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My Pastor Is A Calvinist....But

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by jmc66, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. jmc66

    jmc66 Newbie

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    My pastor says that he is a Calvinist....But he feels that it is very important that we follow the great commission "Matthew 28:19-20".

    Why in the world, then, would some members of the congregation come down on him just because he says that he is a Calvinist.

    My pastor preaches from the Bible, and not once in five years has he ever had a sermon that pushes Calvinism. For instance, never has he preached a sermon entitled something such as "Why we need to Be Calvinists Instead of Arminians"

    Give me a break.....this man preaches the word, and lives by the word, so why should it matter if he calls himself a Calvinist or an Arminian?

    If we teach the Bible, live by the Bible, and limit our Calvinism/Arminian debates to Saturday morning coffeehouse talk with our friends and fellow brothers and sisters, then WHAT'S THE BEEF!!

    Help me, please!! I need to defend this wonderful man to some very narrow-minded people.
     
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  2. joey_downunder

    joey_downunder big sister

    +136
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  3. jmc66

    jmc66 Newbie

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    It's study the Bible, live the Bible.

    How does one explain Romans 9? Yet we are told to spread the gospel in Matthew 28: 19-20

    I see no contradiction.....God may very well elect. Yet we are still instructed to evangelize. How else do the elect hear the gospel? And who are we to determine who they are?

    Just do what the Bible says and ultimately it doesn't matter what your theology is in that department. (i.e. the Calvinism/Arminianism department)

    Am I making sense?
     
  4. Bella Vita

    Bella Vita Sailor in the U.S.N

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    One of my favorite pastors Mark Driscoll is a Calvinist it doesn't limit his sermons any it really doesn't matter to me as there are supporting sides and scriptures to both arguments. I myself can see were both are coming from it's not even that big of a deal only God knows our hearts only he knows who will go were and we are to busy concerning ourselves with who in the church is saved and who isn't. Let's focus on those outside the church and just love people and love God and share his message if we are the person who brings someone to the light great but only God knows. All this Calvinist once saved always saved blah blah is not even important.
     
  5. jmc66

    jmc66 Newbie

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    Thank you Bella for sharing your heart.....I do believe that we share the same theology.
     
  6. joey_downunder

    joey_downunder big sister

    +136
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    I think you make perfect sense. God knows who will be saved but christians still should seek to save the lost. I bet a person street-preaching beside an outer suburban Melbourne shopping centre never would think a few words about the Gospel would convict a severely backslidden creature like me. I would love to meet him and thank him one day.
     
  7. SDBaptist

    SDBaptist Puritan

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    A lot of people don't understand why Calvinists evangelise. The answer is, it's a command. G-d uses it to bring greater judgement on the reprobates (goats) and to save and draw his vessels of mercy (sheep).

    It is a command. That is why we obey the great commission. All of my Calvinist friends including myself are street preachers. The point is to glorify G-d.
    Look for the sermon "Ten Shekels and a Shirt" by Paris Reidheed. It explains why Calvinists evangelise along with some other important issues.
     
  8. ThatWhichIsnt

    ThatWhichIsnt evidence trumps all

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    God commanded us to preach to Gospel. Election or not, His command is sufficient for me.
     
  9. JSGuitarist

    JSGuitarist Παρα σοι ιλασμος εστιν

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    I could give you an opinion, though I'd prefer you PM me when you answer this for the privacy of your church, just so they aren't identified by the details (and neither you): what is the nature of this criticism? What are they saying? How are they going about it? Are they searching Scripture over the matter?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2011
  10. Skala

    Skala I'm a Saint. Not because of me, but because of Him

    +409
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    People partly rage against Calvinism for a few reasons:

    1) They don't understand it
    2) It has a weird name, thus it sounds "foreign" to them, etc
    3) They immediately think the worst, especially about hot topics such as "predestination"

    Anyways, God uses means to accomplish his ends. he uses tools to get the job done. Evangelism has a purpose, and God uses it to save sinners. Evangelism is the means God uses to bring all of His elect to salvation, and God will not fail to save a single person.

