, possibly, come to extreme grief simply from ignorance of the proper proportions of things.

Let a puppy eat the soap in the bath-room or chew a newly-blacked boot. He chews and chuckles until, by and by, he finds out that blacking and Old Brown Windsor make him very sick; so he argues that soap and boots are not wholesome. Any old dog about the house will soon show him the unwisdom of biting big dogs’ ears. Being young, he remembers and goes abroad, at six months, a well-mannered little beast with a chastened appetite. If he had been kept away from boots, and soap, and big dogs till he came to the trinity full-grown and with developed teeth, just consider how fearfully sick and thrashed he would be! Apply that motion to the “sheltered life,” and see how it works. It does not sound pretty, but it is the better of two evils.

There was a Boy once who had been brought up under the “sheltered life” theory; and the theory killed him dead. He stayed with his people all his days, from the hour he was born till the hour he went into Sandhurst nearly at the top of the list. He was beautifully taught in all that wins marks by a private tutor, and carried the extra weight of “never having given his parents an hour’s anxiety in his life.” What he learnt at Sandhurst beyond the regular routine is of no great consequence. He looked about him, and he found soap and blacking, so to speak, very good. He ate a little, and came out of Sandhurst not so high as he went in. Then there was an interval and a scene with his people, who expected much from him. Next a year of living “unspotted from the world” in a third-rate depot battalion where all the juniors were children, and all the seniors old women; and lastly he came out to India, where he was cut off from the support of his parents, and had no one to fall back on in time of trouble except himself....
-- Rudyard Kipling, "Thrown Away"
 
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Radagast

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You teach them to think before they act, and, very early on, you make sure they suffer some kind of consequences from their mistakes (the earlier you do that, the smaller the mistakes and consequences will be).

Needless to say, I think the majority of schools are having exactly the wrong effect here.
 
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Ronald

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I thought about how your "don't work, don't eat" solution would work and... it wouldn't.
I did not contrive that idea, that was given to us by God. So I guess you would prefer to ignore God's plan for us and go with some socialized prescription contrived by man?
Of course inner city kids don't have the skills, 70% of them are fatherless. No fathers, no guidance, rebelliousness towards schools, teachers, and education in general leads them to joining gangs and alternative work (crime). Education can reverse that but it will take a couple generations to erase the welfare recipient mentality where the world somehow owes you a living and it's the world's fault for your status in life. Many have risen above the ghettos and become successful.
It is the worst thing you can do for people, to give them a free living -- it turns them into lazy, drug/alcohol addicts or coach potatoes at best. It removes dignity, ambition and purpose. You can thank president Johnson for our welfare system. People thought it was good for them; but in reality, it was a way of keeping them down and dependent on the government, a way of decreasing their chances or achieving.
No, the work ethic needs to be strengthened and the free hand-outs need to be removed.
***An addition note. If we limited all jobs, welfare, healthcare and education to citizens only, we would not need a wall, they wouldn't be coming over here to get nothing. But wall is necessary to keep out criminals. The wall is necessary for a country, a culture to sustain itself.
 
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Ronald

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I thought about how your "don't work, don't eat" solution would work and... it wouldn't.
I did not contrive that idea, that was given to us by God. So I guess you would prefer to ignore God's plan for us and go with some socialized prescription contrived by man?
Of course inner city kids don't have the skills, 70% of them are fatherless. No fathers, no guidance, rebelliousness towards schools, teachers, and education in general leads them to joining gangs and alternative work (crime). Education can reverse that but it will take a couple generations to erase the welfare recipient mentality where the world somehow owes you a living and it's the world's fault for your status in life. Many have risen above the ghettos and become successful.
It is the worst thing you can do for people, to give them a free living -- it turns them into lazy, drug/alcohol addicts or coach potatoes at best. It removes dignity, ambition and purpose. You can thank president Johnson for our welfare system. People thought it was good for them; but in reality, it was a way of keeping them down and dependent on the government, a way of decreasing their chances or achieving.
No, the work ethic needs to be strengthened and the free hand-outs need to be removed.
***An addition note. If we limited all jobs, welfare, healthcare and education to citizens only, we would not need a wall, they wouldn't be coming over here to get nothing. But wall is necessary to keep out criminals. The wall is necessary for a country, a culture to sustain itself.
 
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Ronald

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That may be true for technical fields, but I question the 'work experience' gained in liberal arts courses. The best work experience is gained by...working.
True. Education is required in any job. Some tasks require little like tying up a cargo ship. I met a guy who worked as a longshoreman many years ago who made $50k/ year about 40 years ago. I asked how long it took to learn how to do his job? He said about 20 minutes - hence the attraction to being a longshoreman. Of course the crane operators make ridiculous money so much more training and education is required for those jobs.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I did not contrive that idea, that was given to us by God. So I guess you would prefer to ignore God's plan for us and go with some socialized prescription contrived by man?
Of course inner city kids don't have the skills, 70% of them are fatherless. No fathers, no guidance, rebelliousness towards schools, teachers, and education in general leads them to joining gangs and alternative work (crime). Education can reverse that but it will take a couple generations to erase the welfare recipient mentality where the world somehow owes you a living and it's the world's fault for your status in life. Many have risen above the ghettos and become successful.
It is the worst thing you can do for people, to give them a free living -- it turns them into lazy, drug/alcohol addicts or coach potatoes at best. It removes dignity, ambition and purpose. You can thank president Johnson for our welfare system. People thought it was good for them; but in reality, it was a way of keeping them down and dependent on the government, a way of decreasing their chances or achieving.
No, the work ethic needs to be strengthened and the free hand-outs need to be removed.
***An addition note. If we limited all jobs, welfare, healthcare and education to citizens only, we would not need a wall, they wouldn't be coming over here to get nothing. But wall is necessary to keep out criminals. The wall is necessary for a country, a culture to sustain itself.

We also need to end the student loan program, which allows kids to skip the valuable work experience (enter illegals to do that work :eek:), get hopelessly in debt, then pass that debt on to others. Such a deal.
 
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Goonie

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We also need to end the student loan program, which allows kids to skip the valuable work experience (enter illegals to do that work :eek:), get hopelessly in debt, then pass that debt on to others. Such a deal.
Given the extremely high costs of higher education, without a student loan system you are threatening the economics of the whole university system. Remember doctors, programmers, scientists, engineers etc are vital for the economy.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Given the extremely high costs of higher education, without a student loan system you are threatening the economics of the whole university system. Remember doctors, programmers, scientists, engineers etc are vital for the economy.

The student loan program is largely responsible for the huge increases in the cost of education. And, the bubble has already burst, as nearly 40 percent of those loans, totaling nearly 1.4 $trillion are either in default or close to it. So it's already an economic disaster.
 
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Dave-W

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The student loan program is largely responsible for the huge increases in the cost of education.
Wrong. While in the 1950s to the 70s, states paid for most of the education out of tax revenue, budget cuts due to the mid-late 70s recession and those pushing to lower taxes all around meant state governments had to slash funding of colleges. The rise in tuition costs was what led to student loans which led to the current bad state of affairs.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Wrong. While in the 1950s to the 70s, states paid for most of the education out of tax revenue, budget cuts due to the mid-late 70s recession and those pushing to lower taxes all around meant state governments had to slash funding of colleges. The rise in tuition costs was what led to student loans which led to the current bad state of affairs.

The majority opinion has student loans responsible for out-of -control tuition costs. Do a search on the topic.
 
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SolomonVII

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Being in (long-term) debt doesn't mean we have no money. Most of the debt isn't due for many years, SS for example. By spending less on the poor, mainly by eliminating agencies and bureaucracies, we can actually retire debt faster.
I did that math in my head once. If the budget for the Department of Indian affairs was redistributed directly to poor Indians in Canada individually, it would provide a very good wage for all.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I did that math in my head once. If the budget for the Department of Indian affairs was redistributed directly to poor Indians in Canada individually, it would provide a very good wage for all.

I agree. However neither group can be trusted to spend the money wisely, thus the need for government programs that don't involve direct payments.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I'm curious as to why some people keep advocating that all people vote for politicians who want to expand the handout system instead of politicians who want to create opportunities for everyone to be all they can be?? :scratch:

Equally curious is why everyone isn't taught (in our compulsory education system) that they can find success in a myriad of ways, many of which don't require education beyond high school (however they should at least finish HS). Of course the carefully crafted stigma of ignorance associated with not seeking education beyond high school is hard to overcome.
 
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Gigimo

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Equally curious is why everyone isn't taught (in our compulsory education system) that they can find success in a myriad of ways, many of which don't require education beyond high school (however they should at least finish HS). Of course the carefully crafted stigma of ignorance associated with not seeking education beyond high school is hard to overcome.

One of my first jobs when I was a kid was working for a person who had been an orphan and illiterate. Business sense is earned by doing because you can't find it in a textbook, a lot of businesses in the 40s/50s started in a similar manner. The company grew to over 100 outlets at one time and is still operating to this day albeit struggling somewhat, the man was Vic Cassano Sr and the company Cassano's Pizza King.
 
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