My friend fell away from Christainity

Theokayman1

Active Member
Jun 13, 2017
92
91
26
Dallas
✟16,666.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"I used to be heavily religious. I have read the whole bible, but I recently took a course on world religions and learned a lot about the aspects of religion that people don't really want to acknowledge. There are soooo many different religions in our world and some of these religions do very radical things for what they believe. We are geared to the beliefs we were raised by, so who is really correct? I believe there is a higher power, because some things are unexplainable, but I don't adhere to organized religion anymore. Look at kids who grow up in foreign countries with no knowledge of Christ. How do they get a free pass to the afterlife without doing the adhereances that everyone else has to do over here? I don't mean to sound negative, but I am a realist. I would love to feel like we are right in our beliefs, but I don't think there is enough evidence to convince me. Especially when we take into consideration the history of earth and mankind."

What would you say to this person?
 

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,678
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I am a realist
I would ask this expert in comparative religeon to explain Jesus's resurrection.
I would also ask him to compare all religeons and to list there differences and to explain the difference between all religeons and Christianity.
That is all religeons require the worshipper to meet the gods conditions.
Christianity say you cannot so recieve as a gift salvation.
 
Upvote 0

Uber Genius

"Super Genius"
Aug 13, 2016
2,919
1,243
Kentucky
✟56,826.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
"I used to be heavily religious. I have read the whole bible, but I recently took a course on world religions and learned a lot about the aspects of religion that people don't really want to acknowledge. There are soooo many different religions in our world and some of these religions do very radical things for what they believe. We are geared to the beliefs we were raised by, so who is really correct? I believe there is a higher power, because some things are unexplainable, but I don't adhere to organized religion anymore. Look at kids who grow up in foreign countries with no knowledge of Christ. How do they get a free pass to the afterlife without doing the adhereances that everyone else has to do over here? I don't mean to sound negative, but I am a realist. I would love to feel like we are right in our beliefs, but I don't think there is enough evidence to convince me. Especially when we take into consideration the history of earth and mankind."

What would you say to this person?
This is what is called a Gish gallop. Someone fires off every objection they have ever come across to a beleif knowing that no one will be able to respond to all of them.

Let us examine some of the claims and see whether they are helpful at understanding what is true about the world or not.

Lots of religions in the world - By implication if there was a real tue religion then the whole world would recognize it.

How many inferences do we have that offer explanations of quantum mechanics?

Over a dozen!

Only one of them is correct or perhaps none of them.

The fact that knowledge is gained over time and people maintain culturally-enforced false beliefs is found throughout history and their is no reason to expect religious Knowledge to get a special exemption.

We are geared to beliefs we are raised by!

This is the genetic fallacy.

The question we are asking is what can be known about God's existence? And then what can be known of the truth of Christian claims and evidence.

Notice how your statement if true, would destroy all knowledge not just religious knowledge. It has nothing to do with the investigation of the truth of Xian claims.

I'm not an exclusivist so the fact that people were born without ever knowing about Jesus in know way keeps them from perceiving God or acting morally as recorded in Roms. 1 and 2 respectively.

They can respond to the limited revelation they have. So God is not so small as to make a cultural barrier so large that people are unable to approach him or be in relationship with him. It is only against a Calvinist understanding that we could paint God as such a cruel despot.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,639
18,537
Orlando, Florida
✟1,260,487.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Politics
US-Democrat
Is your goal to try to win an argument, or to be a witness to God's love? I would say the best thing to do is to pray and accompany your friend where they are at. It is not necessary to try to convince them they are wrong. Sometimes the most powerful thing we can do is listen carefully to other people, even if what they have to say is not pleasant for us and not what we want to hear.

This is what is called a Gish gallop. Someone fires off every objection they have ever come across to a beleif knowing that no one will be able to respond to all of them.

I don't think it's an argument so much as an explanation, a rationalization, as to why somebody is not interested in organized religion. Not being sensitive to this distinction could even be counterproductive.

These objections should challenge us to explore our faith more deeply, and what it really means to us, rather than simply to try to score debate points at somebody else's expense.

It is entirely possible your friend never had a true understanding of Christianity as depicted in his questioning.

That's always possible but then, what exactly is a "true understanding of Christianity"? That's sort of like the No True Scottsman fallacy. The truth is, there are relatively shallow Christian approaches to the faith, and there are ones with more depth, and more sophisticated answers. This friend has decided he doesn't care for the shallow faith he had, it's not answering questions about how to be a Christian in a pluralistic world. That's not necessarily his fault.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
21,175
9,960
The Void!
✟1,132,868.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
This is what is called a Gish gallop. Someone fires off every objection they have ever come across to a beleif knowing that no one will be able to respond to all of them.
...and here I thought it was just called trying to "snow people." ^_^
 
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
21,175
9,960
The Void!
✟1,132,868.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
"I used to be heavily religious. I have read the whole bible, but I recently took a course on world religions and learned a lot about the aspects of religion that people don't really want to acknowledge. There are soooo many different religions in our world and some of these religions do very radical things for what they believe. We are geared to the beliefs we were raised by, so who is really correct? I believe there is a higher power, because some things are unexplainable, but I don't adhere to organized religion anymore. Look at kids who grow up in foreign countries with no knowledge of Christ. How do they get a free pass to the afterlife without doing the adhereances that everyone else has to do over here? I don't mean to sound negative, but I am a realist. I would love to feel like we are right in our beliefs, but I don't think there is enough evidence to convince me. Especially when we take into consideration the history of earth and mankind."

What would you say to this person?

...I would say that a single class on World Religions, all by its little self, does not a truth make! :rolleyes:
 
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
21,175
9,960
The Void!
✟1,132,868.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hey 2Philo, I actually witnessed Duane Gish in a debate at OSU back in 1979 perform the appeal to verbosity for which he is eponymously known.

wow. I bet that was an interesting ear-full to listen to. I won't gush over Gish, but I had to read his book Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record as a class text back in 1989 when I attended ... bible college for a year. ^_^

I've heard of the term 'Gish Gallop,' but I didn't know from whence it came until you just clued us in on it. Thanks for that little tid-bit.
 
Upvote 0

Phil 1:21

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2017
5,869
4,399
United States
✟144,842.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"I used to be heavily religious. I have read the whole bible, but I recently took a course on world religions and learned a lot about the aspects of religion that people don't really want to acknowledge. There are soooo many different religions in our world and some of these religions do very radical things for what they believe. We are geared to the beliefs we were raised by, so who is really correct? I believe there is a higher power, because some things are unexplainable, but I don't adhere to organized religion anymore. Look at kids who grow up in foreign countries with no knowledge of Christ. How do they get a free pass to the afterlife without doing the adhereances that everyone else has to do over here? I don't mean to sound negative, but I am a realist. I would love to feel like we are right in our beliefs, but I don't think there is enough evidence to convince me. Especially when we take into consideration the history of earth and mankind."

What would you say to this person?
Sounds like most of the people I knew from parochial school.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums