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Featured My commentary on Daniel 9:24

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    Jesus speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29 ____________________________________________________________________
    1. to finish the transgression - Daniel's people went into 2000 years of dispersion into the nations because they rejected Jesus as their King of Israel. Jesus speaking....

    Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

    _____________________________________________________________________
    2. to make an end of sins - Jesus does not return until Jerusalem says to Him, blessed is he who come in the name of the Lord. And that they have received the gospel Revelation 12:10.

    Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    _____________________________________________________________________
    3. and to make reconciliation for iniquity - again, Jesus speaking in Ezekiel 39:26....

    Ezekiel 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
    _____________________________________________________________________

    4. and to bring in everlasting righteousness - the Kingdom of God will be setup on earth at Jesus's return. He will rule the nations with a rod of iron.

    Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    5. to seal up the vision and prophecy - mystery of God will be finished in the days when the 7th trumpet angel sounds. Which includes completion of Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Daniel 9, Daniel 11, Daniel 12, Ezekiel 39, Psalms 2.

    Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

    _______________________________________________________________________

    6. to anoint the most Holy - God anoints Jesus as the King of the earth, on the day of His Return.

    Psalms 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
    7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
    _______________________________________________________________

    Ezekiel 39 proves that the church has not become Israel, nor gentiles turned into Jews.


    Jesus was a Jew as His mother was a Jew.

    Who are the Jews?

    John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.


    To this day, the Jews reject Jesus as the messiah, and rejected him as their King of Israel back when that generation of Israel crucified Him. In Ezekiel 39, in the end times, during the 70th week of Daniel 9, the Jews who went into the 2000 years of diaspora, will embrace Jesus as the messiah. It is plain from the text of Ezekiel 39:21-29, Jesus is not addressing the church as Israel.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
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  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But.....when Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, he abolished physical unbelieving Israel and the physical unbelieving Jews. Believing Israel remained. The unbelievers broken off and replaced by believing gentiles. So all the promises of God made to Abraham are YES in Jesus. And NO to those who reject him.
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    It is not talking about who is or is not Israel. Romans 11 is talking about who inherits the Kingdom of God.

    Ezekiel 39:21-29 makes it clear that the church is not Israel. And that gentiles have not become Jews.
     
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  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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  5. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    Since marriage is a metaphor to God of unity and commitment it might be God has two brides the church and national Israel. Remember Jacob labored 7 years for Rachael and ended up with Leah and then labored another 7 years for his intended. If you read all the passages about national Israel God has certainly put them away until the time of their redemption. Spiritual Israel exists as well so the debate is not about the new covenant but about are the prophecies that are specific about these events literal or figurative. The literal sense makes sense and is lining up right now. This is the greatest evidence that this view is correct. The scriptures say not to be led into every wind of doctrine so those who believe the literal sense have all come up largely with the same ideas by studying. Those who believe this replacement concept have to be led to it. The many truths they hold are used to foment a concept that God did not mean what he said but really means this. The whole Rev 20 idea that 1000 years does not mean a 1000 years. It is mentioned 6 times. It refers to chapter 13 and takes that passage literally in referring to those who did not take the mark and were beheaded during the 42 months the beast has power. It says Satan is bound and the dead lived who were beheaded and reigned on the earth for the 1000 years with Jesus. Earlier the souls beheaded cried out how long until we are avenged and Jesus answered until the full number of martyrs came in. In 70 AD there was no mark of the beast with beheading of Christians who refused to take it and nothing happened 42 months after the daily sacrfice was stopped. 2 Thes says the man of sin will be revealed in the Temple declaring he is GoD. REv 13 and Dan 7 both describe the same guy at the same time and he is destroyed at the coming of the LORD. This is when the kingdom has come and Satan is bound. I think those who hold your view are in some danger as the warning in Rev is not to ad or take away from the words of this prophecy.

