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My confusion over the Old Law

Discussion in 'For New Christians' started by IMNW, Jun 11, 2017.

  1. IMNW

    IMNW New Member

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    Forgive my ignorance, if I cause offence here then it is due to my poor understanding rather than any wish to anger.
    It was my understanding that Old Testament Law was for the people of Israel specifically. Does the fact that the Old Covenant was aimed towards Israel mean that the Ten Commandments are inapplicable to Christians?

    I seem to have got myself awfully confused here-Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There's 2 Peter 3:18. It's something that doesn't happen all at once and it's a big topic that starts "in the beginning".

    I'd start by asking what does aiming the old covenant mean? As far as I can tell, that covenant was the result of God's relationship with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, with the promises He made with them.
     
  3. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Check out some of the lists in the new testament..the lists of sins that will keep us out of heaven. the warnings are clear and the sins pretty well cover most if not all of the commandments. here is a link to some of them:

    Revelation 22:15; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Timothy 1:9; Hebrews 12:14

    That should tell us they pretty much are in affect, but there are those that will tell you they aren't, or that they can be broken constantly and one can still go to heaven because we are covered by grace alone


    I personally think those are teachings of the Devil to get people sinning, and if someone wants to sin they will find a way to choose that route no matter how ridiculous it sounds to many of us.

    I think the commandments are just that...commandments, and for all people for all times. Sure we can break them, get forgiveness and move on but doing them as a lifestyle will get one into a lot of trouble in the end.

    Stick a round, and/or search the boards, the topic comes up here often enough.
     
  4. longwait

    longwait Active Member

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    We are children of the promise. Spiritual children of Abraham. We are grafted into Israel. When the rich young man asked Jesus what he should do to enter the kingdom of heaven Jesus answered him to keep the 10 commandments. But what fulfils all the commandments is to love God with all your heart, soul and strength and to love your neighbour as you love yourself. I guess if you can keep these two then you can keep all the others.
     
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  5. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    Jesus cried it is finished on the cross. He finished everything necessary for our salvation, that included fullfilling every single requirement of the ceremonial and moral laws.
    We are not bound to follow the ceremonial laws, we don't have a temple etc.
    We are not bound to follow the moral laws, the 10 commandments, but. Jesus said if you love me you will love one another.
    How are you going to show love to other people or that you love Jesus.
    One way is to try to keep the 10 commandments.
     
  6. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    Jesus cried it is finished on the cross. He finished everything necessary for our salvation, that included fullfilling every single requirement of the ceremonial and moral laws.
    We are not bound to follow the ceremonial laws, we don't have a temple etc.
    We are not bound to follow the moral laws, the 10 commandments, but. Jesus said if you love me you will love one another.
    How are you going to show love to other people or that you love Jesus.
    One way is to try to keep the 10 commandments.
     
  7. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    It can be confusing, and unfortunately there is no shortage of divergent views among believers.

    2Cor 3 tells us the letter kills but the spirit gives life, and that our covenant is of the spirit, not the letter. Romans 6-8, 10 shows the futility of keeping law for the sake of justification, how we have died to the Mosaic Law, how we are free of condemnation in Christ, and how love fulfills the law.

    Christ came to fulfill, not abolish, the law. The OT gives us a framework for our faith. We don't kick it away and say it's wrong, we learn from it. Galatians tells us it is a tutor that leads us to Christ. But we are not enslaved by it, to try to earn our salvation. It's been said that the OT is the best commentary on the NT, and that the reverse is true as well.
     
  8. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi IMMW, when I first became a Christian (a little over 30 years ago), I realized how displeasing my life/lifestyle must have been to the Lord up until that point, and I remember thinking that the thing I wanted most of all was to never be displeasing to Him again. The problem was, I wasn't actually sure how to go about that, because I really didn't know what it meant to be "holy" or "righteous" before God (outside of not sinning like I had been doing), and that's where the Law of God comes in . As King David said:

    "How can a young man keep his way pure? By keeping it according to Thy word. Thy word I have treasured in my heart that I may not sin against Thee" ~Psalm 119:9,11

    The Law cannot save us, because none of us can keep it .. cf James 2:10-11. If we could, the Lord would not have had to come here as a man and live a righteous life for us (or die in our stead). But I love God's law, because it tells those of us who are His how we can be pleasing to Him in all that we do/say/think. What could be better than that :)

    *(I'm even one of the crazy few who love the Book of Leviticus ^_^)

    Yours and His,
    David
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  9. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The OT Law as a whole isn't binding on us. But still, basic moral principles don't change. Many people think the 10 commandments show those basic moral principles. Jesus endorses them at least twice. First, Mat 5 (in the Sermon on the Mount) is based on most of the laws. Second, when Jesus was asked how to enter eternal life, he said to obey the commandments. (Mark 10:17–31) and listed them.

    However if you look both at his teachings as a whole and his comments in Mat 5, he emphasized not the letter of the commandments, but the intent that they represent. For that reason you can say that they don't apply to us as law, but rather than we look at the principles behind them. I think that's a perfectly reasonable way to look at the situation, and that it's consistent with Paul.

