Pethesedzao
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My commentary on Daniel 9:24
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
baberean2,
1. The KOH and the KOG message Jesus taught was the physical kingdom and spiritual forgiveness of sins was the requirement for the nation of Israel to make entrance into the physical KOH reign on earth Matthew 4:17; Matthew 6:33; Luke 17:19-20; Matthew 10:6-7.
2. This was not a message to the New Testament church Matthew 10:6-7.
Also, Matthew 5:13b. Israel has been trodden down under the feet of men not the church. Matthew 16:18; the gates of hell shall never prevail against the church.
Matthew 23:37-39; Israel’s house is left desolate because of her rejection.
V 39; For I say unto you, ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say Blessed is he that comets in the name of the Lord. The context is the physical nation of Israel not the church.
The nation of physical Israel will be in the coming KOH at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4.
The Mountain of the Lord’s house, in the mountains shall be exalted above the hills is physical Israel and all nation shall flow into it which are the gentile nations.
The house of the Lord God of Jacob, Zion and Jerusalem are all in physical Israel.
This will happen in the last days.
Isaiah 9:6-7; the child born was the messiah, the government and the increase of it and no ending to it and the Davidic throne and judging justice and judgement are all a part of the nation of Israel not the church.
Ezekiel 37:24; David will be King over Israel and they shall have one shepherd who will be Christ.
It talks about Israel walking in his judgements, observing his statutes and do them. Israel will dwell in the land of Jacob where the fathers have dwelt and where Israel will dwell and their children, and their children’s children forever. This show physical posterity forever and David will be their prince forever.
The covenant of peace will be everlasting and the sanctuary will be in the midst of them.
God’s tabernacle will be with them God will be there God and Israel will be his people.
And the heathen shall know that the Lord sanctifies Israel when the sanctuary shall be in the midst of them forever.
There is no church in these context which are future last days which shows that the nation of Israel will be saved and shows that they were not forgotten by God because of their rejection of Christ ministry.
So your spiritual Jew theory is taken out of context.
The church is promised rulership in the physical kingdom 2 Timothy 2:12. If we suffer we shall reign.
Physical Israel will have a different calling explained in Ezekiel 37. Jerry Kelso
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Hi jgr,
So....are you telling me that the Body of Christ will be on the New Earth and the Old Testament saints will be in the New Jerusalem above them?
Marilyn.
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It is best to call it "the 7year 70th week" (forthcoming). Not 7 years tribulation period. Nor tribulation period.
Why so?
Because for most the first half of the 7 years, the Jews and the world will be thinking (in error) they are living in the beginning years of messianic age of peace and safety.
1Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
I would break it down as:
the 7 years 70th week - overall.
the first 3 years or so, (mis)perceived messianic age.
the beginning of the Day of the Lord - beginning late first half of the 7 years.
the great tribulation - beginning 1335 days before Jesus returns (Daniel 12:12)
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Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis
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How do you identify physical Israel?
Do you carry a portable realtime DNA spit kit?
From the beginning of covenant history, Israel was comprised of both ethnic and nonethnic Israelites.
Genesis 17
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
God's covenant criteria have only ever been faith and obedience.
AKA spiritual DNA.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
baberean2,
1. Well, I see you can’t dispute Isaiah and Ezekiel.
2. John 10:16 was talking to the Jews and the lost sheep of Israel was his mission in the KOH and the KOG Matthew 10:6-7.
3. In the future in Ezekiel God will be looking for unbelieving Jews to become one fold with one shepherd.
John’s allusion is to the lost sheep of Israel John 10:6-7. They were to be witnesses to the unbelieving Jews.
Paul said in Galatians to Abraham and his seed were the promises made which the old Covenant was made to was Israel.
4. In John 10, not being plucked out of God’s hand was the election of Israel once the whole nation repented Romans 12:25-29. The gifts and callings are without repentance.
