My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me?

[Basil the Great]

By the way, the Aramaic translation is also given as "for this was I kept" which may be understood as somewhat less dramatic or transcendent than when "destiny" is the translation.

Yes, there are some variations in the Aramaic translations, though they all roughly the same.

 

[Fervent]

I understand your position and many Christians do hold to it.

The aramaic mistranslation hypothesis is unnecessary, as far as I'm concerned. A simple line can be drawn from the scene to the psalm, far too many parallels to be mere coincidence from the drawing of lots for the garment, to having hands pierced, etc. So to try to massage the phrase into something that is found less "troublesome" seems more imposition than exposition. Multiple sources attest to the form we have, and the objections tend to be based on ignorant speculations rather than knowledge of the Scripture.

 

[dqhall]

These words from the cross have troubled many for centuries. There appears to be several possible explanations for Jesus saying this.

(1) Some claim that he was simply pointing to one of the Psalms as a way of showing others to have faith in God. Sorry, but most of my conservative Christian friends through the years have always told me that context is best used to interpret Scripture. Hence, the context of Jesus' suffering on the cross does not appear to lend itself to him pointing to one of the Psalms.
(2) I recall a Baptist preacher 50 years ago who spoke about these words on Palm Sunday and he said that Jesus felt forsaken on the cross by the Father and this was Jesus' way of expressing his isolation at the moment. While this explanation seems a little better than the first one, it is still not very satisfying for many of us. Even Luther tried to do a sermon on these words, but could not understand how God could forsake God.
(3) Jesus was not God, but merely the Son of God and thus truly did feel forsaken by God on the cross.
(4) Perhaps the best explanation of all is one that many of you will refuse to consider, as it could pose a problem for those who believe that the Holy Spirit protects Scripture from making any errors of significant importance. While doing online research recently, I came across what is reportedly an Aramaic translation of these words and it goes like this: "My God, my God, for this I was destined". I must say that this reported Aramaic translation makes much more sense to me. Now it is true that such a change in Scripture is not really a change that directly impacts salvation, but it is still a significant change from the translations that virtually all of us are used to seeing.

What do the rest of you think of these words from the cross? Is it quite possible that the Greek translation erred in the meaning of Jesus' intent and that this reported Aramaic translation is the accurate one?

I was reminded of the text in Psalm 22.

 

[RDKirk]

The parallels between the crucifixion and Psalm 22 are too precise and too numerous to dismiss. The Holy Spirit, through the Father's omniscient view, saw the future crucifixion and gave David the vision and inspiration to report it 1,000 years before it would occur.

Either Jesus was clear in mind and consciously pointing back to David's psalm as prophetic...

...or at the moment it did occur, Jesus was delirious and just happened to cry out the very words that the Holy Spirit had given to David 1,000 years earlier.

I think the former is more likely true, inasmuch as that declaration was not Jesus' final words. He continued to speak coherently afterward, clearly not delirious.

And, of course, Jesus would have been quite familiar with the Psalm. He already knew all the scriptures that pointed to Him. He would know that psalm, in particular, prophesied his manner of death.

 

[dqhall]

The parallels between the crucifixion and Psalm 22 are too precise and too numerous to dismiss. The Holy Spirit, through the Father's omniscient view, saw the future crucifixion and gave David the vision and inspiration to report it 1,000 years before it would occur.

Either Jesus was clear in mind and consciously pointing back to David's psalm as prophetic...

...or at the moment it did occur, Jesus was delirious and just happened to cry out the very words that the Holy Spirit had given to David 1,000 years earlier.

I think the former is more likely true, inasmuch as that declaration was not Jesus' final words. He continued to speak coherently afterward, clearly not delirious.

And, of course, Jesus would have been quite familiar with the Psalm. He already knew all the scriptures that pointed to Him. He would know that psalm, in particular, prophesied his manner of death.

It points to times of suffering when people are in agony and salvation seems far away, yet God will save a few. Resurrection is the hope of salvation.

 

[RDKirk]

It points to times of suffering when people are in agony and salvation seems far away, yet God will save a few. Resurrection is the hope of salvation.

That is how Psalm 22 must have been understood until the crucifixion actually occurred. But upon seeing the crucifixion, believers in Christ understood it was prophetic.

