My Dimension Challenge

[Tone]

I recall that when it came to Pharaoh, it was God that hardened his heart

Address?

*This means where in the Bible...

 

[Tone]

So basically, you have to believe, then you'll get the evidence you need in order to believe?

Yeah, that sounds to me like it's just saying, "Believe, then you'll lower your standards for evidence, since people generally want to find evidence to support their own views, so you'll be more likely to accept poor evidence and misunderstood evidence if it appears to support the ideas we've told you to accept."

Sounds like foolishness...?

*Sounds like life (unlife rather) apart from the Spirit...

 

[Kylie]

Address?

*This means where in the Bible...

Exodus 9:12

 

[Kylie]

Sounds like foolishness...?

*Sounds like life (unlife rather) apart from the Spirit...

Yes, it is foolish to think that people can just choose to believe, and it is also foolish to think that the evidence they accept once they have been conditioned to accept lower standards of evidence is valid.

 

[Tone]

Yes, it is foolish to think that people can just choose to believe, and it is also foolish to think that the evidence they accept once they have been conditioned to accept lower standards of evidence is valid.

So,you're a fatalist?

 

[Tone]

lower standards of evidence

Lower than what standards?

 

[Kylie]

So,you're a fatalist?

I think it's quite clear that my position is that we should only believe something to be true once we have been provided with evidence to support that position.

Once we choose to believe without valid evidence, we will lower our standard for what we accept as evidence for that thing, since we want our beliefs to be verified. So we'll accept the flimsiest of excuses to think our beliefs are verified, while rejecting the strongest evidence that our beliefs are wrong.

So approaching Scripture with faith that it is true is to accept it as true without first getting the evidence for it. And that is foolish. If the scripture is indeed true, the evidence for it will speak for itself, and there will be no need to just have faith. See the second quote in my signature.

 

[Tone]

Exodus 9:12

Is there any indication of why...and what does this have to do with establishing guidelines for keeping undesirable human institutions in check?

 

[Kylie]

Lower than what standards?

Than the standards required to properly determine something.

For example, if a person believed that there were lizard people in charge of everything, they will take even the flimsiest argument to support that idea and count it as evidence that the lizard people idea is correct. But any evidence to say the lizard people idea is wrong will be dismissed, no matter how strong it is.

 

[Tone]

"Where there is evidence, no one speaks of faith. We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence." — Bertrand Russel

The above ^ is an erroneous definition of faith.

Hebrews 11

"1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

 

[Tone]

Than the standards required to properly determine something.

Where did you get this standard?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Really...I could've sworn that man came up with the "Survival of the fittest" law...

It is not a law, it is an observation about the natural world (phrased colloquially).

 

[Tone]

Is there any indication of why...and what does this have to do with establishing guidelines for keeping undesirable human institutions in check?

Oh wait a minute...wasn't Pharaoh a slave driver...

 

[Tone]

It is not a law, it is an observation about the natural world (phrased colloquially).

Somebody should've informed Hitler...

 

[essentialsaltes]

Somebody should've informed Hitler...

I mean... I guess everyone should be educated about misunderstandings of science, but... Hitler didn't murder Jews because they were unable to propagate their genes. A Jew was (in Goebbel's phrase) "a sworn enemy of the German people".

 

[mnorian]

Mod hat on.
Thread closed by OP's request.
Mod hat off. ​