My rantings

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Telrunya

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I'm pro-choice. I also believe that people should be responsible for the consequences of the choices they make. If you choose to have sex, and a baby is the consequence of that choice, then take responsibility for it!!!​

An embryo has it's own unique genetic make up. It floats down to attach itself to the uterine wall. Key point. It attaches itself. The placenta forms from the embryo, not the host, to leech nutrients off the host. By all scientific standards the embryo is a living organism. Once the human egg is fertilized it only has one possible outcome. Human cells.
So what we have is a Unique, living, human organism.​

It's a unique living human organism, so it's not the woman's body. She's made her choice already to have sex and the baby is the consequence of that choice. (BTW The guy made the same choice and is equally responsible) All this means abortion is wrong!!!!​

God is evident in nature. I didn't need to use a single biblical verse in that whole explanation.​
 

PeacaHeaven

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I'm pro-choice. I also believe that people should be responsible for the consequences of the choices they make. If you choose to have sex, and a baby is the consequence of that choice, then take responsibility for it!!!​


An embryo has it's own unique genetic make up. It floats down to attach itself to the uterine wall. Key point. It attaches itself. The placenta forms from the embryo, not the host, to leech nutrients off the host. By all scientific standards the embryo is a living organism. Once the human egg is fertilized it only has one possible outcome. Human cells.
So what we have is a Unique, living, human organism.​

It's a unique living human organism, so it's not the woman's body. She's made her choice already to have sex and the baby is the consequence of that choice. (BTW The guy made the same choice and is equally responsible) All this means abortion is wrong!!!!​


God is evident in nature. I didn't need to use a single biblical verse in that whole explanation.​
A long time ago I listened to a discussion about abortion.

The woman for abortion said, "The embryo is inside the woman and dependant upon her body for life so she should be able to abort. "

The pro life woman said, "ok. I'll take you for a drive to the country in my car and you can strap yourself in with the seatbelt, and I'll drive you off of a cliff while I hurry and jump out to save myself. Since your life was in my hands inside my car, you lose".
 
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pgp_protector

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Since it is attaching itself to the uterus for sustenance, and could not sustain life on its own for quite awhile, would it not be (Biologically speaking) considered a parasite?
Well even after birth I've known a few children to remain a parasite. ;)
 
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Telrunya

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Since it is attaching itself to the uterus for sustenance, and could not sustain life on its own for quite awhile, would it not be (Biologically speaking) considered a parasite?
It definately could be. But it is a human parasite.
 
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Nadiine

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Since it is attaching itself to the uterus for sustenance, and could not sustain life on its own for quite awhile, would it not be (Biologically speaking) considered a parasite?
Please tell me I didn't just read that! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Isa 44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

Isa 43:7 [Even] every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Psa 94:9 He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? he that formed the eye, shall he not see?
 
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Telrunya

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Full humans are not parasites (they are not pulling sustenance from another living creature).
My 3 month old, breast fed, neice stands in direct opposition to your statement.

I would even say that my 2 year old son's existance is in opposition to your statement but it gets kinda fuzzy there.
 
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Telrunya

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Please tell me I didn't just read that! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Isa 44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

Isa 43:7 [Even] every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Psa 94:9 He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? he that formed the eye, shall he not see?
This is kind of a tongue in cheek observation and not really intimating that embryo's are parasites.
 
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Nadiine

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This is kind of a tongue in cheek observation and not really intimating that embryo's are parasites.
I hope so - I've never heard a statement like that about parasites and it floored me when I read it.
Just the thought of it is disturbing when speaking of a human being (in his/her earliest stages of life).
 
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BereanTodd

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Since it is attaching itself to the uterus for sustenance, and could not sustain life on its own for quite awhile, would it not be (Biologically speaking) considered a parasite?

If we accepted that argumentation we would be forced to also declare babies of the first couple years' life parasites. I've not seen yet a newborn who could take care of anything, including feeding itself. They are completely dependent upon others for their sustenance and care.
 
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linssue55

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Pro-choice and creationism is what I believe.

THE CREATION THEORY. Creationism—the present theme—and traducianism—yet to be considered—are doctrines related to the origin of the immaterial part of man which, though defended by men of equal orthodoxy, are widely different even to the point of contradiction.

Creationism teaches that God creates directly and immediately a soul for each body at the time of birth, and that only the body is grenerated by human parents.


Traducianism teaches that the soul of man are generated along with the body, in the womb.

The question is not authoritatively determined, and when good men differ so widely it is usually due to a lack of decisive testimony from the Scriptures. It is to be observed that, in the history of the church, creationism was largely the accepted doctrine of the Eastern division while traducianism was the accepted doctrine of the Western division.
 
