My commentary on Daniel 9:24

[jgr]

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Which of my three questions does that answer?

 

[Calminian]

Hi Marilyn,

You haven't yet defined who "Jews" are. You haven't specified the criteria by which God identifies and distinguishes them.

So you cannot know who comes through the tribulation, because you have not identified who enters it.

Here again are the legitimate choices. I've included a fifth relating to the discussion with Douggg.

1. Jewish DNA
2. Jewish religion
3. Jewish culture
4. Residence within the land of Israel
5. Faith in the Son of God unto salvation

Those who are ethnic Israel—descendants of Jacob, or those who convert to the culture of Israel and adopt the Mosaic law. This is always how they've been defined, all throughout their history. You guy try to implement man's wisdom to define them out of existence. You remind me of those who reject Genesis based on man's wisdom. Very similar mindset.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

You haven't yet defined who "Jews" are. You haven't specified the criteria by which God identifies and distinguishes them.

So you cannot know who comes through the tribulation, because you have not identified who enters it.

Here again are the legitimate choices. I've included a fifth relating to the discussion with Douggg.

1. Jewish DNA
2. Jewish religion
3. Jewish culture
4. Residence within the land of Israel
5. Faith in the Son of God unto salvation

Hi jgr,

God says whom He is talking to - Israel.

`The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel .....For I am the Lord, I do not change; therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.....and all nations will call you blessed, for you will be a delightful land, says the Lord of Hosts.....Then those (of Israel) who feared the Lord ....They shall be Mine....and I will spare them.` (Malachi 1: 1, 3: 6 & 16 & 17)

Clearly we can see the distinction between Israel and the other nations, and then between those in Israel who fear the Lord.

Marilyn.

 

[Douggg]

Thus God's criterion for determining who He includes in Israel is that the individual must reside within the land of Israel.

What if I can't afford to relocate?

What if the govenment rejects my relocation application?

What if I don't want to relocate because the dispens tell me that I have a 2/3 probability of being slaughtered when the end time arrives?

Am I out of luck?

Your thinking is irrational in its presumptions to start with. Why would anyone come up with that off the wall type questioning, unless they know their position is not real?

I answered all three questions (actually four by count) by quoting to you Matthew 10:5-6 regarding others living in the land beside the children of Israel - the disciples were told by Jesus not to go them, but the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus's people were the Jews, that's who the disciples were told to go to regarding the Kingdom of God was at hand.

Jesus of Nazerth, King of the Jews. John 1:11, He came into his own, and his own received him not.

When are you going to stop with all the irrational logic in order to divert away from Ezekiel 39:21-29, Jesus Himself speaking in the text, showing that the church is not Israel and that gentiles have not become Jews?

The historist view, the preterist view (full and partial), the self labeled new covenant movement theology view, have all been proven wrong by Ezekiel 39:21-29.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Because it shows how you take already fulfilled prophecies, rewrite them and use them to predict the future with.

Dave if you say all is fulfilled that someone who believed Israel would be regathered and get national sovereignty and be hated by all the world and be able to rebuild their temple at a time when a one world government was forming at a time a one world cashless society is planned at a time a one world PC morality was unifying the worlds religions you should be able to show how ridiculous it would be to think those thing could ever come into alignment.... yet they are...

 

[jgr]

Hi jgr,

God says whom He is talking to - Israel.

`The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel .....For I am the Lord, I do not change; therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.....and all nations will call you blessed, for you will be a delightful land, says the Lord of Hosts.....Then those (of Israel) who feared the Lord ....They shall be Mine....and I will spare them.` (Malachi 1: 1, 3: 6 & 16 & 17)

Clearly we can see the distinction between Israel and the other nations, and then between those in Israel who fear the Lord.

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

You haven't yet defined who "Israel" is. You haven't specified the criteria by which God identifies and distinguishes those who belong to Israel.

Reference the five criteria in the earlier post.

 

[jgr]

Your thinking is irrational in its presumptions to start with. Why would anyone come up with that off the wall type questioning, unless they know their position is not real?

I answered all three questions (actually four by count) by quoting to you Matthew 10:5-6 regarding others living in the land beside the children of Israel - the disciples were told by Jesus not to go them, but the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus's people were the Jews, that's who the disciples were told to go to regarding the Kingdom of God was at hand.

Jesus of Nazerth, King of the Jews. John 1:11, He came into his own, and his own received him not.

When are you going to stop with all the irrational logic in order to divert away from Ezekiel 39:21-29, Jesus Himself speaking in the text, showing that the church is not Israel and that gentiles have not become Jews?

The historist view, the preterist view (full and partial), the self labeled new covenant movement theology view, have all be proven wrong by Ezekiel 39:21-29.

Every one of the three questions represents a plausible scenario.

However, since we're making no progress in answering them, there's no point in continuing.

 

[jgr]

Those who are ethnic Israel—descendants of Jacob, or those who convert to the culture of Israel and adopt the Mosaic law. This is always how they've been defined, all throughout their history. You guy try to implement man's wisdom to define them out of existence. You remind me of those who reject Genesis based on man's wisdom. Very similar mindset.

Finally, someone who understands the definition of "criteria".