 

[Der Alte]

These words from the cross have troubled many for centuries. There appears to be several possible explanations for Jesus saying this.
(1) Some claim that he was simply pointing to one of the Psalms as a way of showing others to have faith in God. Sorry, but most of my conservative Christian friends through the years have always told me that context is best used to interpret Scripture. Hence, the context of Jesus' suffering on the cross does not appear to lend itself to him pointing to one of the Psalms.
(2) I recall a Baptist preacher 50 years ago who spoke about these words on Palm Sunday and he said that Jesus felt forsaken on the cross by the Father and this was Jesus' way of expressing his isolation at the moment. While this explanation seems a little better than the first one, it is still not very satisfying for many of us. Even Luther tried to do a sermon on these words, but could not understand how God could forsake God.
(3) Jesus was not God, but merely the Son of God and thus truly did feel forsaken by God on the cross.
(4) Perhaps the best explanation of all is one that many of you will refuse to consider, as it could pose a problem for those who believe that the Holy Spirit protects Scripture from making any errors of significant importance. While doing online research recently, I came across what is reportedly an Aramaic translation of these words and it goes like this: "My God, my God, for this I was destined". I must say that this reported Aramaic translation makes much more sense to me. Now it is true that such a change in Scripture is not really a change that directly impacts salvation, but it is still a significant change from the translations that virtually all of us are used to seeing.
What do the rest of you think of these words from the cross? Is it quite possible that the Greek translation erred in the meaning of Jesus' intent and that this reported Aramaic translation is the accurate one?

Why did Jesus quote Psalm 22 from the cross? Because it was prophesy.

Psalms 22:7-8
7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.[Mat 27:29]
Psalms 22:16
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.[crucifixion unknown at the time of the Psalms]
Psalms 22:18
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.[Mar 15:24][John 19:24]​

 

[Saint Steven]

I was reminded of the text in Psalm 22.

Psalm 22:1-2 NIV
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.


Psalm 22:12-15 NIV
Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

These words from the cross have troubled many for centuries. There appears to be several possible explanations for Jesus saying this.

(1) Some claim that he was simply pointing to one of the Psalms as a way of showing others to have faith in God. Sorry, but most of my conservative Christian friends through the years have always told me that context is best used to interpret Scripture. Hence, the context of Jesus' suffering on the cross does not appear to lend itself to him pointing to one of the Psalms.
(2) I recall a Baptist preacher 50 years ago who spoke about these words on Palm Sunday and he said that Jesus felt forsaken on the cross by the Father and this was Jesus' way of expressing his isolation at the moment. While this explanation seems a little better than the first one, it is still not very satisfying for many of us. Even Luther tried to do a sermon on these words, but could not understand how God could forsake God.
(3) Jesus was not God, but merely the Son of God and thus truly did feel forsaken by God on the cross.
(4) Perhaps the best explanation of all is one that many of you will refuse to consider, as it could pose a problem for those who believe that the Holy Spirit protects Scripture from making any errors of significant importance. While doing online research recently, I came across what is reportedly an Aramaic translation of these words and it goes like this: "My God, my God, for this I was destined". I must say that this reported Aramaic translation makes much more sense to me. Now it is true that such a change in Scripture is not really a change that directly impacts salvation, but it is still a significant change from the translations that virtually all of us are used to seeing.

What do the rest of you think of these words from the cross? Is it quite possible that the Greek translation erred in the meaning of Jesus' intent and that this reported Aramaic translation is the accurate one?

Why did Jesus say "My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?"

Well, for one, there is a big difference between making an assertion and asking a question. Secondly, Jesus was referencing Scripture as a fulfillment of prophecy (Psalms 22:1). Thirdly, Jesus also said these words as if it was you and me in His place saying these words. For He was taking on our sins and our punishment.

In fact, when look at Psalms 22, we can see that the response to the first verse where the psalmist cries out the prophetic words, "Why have you forsaken me?" there is an answer in verse 24. Here's the answer to the question of Jesus, the question of the psalmist and the question of every person who has ever felt abandoned by the Father: For he (God the Father) has not despised or disdained the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.