    However Mark 10 does suggest a continuing role for the 10 commandments, although interpreted non-legalistically. Ultimately I don't think there's much difference between saying that commandments don't apply but the principle behind them do and saying the commandments do apply but should be interpreted according to intent. It's also worth noting that in Mark 10 Jesus was speaking to a Jew.
     
  10. agapebondservant

    agapebondservant New Member

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    I found this short study very helpful and do hope it is a blessing to you also ... may God bless and keep you in His love through the grace and calling of Jesus!
     

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  11. 1watchman

    1watchman Overseer

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    It is interesting to see that all the Ten Commandments are found in the New Testament, except the keeping of the Sabbath; and that is for saints not as law, but as God's standards for the Church. To honor God the saints today need to value those spiritual standards. Forfeiture of blessing is the result of not honoring God, and such a manner will be judged at the "Judgment Seat Of Christ" in Heaven for the saints in a day to come.

    Saints today need to know we are not under the laws, and as "born again" believers (John 3) we are sealed as "children of God" already. The Church is not an extension of the Israelite religion, but a "new testament" of grace, privilege, and responsibility to live for God; and this includes Israelites today who also receive the Savior. The testimony for saints today is as "children of God" and we need to be faithful to please our Father.

    One can see more ministry on this matter at the site: www.biblecounsel.homestead.com if interested in Bible inquiry.
     
  12. DreamerOfTheHeart

    DreamerOfTheHeart Love is the Foundation of Truth

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    It is much more complicated then that. However, I would strongly suggest to keep it simple and stick first and foremost to the words of Christ. Adhere to the teachings of Christ as found in the four gospels everyday in your heart. Then, when you find your salvation is very sure, consider these more difficult questions.

    Do not get waylaid from that path, as the Galatians did, and so very many others have. Not even in the attempt to pursue "the Law", or any other set of laws. As even Paul said of the Law, for those who are in the flesh, "it is spiritual, I do not understand it".

    So, first become spiritual, then come back to it, and you will understand it.

    You become spiritual by staying to the way of the word of Jesus.
     
  13. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historist

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    Deuteronomy 8:3
    And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by everyword that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.

    Matthew 4:4
    But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    GOD is perfect what he said to Noah, Abraham, Moses and the apostles are forever and cannot be changed.
     
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  14. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historist

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    When the Jewish nation rejected the Messiah, the Gospel was spread to all nations. All who believe in the name of Jesus can now become the spiritual descendants of Abraham (Galatians 3:16, 29; Romans 4:16; 9:3-8).

    The apostle Paul calls Christians “the Israel of God” and “the circumcision.” God gave circumcision to Abraham as a symbol of belonging to God's people. When Paul refers to all Christians as “the circumcision,” he reminds us that the Kingdom of God and the covenant promises associated with it were taken from the Jews and passed on to spiritual Israel. This new circumcision is not of the body but of the heart.

    Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder (Matthew 21:43-44).

    Any who permit Christ to transform them and to change their character receive the new name of “Israel,” just as Jacob did thousands of years ago.

    Jesus did not choose 12 disciples by accident. Just as the 12 patriarchs were the founders of ancient Israel, so these 12 men are the foundation stones of new Israel (Matthew 19:28; Luke 22:30). The subsequent choice of 70 others is modeled after the choice of 70 elders by Moses in ancient Israel (Numbers 11:16).

    A Spiritual Tree
    [img data-copyright="CC Felix Francis on Flickr Stripped bombax tree silhouette" itemprop="image" src="http://pictures.amazingdiscoveries.org/TruthMattersImages/2333-tree-sillhouettex320.jpg" alt="Source: Felix Francis." data-description="
    Source:Romans 11:17-24, Paul speaks of the olive tree that represents Israel. The branches (Jews) were broken off because of unbelief and the wild olive shoots (Gentiles) were grafted in to share in the nourishment of the tree.


    For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him (Romans 10:12 NKJV).

    For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus (Galatians 3:26).

    I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you (John 15:5-7 NKJV).

    The new Israel inherits God’s covenant promises. Those who have accepted Christ become the chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God (Compare 1 Peter 2:9-10 with Exodus 19:5-6).

    The human race is in desperate need of redemption. God yearns to forgive and cleanse (John 3:16; 1 Timothy 2:4). It is the role of the Church to carry this news to the world.

    New Covenant Israel
     
  15. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'll give you the short bulleted version answer.

    * The Law was specific to the Hebrews/Israelite's.

    * God chose them as His chosen people and they are the line that would produce Jesus.

    * The law was specific in that it was a covenant that must be kept perfectly. You either perfectly kept the law or you did not.

    * The law is called the schoolmaster to Christ because it shows all of us that no one is righteous in God's eyes. All have broken God's holy laws.

    * Christ fulfilled all of the law when He died having led a perfect life.

    * We are given Christ's righteousness through justification that we do not have to perfectly keep the law to be holy. Christ did that for us.