Your claim, correct me if I'm wrong, is that God identifies His Chosen People either by their Jewish ethnicity (DNA), or by their Jewish religious practice (historically Judaism, today Talmudism).

Is that correct?

 

[bèlla]

the church is not Israel and that gentiles have not become Jews?

This.

 

[Dave L]

Dave if you say all is fulfilled that someone who believed Israel would be regathered and get national sovereignty and be hated by all the world and be able to rebuild their temple at a time when a one world government was forming at a time a one world cashless society is planned at a time a one world PC morality was unifying the worlds religions you should be able to show how ridiculous it would be to think those thing could ever come into alignment.... yet they are...

This is not a fulfillment of prophecy. Only a misunderstanding of the NT's description of Israel can lead to this. All of the promises made to Abraham are Yes in Jesus, and NO to those who reject him.

 

[BABerean2]

We agree on that, but you ignored the bigger point that there is such a thing as unbelieving Israel. You guys get really dodgy about this for some reason.

When we ask what is the standard for someone to be a part of unbelieving Israel today the answers we get are "dodgy", based on the facts found below.


Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel, based on the first verse of the New Testament.

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.


Paul said to avoid using genealogies in our faith below.

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.


How much of Abraham's or Jacob's DNA does a person need to be a part of "unbelieving Israel" today, by your standard?

How much of that DNA do I need to claim a piece of land in the modern Middle East?

.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

You haven't yet defined who "Jews" are. You haven't specified the criteria by which God identifies and distinguishes them.

So you cannot know who comes through the tribulation, because you have not identified who enters it.

Here again are the legitimate choices. I've included a fifth relating to the discussion with Douggg.

1. Jewish DNA
2. Jewish religion
3. Jewish culture
4. Residence within the land of Israel
5. Faith in the Son of God unto salvation

Hi jgr,

I thought I did spell it out. I believe God`s word tells us that the people of Israel who are His at the end of the tribulation, are those of Jewish DNA, and who `fear the LORD,` (God). (Mal. 1: 1 & 3: 16 & 17)
The scriptures I posted.

Marilyn.

 

[jgr]

Hi jgr,

I thought I did spell it out. I believe God`s word tells us that the people of Israel who are His at the end of the tribulation, are those of Jewish DNA, and who `fear the LORD,` (God). (Mal. 1: 1 & 3: 16 & 17)
The scriptures I posted.

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

The following sheds light on the requirement for Jewish DNA:

Genesis 17
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

It declares that Jewish DNA was not a requirement to be in covenant relationship with God.

There is no record in Scripture that He ever changed His mind.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

The following sheds light on the requirement for Jewish DNA:

Genesis 17
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

It declares that Jewish DNA was not a requirement to be in covenant relationship with God.

There is no record in Scripture that He ever changed His mind.

Hi jgr,

Yes I realise that Gentiles could come into Israel and be part of the blessing to Israel. However the fact is that the majority of the people will have the Jewish DNA.

`I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication;...` (Zech. 12: 10)

Marilyn.

 

[bèlla]

Hi jgr,

Yes I realise that Gentiles could come into Israel and be part of the blessing to Israel. However the fact is that the majority of the people will have the Jewish DNA.

`I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication;...` (Zech. 12: 10)

Marilyn.

The tree is Jewish. The root is Jewish. If God wanted to build a foundation with Gentiles He would have done so. But He chose the Jews instead.

 

[Dave L]

The tree is Jewish. The root is Jewish. If God wanted to build a foundation with Gentiles He would have done so. But He chose the Jews instead.

All but Abraham and Ishmael were foreigners, over 300, when God founded Abraham's covenant seed through circumcision.

 

[jgr]

Hi jgr,

Yes I realise that Gentiles could come into Israel and be part of the blessing to Israel. However the fact is that the majority of the people will have the Jewish DNA.

`I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication;...` (Zech. 12: 10)

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

The issue is not how many people have Jewish DNA.

The issue is whether Jewish DNA has ever been a requirement to be in covenant relationship with God.

From Genesis 17:12, we see that it has not.

 

[bèlla]

All but Abraham and Ishmael were foreigners, over 300, when God founded Abraham's covenant seed through circumcision.

If it is but a soup of sorts with many ingredients melded together that all enjoy. Why is it necessary to argue, debate, and insist that you have usurped what existed and now walk in the fullness of what they had?

Why do you want the label, honor, and the blessing that accompanies its utterance? Why do you need it?

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

The issue is not how many people have Jewish DNA.

The issue is whether Jewish DNA has ever been a requirement to be in covenant relationship with God.

From Genesis 17:12, we see that it has not.

Hi jgr,

The covenant the God made with Abraham was for his descendants. God said to Abraham....

`And I will establish my covenant between me and your DESCENDANTS, after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant to be God to you and your descendants after you.` (Gen. 17: 7)

Marilyn.

 

[jgr]

Hi jgr,

The covenant the God made with Abraham was for his descendants. God said to Abraham....

`And I will establish my covenant between me and your DESCENDANTS, after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant to be God to you and your descendants after you.` (Gen. 17: 7)

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

Yes.

And those who were not his descendants were included.

Genesis 17
23 And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.
27 And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.