God the Father forsaking His own Son? Impossible! God the Father was "in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself" (2 Corinthians 5:19)! It is possible Jesus may have felt a separation from the Father at the time (But Jesus knew better because of the Scriptures). It seemed like the Father had forsaken Him, but He hadn't! Nor will He ever forsake you (if you have a broken heart before Him).

In short, I would say that Jesus was speaking these words as if it was me or you while the Judgment of sin was being laid upon Him while He was upon the cross before He died and paid the penalty for us. For Jesus needed to be our substitute to pay the penalty for our sin.


Source Used:
Dr. Steve McVey: Did The Father Forsake Jesus On the Cross? No!
(Not all views or beliefs by this author or website may reflect my views or beliefs; I am merely agreeing with the truth in the portion of the article I quoted here).

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

I believe that he was actually, literally forsaken by God. If the Son of God cries something with a loud voice, you better believe he's telling the truth.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

What do the rest of you think of these words from the cross?

When Jesus was on the cross, the sins of all humanity was laid on Him, and the Father has for a moment turned His face from Jesus (this was a punishment and wrath we all should have received for our sins). This was the first time and only time in eternity Jesus didn't feel the Father's love. Jesus of course knew this would happen, but the pain was so great it was something Jesus couldn't have imagined. He knew about it but that's different from experiencing it. Therefore Jesus saying 'why have you forsaken me' doesn't mean that Jesus didn't know, but it was the whole experience that was a shock to Him.

Same applies for example for genesis 6:6 where God said He repented creating humanity. God of course knew all the sins we would create, all the evil and rebellion, but now He experienced it. So even though He perfectly knew, but the sadness was great.

(3) Jesus was not God, but merely the Son of God and thus truly did feel forsaken by God on the cross.

This is a blasphemy. Whoever says that Jesus is not God is not saved, and is crucifying Jesus again and again.

 

[Saint Steven]

I believe that he was actually, literally forsaken by God. If the Son of God cries something with a loud voice, you better believe he's telling the truth.

Actually, he was affirming his role as Messiah by quoting a messianic Psalm. See post #28 and this proof that he was not forsaken.


Psalm 22:24 NIV
For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe that he was actually, literally forsaken by God. If the Son of God cries something with a loud voice, you better believe he's telling the truth.

So if Jesus was forsaken by the Father, then that means the Trinity was fractured. So do you honestly believe there was a point in time when the Trinity was fractured? If so, then that does not make any sense. That would suggest that at one point in time there were two or more Gods.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe that he was actually, literally forsaken by God. If the Son of God cries something with a loud voice, you better believe he's telling the truth.

Jesus was not speaking His own new thoughts. He was quoting from Psalms 22 to reflect what He felt by the very Psalm itself and he quoted the Psalm as proof that He was not actually separated from His Father, too (Despite what He felt).

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

So if Jesus was forsaken by the Father, then that means the Trinity was fractured. So do you honestly believe there was a point in time when the Trinity was fractured? If so, then that does not make any sense. That would suggest that at one point in time there were two or more Gods.

I'm not super duper knowledgeable about this subject but I would guess God the Father forsook him because of the fact that he was made to be sin for us (according to 2 Corinthians 5:21) and God the Father could not have sin in his presence. By the way I don't think you're even saved because you promote works salvation.

 

[Albion]

I believe that he was actually, literally forsaken by God.

Not possible.

He was and is God, for one thing. And his mission on Earth was no surprise event to him.

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

Not possible.

He was and is God, for one thing. And his mission on Earth was no surprise event to him.

So you're saying that Jesus cried out something that wasn't even true? That's weird.

 

[Albion]

So you're saying that Jesus cried out something that wasn't even true?

I'm saying that your statement here was in error.

 

[RDKirk]

Actually, he was affirming his role as Messiah by quoting a messianic Psalm. See post #28 and this proof that he was not forsaken.


Psalm 22:24 NIV
For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

Certainly, Jesus was pointing His listeners to the entire Psalm--which they would be familiar with--not just the first line.

 

[RDKirk]

So you're saying that Jesus cried out something that wasn't even true? That's weird.

Jesus was pointing to the entire Psalm. He could have said, "Remember Psalm 22!" except the Psalms weren't numbered, they were recalled by reciting the first lines.