    * Christ left us with two new commandments; love God and love others. Those two commandments fulfill all of the law and the prophets.

    * The law has been written on our hearts by God. So now we know the commandments through this and the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin.


    So the short answer is that we are held to the two commandments Christ left us with. Not the Law.
     
  16. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historist

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    These two statements appear to be at conflict with each other.

    What is the point of writing them on our hearts if they are not in effect?

    Sin is the transgression of the law.
     
  17. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The idea is that the Old Covenant people did not keep the law so now God has written them on our hearts.

    They are still Holy.
     
  18. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historist

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    And all ten are in effect.

    Heart = Mind
     
  19. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is kind of a loaded question.

    The Old Covenant, as a covenant was an agreement between the Hebrews/Israelite's and God. We, Gentiles were never part of that covenant and so in essence, the 10 Commandments were never for us and are not included in our covenant, the New Covenant.

    Jesus gives us two new commandments in our New Covenant. However, these two commandments when kept perfectly, fulfill all the law (which includes the 10 Commandments) and the prophets. So, in that sense, if we are to follow Jesus two commandments, that includes all that is holy which includes the 10, not directly but indirectly as they are holy.

    We are held to our covenant which includes Jesus two new commandments. That is why Christ wrote His law on our hearts.

    Does that make sense?
     
  20. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    THE THREEFOLD USE OF THE LAW
    by R. C. Sproul*
    Every Christian wrestles with the question, how does the Old Testament law relate to my life? Is the Old Testament law irrelevant to Christians or is there some sense in which we are still bound by portions of it? As the heresy of antinomianism becomes ever more pervasive in our culture, the need to answer these questions grows increasingly urgent.

    The Reformation was founded on grace and not upon law. Yet the law of God was not repudiated by the Reformers. John Calvin, for example, wrote what has become known as the “Threefold Use of the Law” in order to show the importance of the law for the Christian life.

    The first purpose of the law is to be a mirror. On the one hand, the law of God reflects and mirrors the perfect righteousness of God. The law tells us much about who God is. Perhaps more important, the law illumines human sinfulness. Augustine wrote, “The law orders, that we, after attempting to do what is ordered, and so feeling our weakness under the law, may learn to implore the help of grace.”2 The law highlights our weakness so that we might seek the strength found in Christ. Here the law acts as a severe schoolmaster who drives us to Christ.

    A second purpose for the law is the restraint of evil. The law, in and of itself, cannot change human hearts. It can, however, serve to protect the righteous from the unjust. Calvin says this purpose is “by means of its fearful denunciations and the consequent dread of punishment, to curb those who, unless forced, have no regard for rectitude and justice.”3 The law allows for a limited measure of justice on this earth, until the last judgment is realized.

    The third purpose of the law is to reveal what is pleasing to God. As born-again children of God, the law enlightens us as to what is pleasing to our Father, whom we seek to serve. The Christian delights in the law as God Himself delights in it. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). This is the highest function of the law, to serve as an instrument for the people of God to give Him honor and glory.

    By studying or meditating on the law of God, we attend the school of righteousness. We learn what pleases God and what offends Him. The moral law that God reveals in Scripture is always binding upon us. Our redemption is from the curse of God’s law, not from our duty to obey it. We are justified, not because of our obedience to the law, but in order that we may become obedient to God’s law. To love Christ is to keep His commandments. To love God is to obey His law.

    Summary
    1. The church today has been invaded by antinomianism, which weakens, rejects, or distorts the law of God.
    2. The law of God is a mirror of God’s holiness and our unrighteousness. It serves to reveal to us our need of a savior.
    3. The law of God is a restraint against sin.
    4. The law of God reveals what is pleasing and what is offensive to God.
    5. The Christian is to love the law of God and to obey the moral law of God.

    Biblical passages for reflection:
    Psalms 19:7-11
    Psalms 119:9-16
    Romans 7:7-25
    Romans 8:3-4
    1 Corinthians 7:19
    Galatians 3:24

    *(The above excerpt was taken from the book: Essential Truths of the Christian Faith, Sproul, R.C.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  21. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi again IMNW, with specific regard to unbelievers, I thought I should mention this as well. The Law was given to show all (both Jews and Greeks) how sinful we truly are, how helpless we are to obey it .. James 2:10-11, and how much, therefore, we are all in need of a Savior. The Apostle Paul gives us the primary reason for the Law (be it the Law of Moses, or simply the law that God writes in the heart of each man/woman as He forms us in the womb ~for those who do not know/possess the Mosaic Law, that is~ .. Romans 2:12-16; Psalm 139:13-14), which he describes as our παιδαγωγός [paidagogos] (which translated means a "harsh tutor").

    Galatians 3
    22 Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
    23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
    24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
    25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

    So, the principle purpose of Law of God in the life of an unbeliever isn't to show them how to be righteous, rather, it's to show them that they can't be :eek: (& by so doing, drive them to the feet of the Savior :amen:).

    In Christ,
    David



    "If a law had been given that could impart life,
    then righteousness would indeed have
    been based upon law"

    Galatians 3:21
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
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