My Pumice Challenge

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Split Rock

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Can God create pumice ex nihilo tomorrow without deception?

Most "educated" people here will conclude that a literal Genesis 1 would constitute deception on God's part.

Even though He put what He did in Writing.

The real question should be, "Why did he manufacture pumice in the first place." There are some things that a god would have to create for a "mature" earth ready for his soon to be fallen great masterpiece of creation, but pumice is hardly one of them.
 
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AV1611VET

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Can God create pumice ex nihilo tomorrow without deception?

The real question should be, "Why did he manufacture pumice in the first place."
Why don't we establish if He can first,* before we try and establish why, scientist?

* Without being accused of deception by the clipboard clique, that is.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Why don't we establish if He can first,* before we try and establish why, scientist?

* Without being accused of deception by the clipboard clique, that is.

We have people like you always ready to tell us what God can and cannot do.
 
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Phred

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I find this rather amusing. You're speculating upon the range of powers of a being that you don't know exists.

It's like arguing over whether or not Santa can fly up a chimney or just magically appears on a roof. Some houses, after all, don't have chimneys.

Your god can do anything you want your god to do. Because you are the only thing defining your god. You read the Bible and you pretend to find answers in there as to what your god can and can't do. But really... is there anything your god can't do?

And yet, there is not one bit, not one shred of evidence that says to us, "Hey, look! God exists." You claim God pushes you forward, he makes you do things, he leads you in different directions... HOW? No energy, no anything has ever been found to show that this deity is somehow doing anything.

But then, the big questions. We have answers here about the universe. We can determine its age for instance. But the Bible disagrees. So what are we to do? Why, the Bible must be right. So how do we account for readings that show one thing while the Bible says another. The simple answer is, "the Bible is wrong." The complicated and ridiculous answer is that God created everything 6,000 years ago as if it had been around for billions of years. You can't tell. Every reading, every examination will tell you billions. But it's really 6,000.

Why? Why not just make it 6,000 years ago and be done with it? Or why not make it billions of years ago and be done with it? Doing it this way is a DECEPTION.

But it wasn't done this way. Because there isn't a god doing this kind of thing. Only a human being could come up with such nonsense.
 
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Split Rock

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Why don't we establish if He can first,* before we try and establish why, scientist?

* Without being accused of deception by the clipboard clique, that is.

Who is the "clipboard clique?" Is that anything like the "bible thumper crew?" Maybe we can do without insults all around.

It is important to determine why if you are to determine if it is deceptive. If his purpose was to convince us that the earth is older than it is, then it is deceptive. If there is a purpose necessary for a "mature" earth, then perhaps not.
 
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EternalDragon

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But then, the big questions. We have answers here about the universe. We can determine its age for instance. But the Bible disagrees. So what are we to do? Why, the Bible must be right. So how do we account for readings that show one thing while the Bible says another. The simple answer is, "the Bible is wrong." The complicated and ridiculous answer is that God created everything 6,000 years ago as if it had been around for billions of years. You can't tell. Every reading, every examination will tell you billions. But it's really 6,000.

Those readings rely on beginning assumptions. So it's man's assumptions of how old everything is. It's not fact.

If I could create something by speaking and created a 1969 Mustang, you would conclude it was made by Ford. On the assembly line in 1969. So I tell you "No, I just created it today".

Then you tell me, "All tests and appearances show it was created by Ford in 1969. It even has the assembly line tag on it".

How am I being deceptive if I explained the creation to you and made the car exactly as it should appear? This of course is a philosophical question and can't be proven either way, by either of us. Aside from the fact that I have something supposedly written by God that explains my position.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Those readings rely on beginning assumptions. So it's man's assumptions of how old everything is. It's not fact.

If I could create something by speaking and created a 1969 Mustang, you would conclude it was made by Ford. On the assembly line in 1969. So I tell you "No, I just created it today".

Then you tell me, "All tests and appearances show it was created by Ford in 1969. It even has the assembly line tag on it".

How am I being deceptive if I explained the creation to you and made the car exactly as it should appear? This of course is a philosophical question and can't be proven either way, by either of us. Aside from the fact that I have something supposedly written by God that explains my position.


Again, I need to point out that E.D. does not know what an assumption is.

Scientist do no assume those things E.D.. Far from it.
 
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EternalDragon

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Again, I need to point out that E.D. does not know what an assumption is.

Scientist do no assume those things E.D.. Far from it.

Then show me the readings as to the levels of isotopes in the
supposed year of 3.5 billion years ago. I want the paper and the
exact readings.

If you can't provide the evidence then it is an assumption.

I want exact readings of helium levels in the sun. If you can't provide
the evidence then it is an assumption.
 
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selfinflikted

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Again, I need to point out that E.D. does not know what an assumption is.

Scientist do no assume those things E.D.. Far from it.

I think he is using the word "assumption" correctly. I do not think he understands why certain bits of knowledge are not actually assumptions at all, however.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Then show me the readings as to the levels of isotopes in the
supposed year of 3.5 billion years ago. I want the paper and the
exact readings.

If you can't provide the evidence then it is an assumption.

I want exact readings of helium levels in the sun. If you can't provide
the evidence then it is an assumption.

Show me the readings 6,000 years ago that prove isotope dating wrong.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Really? I thought you would have a better response. Like in actual evidence.

Where is your "actual evidence"? If you don't have any, then admit it, and I will show you my evidence. Btw, the bible doesn't count as actual evidence.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Those readings rely on beginning assumptions. So it's man's assumptions of how old everything is. It's not fact.

So in order to either confirm or refute those assumptions of how old everything is, we can either examine everything, or read a religious text.

If I could create something by speaking and created a 1969 Mustang. . .

Why does every YEC argument invariably end up with them placing themselves in the role of God? Anyone else find that telling?
 
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