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PeacaHeaven

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Pro-choice and creationism is what I believe.

THE CREATION THEORY. Creationism—the present theme—and traducianism—yet to be considered—are doctrines related to the origin of the immaterial part of man which, though defended by men of equal orthodoxy, are widely different even to the point of contradiction.

Creationism teaches that God creates directly and immediately a soul for each body at the time of birth, and that only the body is grenerated by human parents.


Traducianism teaches that the soul of man are generated along with the body, in the womb.

The question is not authoritatively determined, and when good men differ so widely it is usually due to a lack of decisive testimony from the Scriptures. It is to be observed that, in the history of the church, creationism was largely the accepted doctrine of the Eastern division while traducianism was the accepted doctrine of the Western division.
I don't understand what all that means but I think that when God breathed into Adam it says man became a living soul.

I think that since life genetically continues through people, that the breath of life that God gave Adam is in all of us that follow from Adam.
So I think we're a soul at conception. However that works.
It says God knows us before we were formed.
 
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linssue55

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I don't understand what all that means but I think that when God breathed into Adam it says man became a living soul. Yes this is true.

I think that since life genetically continues through people, that the breath of life that God gave Adam is in all of us that follow from Adam.
So I think we're a soul at conception. However that works.
It says God knows us before we were formed.
God STILL breaths (na-sha-ma)the breath of lives in ALL people, at birth.
 
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oliveplants

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DId anybody see that show on 20/20 (or one of those news shows) a while back, that was about the doctor in Arkansas that does all those abortions? He had no problem admitting that the embryo is alive, just said that it was of less importance than the mother. :eek:

Glad it's not up to the doctors (or Supreme Court, for that matter) to decide that the life of women, or people with long hair, or over 60, or under 10, or what have you, is less important than the life of any other type of person.

LIFE is a gift from God, at any stage!
 
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elsbeth

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I'm kind of playing "devil's advocate" here with the comment about a parasite, but I want to make 2 points:

1) The OP started this by insisting that the fact that the fetus attaches itself to the uterine lining makes it a separate living thing and so not part of the mother's body. Technically that is so. But that makes the baby a "parasite" on the mother's body for 9 months. I was trying to make the point that this is NOT a good argument to use pro-life.

2) To those who say "well the infant and toddler are also, then, parasites": NO, they are not. I'm talking biological definitions here. The baby after birth is not ATTACHED and drawing sustenance from the mother (well, my 1st son nursed so much that it felt like it- but it isn't, technically.)
 
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Nadiine

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I'm kind of playing "devil's advocate" here with the comment about a parasite, but I want to make 2 points:

1) The OP started this by insisting that the fact that the fetus attaches itself to the uterine lining makes it a separate living thing and so not part of the mother's body. Technically that is so. But that makes the baby a "parasite" on the mother's body for 9 months. I was trying to make the point that this is NOT a good argument to use pro-life.

2) To those who say "well the infant and toddler are also, then, parasites": NO, they are not. I'm talking biological definitions here. The baby after birth is not ATTACHED and drawing sustenance from the mother (well, my 1st son nursed so much that it felt like it- but it isn't, technically.)
k, I just had never heard of anything like that before. It's not a subject that I've gotten into alot of debate over so I haven't heard alot of the types of views & arguments people hold on this.

Now that I know, I won't be so shocked next time I hear it. lol ;)
 
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Telrunya

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I'm kind of playing "devil's advocate" here with the comment about a parasite, but I want to make 2 points:

1) The OP started this by insisting that the fact that the fetus attaches itself to the uterine lining makes it a separate living thing and so not part of the mother's body. Technically that is so. But that makes the baby a "parasite" on the mother's body for 9 months. I was trying to make the point that this is NOT a good argument to use pro-life.

2) To those who say "well the infant and toddler are also, then, parasites": NO, they are not. I'm talking biological definitions here. The baby after birth is not ATTACHED and drawing sustenance from the mother (well, my 1st son nursed so much that it felt like it- but it isn't, technically.)
Well my tongue in cheek reply aside, I maintain it is a good distinction to make. As medical science progresses and establishes more and more that the fetus is capible of feeling and reacting to pain at a very early stage, it needs to be established that this being is not "a part of" the mother. Linssue55 and I can debate all day long that when scripture talks about while still in the womb, God knew us being knowledge or forknowledge and when that baby becomes an actual person. That doesn't change the facts. The facts are that it is human, It is not "a part of" the mother, it is aware to degrees from very early on of it's environment, and it can feel pain from very early on. That makes abortion immoral to an extremely high degree.
 
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