    So one of us must be guilty of this. I am believing it is literal and you are holding it as symbolic. Lets see what happens. But why is the nation of Israel and Jerusalem the troublesome stone to the world and why are they ready to resume the daily sacrifice if this be not the very words coming to pass? This world is very wicked and certainly influenced by Satanic forces and the one world government is coming along with a one world financial system and a one world unification of faiths is being pushed too.
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    1) the kingdom is spiritual, not physical. 2) it began with the first advent and culminates in the new heavens and earth at the second advent. 3) only believers in Christ are biblical Israel. 4) There is no gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks. 5) Jesus fulfilled the 70th week offering himself in the middle of it as the only real sacrifice for sins. 6) the great tribulation happened in 70 AD and was Jewish, not gentile in scope. 7) the book of Revelation covers the time between the first and second advent followed by a view of the New Heavens and earth. If you can get these facts straight, you will begin to understand eschatology.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Ezekiel 39 is an extension of Ezekiel 38 regarding the invasion of Israel by Gog/Magog. Gog/Magog takes place in the latter years

    Ezekiel 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

    On a time line, Gog/Magog is not very far away; and will take place right before the 7 years 70th week of Daniel 9.

    How do I know? Because the first half of Ezekiel 39 deals with the destruction of Gog's army and the clean up of the land, and the burning of the weapons for 7 years. Ezekiel 39:1-16.

    The 7 years follow the feast on Gog's army in Ezekiel 39:4. At the end of the 7 years is another feast on dead bodies, but that feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20 corresponds to Revelation 19:17-18.

    In Ezekiel 39:21-29 is Jesus speaking in the text, having returned to this earth.
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Right, Gog and Magog are going to raid Israel with spears and horses and steel their cattle?
     
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Dave, your view does not correspond to Ezekiel 39:21-29, Jesus Himself speaking in the text.
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Dave, you have to know that is one of most irrational arguments ever.
     
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Spears? Horses? to steal their Cattle? And you are a literalist?
     
  12. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The restoration of Israel (resurrection of believers on the last day) into the new heavens and earth completes all prophetic loose ends. The Church under the New Covenant fulfills the rest.
     
  13. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    Rev was written after 70AD.... The facts you are stating are assumed. The beast in Rev 13 is destroyed at the coming of the LORD. The kingdom does come to earth and it is shown the LORD is king over all the earth in Zech 14 when the Mt of Olives splits in two on a day Israel is being overrun the LORD fights and saves them then and melts the enemies. A new river forms and it flows year round. The nations that are left must keep the feast of Tabernacle or they get no rain. In 70AD Israel was destroyed the LORD did not come and melt the enemies. Many places the covenant with the land is restated with the nation of Israel and the land. You have been led to these conclusions by accepting the foundation of historical fulfillment as a fact. This is not true and like a math equation if you miss a step you come out with the wrong answer. Is Israel a reproach of the nations today? Is Israel being bereaved and bereaving other nations today? Ezekiel 36 speaks of a day when the mountains of Israel will be inhabited. God declares that He will remove the reproach of the nations and neither Israel or the nations will bereave each other any more. God speaks of a people gathered back into the land from all the nations in which He scattered them. He declares they profaned His name in all the nations where they were exiled. God says He is bringing them back to be hallowed in their sight and He does this for His own names sake. He says he will put his Spirit within them and He will be their God and they will be His people. This is when Israel is saved and believe upon Jesus when he returns. This and many passages like this cannot be the church or the new Jerusalem.
     
  14. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What are the criteria that God will use to determine who is the Israel that will be saved?

    1. Jewish DNA
    2. Jewish religion
    3. Jewish culture
    4. Faith in the Son of God unto salvation

    ?
     
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Interpretations only. Nothing that accounts for Jesus' teachings on the kingdom and Paul's teaching on Israel.
     
  16. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    You built your own wall and cannot see over the top. Every argument that shows prophecy proclaiming a definite destiny and specific events you bring back to the circle of scriptures that make your wall and the wall is all. Isiah 62 speaks of the day of vengeance of God after proclaiming the acceptable year of the LORD. In this day of vengeance it is specific about Zion and makes many statements of what is to be.
    To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,
    And the day of vengeance of our God;
    To comfort all who mourn,
    3 To console those who mourn in Zion,
    To give them beauty for ashes,
    The oil of joy for mourning,
    The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
    That they may be called trees of righteousness,
    The planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified.” They mourn when the look upon the pierced body of Jesus who as he said they would not see Him until they say blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD. The Jews are not saved by any other means that the new covenant. They say in the day the LORD comes Zech 14 teh LORD is one... This is the Joseph moment when like Joseph Jesus is revealed to them. they in Zion weep knowing the guilt of rejecting Jesus all these years and they will fear and weep like Joseph.s brothers. This is when Jesus brings in the joy and consoles them.