5. At the same time time the allusion in John 10:16 is to the gentiles and we are one in Christ today known as the church. The difference is we are under the New Covenant.
David in Psalms talks about the preservation of the Davidic Throne according to the Jewish nation as well as Ezekiel.
6. Matthew recorded that another nation would bring forth the fruits. This was and is the church in the spiritual fruit under the NC.
This has nothing to do with Israel’s role in KoH and it is present now.
2 Timothy 2:12 if we suffer we shall reign. The church will be in kingdom in rulership positions but not at the head of the nations as such as Israel. Isaiah 2:2-4.
7. The KOG is the universal Kingdom of which the earth is the smaller part of the universal kingdom.
There are things in the earthly kingdom that cannot be said for the physical kingdom but in the earthly kingdom can be expressed by the larger KoG for the earth is a contained in the physical KoG.
An illustration is; the physical earth is inside the circle of the KoG but the KoG is not inside of the earth’s circle.
8. Matthew 19:23 is talking about how hard it is for a rich man to enter the physical KoH for they were never told to seek the KoH spiritual, only the spiritual KOG Matthew 6:33; Luke 17:19-20.
Verse 24 the example of how harder for a rich man to go the eye of a needle is a spiritual example and therefore it is talking about the spiritual aspect of the KOG Matthew 6:33; Luke 17:19-21.
Jerry Kelso
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From the letter to the Hebrews:
Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, (Mount Sinai)
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
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Hi jgr,
Well we saw that there were those of the nations on the earth, and then those Old Testament saints in the city, the New Jerusalem. Two different places, with two groups of people, (1. nations. 2. OT saints). All in God`s family but in the different areas of God`s great kingdom.
Marilyn.
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Hi BABerean,
You seemed to have missed out highlighting a group there, bro. - `the spirits of just men made perfect.`
These are the ones, we are told in Hebrews 11 that looked for a city, and we know that is the New Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from God. The Body of Christ, however stays in the third heaven, Christ`s seat of authority and power over all God`s great kingdom.
Marilyn.
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Hi Marilyn,
I'm not aware of any Scripture that excludes the NT saints from the New Jerusalem.
So I'd expect all the saints of all the ages to be found there.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
From the letter to the Hebrews:
Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, (Mount Sinai)
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
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baberean2,
1. Once again you cannot debunk the context of the scriptures I gave that shows the clear distinction of the nation of Israel in the KOH 1Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-7; Ezekiel 37:24-28; Isaiah 2:2-4:9:6-7 separate from the church of the firstborn Hebrews 12:22-24; Ephesians 2:14-15;3:1-6.
The fellow heirs is about the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection not the rulership of the kingdom.
The whole mystery of the gospel is for Jews and gentiles to become one new man on the same level ground spiritually in the body of Christ Ephesians 2:14-15;3:1-16.
Galatians 3:14: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. This is salvation not rulership in the kingdom.
V15-29 is all about salvation not rulership in the kingdom.
2. These are Jewish New Testament believers.
They are exhorted to run the race with patience, endure chastening, for they are not under the old covenant in Moses day.
God shook the earth in Moses day and will do it again in the millennium kingdom. Read all of Hebrews 12.
The church will be raptured at the beginning of the tribulation Revelation 4:1. The church will be at the marriage supper of the lamb which will include all saints of the tribulation in the first half Revelation 6:9-11-15:1-2 the second half martyrs that are in the 1st resurrection Revelation 20:4-6. We will all come out of Heaven to make war at Armageddon Revelation 19:11-15.
You are just deducing wrong for all the wrong reasons. Jerry Kelso
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Hi jgr,
God tells us that he has provided something better for us, the Body of Christ.
better - Greek word `kreitton,` meaning better, nobler, from `kratos` meaning dominion.
Thus we see that God will provide a better dominion for us.