    Nobody knows who the elect are, only God does. The thing is, an evangelist is more inclined to preach the gospel if he understand this, because he knows God has already sovereignly ordained to make him a success at his efforts. Therefore you evangelize for God's glory, and also, God allows us to participate in his amazing task of saving sinners.

    Whereas, if you don't believe in election, you have no guarantee that you will be successful. It means you go to bed at night wondering if you didn't make a good enough 'sales pitch' and therefore it is your own fault that the person you witnessed to will end up in hell. How could you live with yourself or sleep at night if you didn't believe in election?

    Anyways, Paul, one of the greatest evangelists, told us that the reason he endured all things (he went through many hardships, persecution, imprisonment, etc) was for the sake of seeing all the elect saved:

    2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

    The point is, election is the reason, the motivation behind evangelism. Rather than the idea that God chose who is saved shutting evangelism down or making it pointless, in fact the exact opposite is true! The reason we evangelist is BECAUSE God will, through our efforts, save, 100% succesfully, all of His people!
     
  11. faceofbear

    faceofbear Veteran

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    Because when it comes down to it, "Preaching the truth," is rather relative to an individual. A Calvinist believes they are preaching truth, a Catholic believes they are preaching truth, a Mormon believes they are preaching truth, a Arminian believes they are preaching truth, so on and so forth. Now, I would venture to guess that no one here would say a Mormon teaches the same Gospel the majority of Christianity preaches. However, by way of your standard, let's just allow Mormonism to be taught as truth in Baptist churches, okay? Nothing wrong with that, right? It's all "truth," correct? Now, I'm not attacking you, nor did I say that you said Mormonism is truth, but I showing you where your argument is fundamentally flawed. Many Calvinists believe that Arminianism teaches duty faith, and duty faith, to a Calvinist, is just as hideous as a works based religion that many Protestants believe Catholicism teaches. Why? Because duty faith focuses on what an individual must do to save themselves and not what Christ has done. Thus, to a Calvinist, a strong one anyways, a Arminian may not even be saved. And so it goes with Arminians. Many Arminians believe that Calvinists refuse to repent and believe, because they only want Christ to be sufficient without any duty on the individual. Now, you say your Pastor preaches the truth, what is quite scary to me is how many Christians believe their Pastor preaches the truth, when there is only one Truth, and it's Christ. But I rarely hear anything about Christ these days. It's all do, do, do, do do. Especially amongst more liberal branches. But not only so, even amongst confused Conservatives. Some which are quite popular within the Baptist denomination, even. Regardless, my point is, your Pastor teaches the truth in your opinion. And I'd be willing to bet many here are willing to dispute with your opinion, and thereby what your Pastor teaches, proving that the debate matters, and will continue. Why? Because so many have forgot that truth is not what a Pastor teaches, or what the church says, but it is who Christ is. And yet so many people believe their church teaches truth, without much reference to Christ. So, are they really preaching "the truth?" Don't know.

    All I know is that for me, I just remember that I am not limited to any doctrinal stance. When I wonder what the truth is, I know it's Christ. When I wonder what the way is, I know it's Christ. When I wonder how I may receive life, I know it's Christ. All of which Calvinism teaches. Arminianism, on the other hand, will tell you that the truth is you must repent and believe. They will tell you that the way is faith. They will tell you to receive life, you must remain faithful. But for me, I don't have any good works, nor enough faith, nor enough repentance. So, my experience tells me, Christ is all I need. The end. And that's why it matters, because souls are being mislead.
     
  12. Pete_Martinez

    Pete_Martinez Newbie

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    The reason Calvinists evangelize is because that's the way God wanted it done. He knocked the apostle Paul off of his donkey and blinded him. If God wants someone, he'll get them. While God could knock everyone off of their donkey/car and blind them, here is what Paul says is the method for God's good news to be preached....

    1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

    I mean whether or not you believe that the events in Revelation are literal, it says...

    Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
    Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    God could at any time do it tons better than we can, even angels could leave us in the dust. But that is the way God is pleased to spread the gospel and well... that's why it's done.
     
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