    It is as Hosea said
    8 Now when she had weaned Lo-Ruhamah, she conceived and bore a son. 9 Then God said:
    “Call his name Lo-Ammi,[fn]
    For you are not My people,
    And I will not be your God.
    “Yet the number of the children of Israel
    Shall be as the sand of the sea,
    Which cannot be measured or numbered.
    And it shall come to pass
    In the place where it was said to them,
    ‘You are not My people,’[fn]
    There it shall be said to them,
    You are sons of the living God.’
    11 Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel
    Shall be gathered together,
    And appoint for themselves one head;
    And they shall come up out of the land,
    For great will be the day of Jezreel!

    Says the LORD,
    That you will call Me ‘My Husband,’[fn]
    And no longer call Me ‘My Master,’[fn]
    17 For I will take from her mouth the names of the Baals,
    And they shall be remembered by their name no more.
    18 In that day I will make a covenant for them
    With the beasts of the field,
    With the birds of the air,
    And with the creeping things of the ground.
    Bow and sword of battle I will shatter from the earth,
    To make them lie down safely.
    19 “I will betroth you to Me forever;
    Yes, I will betroth you to Me
    In righteousness and justice,
    In lovingkindness and mercy;
    20 I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness,
    And you shall know the LORD.

    1 Then the LORD said to me, “Go again, love a woman who is loved by a lover[fn] and is committing adultery, just like the love of the LORD for the children of Israel, who look to other gods and love the raisin cakes of the pagans.
    2 So I bought her for myself for fifteen shekels of silver, and one and one-half homers of barley. 3 And I said to her, “You shall stay with me many days; you shall not play the harlot, nor shall you have a man—so, too, will I be toward you.”
    4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.
     
  17. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There appears to be another pleading of the 5th.
     
  18. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    I know many Jews who have been brought back have no Jewish but Even a Moabite after 10 generations was admitted. The people who hold the Torah for many generations and have faced the exact persecution for being Jewish n the lands they have been in exile and brought back into the land is evidence that these people who are gathered back from exile are the ones God counted. It is specific that the nation would come back and from every nation. Jews have emigrated to Israel from 100 of nations. Amos 9 declares God will wipe Israel out and immediately follows with a promise of a time when they will be planted and not thrown down anymore. In this text it distinguishes between Israel and Gentiles called by the LORD's name.

    On that day I will raise up
    The tabernacle[fn] of David, which has fallen down,
    And repair its damages;
    I will raise up its ruins,
    And rebuild it as in the days of old;
    12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,[fn]
    And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
    Says the LORD who does this thing.
    13 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD,
    “When the plowman shall overtake the reaper,
    And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;
    The mountains shall drip with sweet wine,
    And all the hills shall flow with it.
    14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;
    They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;
    They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;
    They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
    15 I will plant them in their land,
    And no longer shall they be pulled up
    From the land I have given them,”
    Says the LORD your God.

    If you look at Israel today and see psalm 83
    1 Do not keep silent, O God!
    Do not hold Your peace,
    And do not be still, O God!
    2 For behold, Your enemies make a tumult;
    And those who hate You have lifted up their head.
    3 They have taken crafty counsel against Your people,
    And consulted together against Your sheltered ones.
    4 They have said, “Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation,
    That the name of Israel may be remembered no more.”
    5 For they have consulted together with one consent;
    They form a confederacy against You:

    They are saying those things now. Prophetically Israel is to rebuild the temple and the abomination of desolation is to occur in the Temple. The man of sin is to be revealed in the temple. We see this nation now ready to restore the very sacrifices that are the key element for this to take place. So I am not sure why you ask who is Israel. Seems like that is a bit obvious that the events are playing out as if this Israel is counted as Israel in God's eyes since all the elements are set up as predicted.
     
  19. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So the answer is "2. Jewish religion", which today is Talmudism?
     
  20. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So? Ezekiel is part of one and same Covenant Israel like we Christians are. He was simply part of old testament congregation of Israel which is the body of Christ. But after the Cross, the Church now grafts into the same body of Christ (Covenant Tree, Israel). There are no two separation salvation programs between the two.
     
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