`God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.` (Heb. 11: 40)
And that dominion is in the third heaven with the Lord where His seat of authority and power is. The Body of Christ will rule and reign with the Lord there, and then in the universal area those in the New Jerusalem, (OT saints) will rule over the earth from there. Each have a dominion and rule under the Lord. Each work in harmony together in all of God`s great kingdom.
`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)
There is the Lord`s own throne, His seat of authority and power with His Body of Christ, ruling and reigning over all.
Marilyn.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
jgr,
1. God knows the DNA.
When it says Elijah shall first come and restore all things, that will be one of the things that he does according to the Jews.
But the truth is that in Revelation 7 are the 144,000 Jews from all the assigned tribes. This proves the Jewish nation will be there. DNA: Jewish.
2. Israel did have Jews and proselytism gentiles. They then became Jews by salvation and following Judaism in their theocracy.
3. Every age had to have faith and obedience in the things contained in the revelation of the covenant they lived under.
We have different nationalities who are citizens that are born here or naturalized. But this a republic not a full blown theocracy such as in the form of the Jewish nation of Israel. God had Israel to be kind to the stranger at the gate and at the same time they were to kill all of the gentile nation including the women and children so they wouldn’t grow up and come back after Israel.
4. The Jews were not to intermix with gentiles overall.
Jesus called the phonecian woman a dog for this reason. At the same time he was Messiah and because of her faith she was forgiven.
They still proselyted as seen in the early church on the DOP Acts 2:10.
In the vision of the clean and and unclean was because Peter was a Jew and wasn’t supposed to mix the clean with the unclean Acts 10. These were after the resurrection.
Though the New Covenant was ratified at Calvary it didn’t manifest it self until afterwards because of gradual revelation. The Bible classes the Jews, Gentiles and the church as the classes of the people in the world.
God has always provided a way for gentiles to be saved during the Old Testament and the New Testament.
That doesn’t mean that the nation of Israel doesn’t have Jewish DNA.
The Jews have a DNA today and will in the tribulation Ezekiel 37:24-28, Revelation 7.
Spiritual DNA alone has nothing to do with the gifts and callings of Israel are without repentance and are forever Romans 11:25-29 in the KOH. Jerrykelso
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If you cannot see that Christ is both Lord(ruler) and Messiah(savior) on the Day of Pentecost, then we have little hope that you can abandon John Nelson Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine, that came to America about the time of the Civil War.
Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on that day when about 3,000 Israelites became a part of the New Covenant Church.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Your Two Kingdoms of God error is exposed in the scripture below.
Ignore this passage and maybe you can make your doctrine work.
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
.
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Hi Marilyn,
Here is the Hebrews 11:40 contextual meaning of "better":
a. more useful, more serviceable: 1 Corinthians 11:17; 1 Corinthians 12:31 R G; Hebrews 11:40
There are two other earlier Hebrews references that clarify what that "something better" is:
Hebrews 7:22
By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
It is the better testament/covenant, God's New Will and Testament written in the Blood of the Divine Mediator, His Son.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
1. They were Israel from before the Cross.
The Gentiles didn’t start to really come into the picture until 7-10 years later.
You have got to understand gradual revelation.
2. The mystery of the New Testament church was ratified at Calvary when the wall of partition was broken down Ephesians 2:14-15.
But the gentiles being manifested as part of the mystery of the Church wasn’t til 7-10 years later.
You just think because it was just Israel on the Day of Pentecost the future picture of their calling was not there’s no more. You’re wrong.
3. Once again you do not see the full context like I have already explained. That is why you keep running into a wall.
It doesn’t really matter if want to interchange them, it doesn’t do away with the the fact that they were never told to seek the KoH for salvation Matthew 6:33;Luke 17:19-21.
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Based on the passage below, your timing is wrong.
Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.(Based on Galatians 4:25, Mount Sinai is in Arabia. Some have speculated that Paul may have gone to Mount Sinai.)
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
Paul's main ministry was to the Gentiles, based on verse 16.
Paul went to see Peter about 3 years after his conversion.
Not 7-10, years later.
.
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