My Australia challenge

[Dave-W]

, but that does not make Oz vanish.

That takes a Wizard.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yeah, grape juice goes bad in Mediterranean climates, so would have been wine. It wasn't until the puritans and baptists brain washed all you guys into thinking it was juice... lol. Believe what you need to, though.

Puritans had no problem with booze actually. One of their few redeeming qualities. Historically neither did Baptists afik. Teetotalism is largely a 19th century invention via Methodism/Wesleyanism, which is why it shouldn't be surprising that the inventor of pasteurized grape juice, Dr. Welch, was a Methodist.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JackRT]

I've heard it said, beer is proof god loves us.

That was Benjamin Franklin IIRC.

 

[JackRT]

Watered down alcohol was often the drink of choice for all but the poorest people, as small amounts of alcohol would kill off many water born parasites and other diseases. Just because it was wine doesn't mean that it was a beverage a person could reasonably get drunk off of, or that it was the intent. Grape juice would not have been a common beverage in this time period, since it would go bad very quickly if not fermented into wine.

In biblical times wine was normally fermented to the maximum of about 16%. At that concentration the alcohol actually kills the yeast. Biblically this was called strong drink. However the wine was usually cut with water to bring down the alcohol content to 5 to 8%. Grape juice would only be available a few weeks a year during and just following harvest season. Beyond that time the wild yeasts would already be turning the juice into wine. Distillation of alcohol was not known until about the twelfth century. Among the common people the consumption of weak beer was actually more common than wine which was often reserved for special occasions.

 

[keith99]

Watered down alcohol was often the drink of choice for all but the poorest people, as small amounts of alcohol would kill off many water born parasites and other diseases. Just because it was wine doesn't mean that it was a beverage a person could reasonably get drunk off of, or that it was the intent. Grape juice would not have been a common beverage in this time period, since it would go bad very quickly if not fermented into wine.

Except that the text says they DID get drunk from it. Drunk enough that they could not tell the difference between really good wine and not so good wine. If Germans and Frenchmen are any indication that means they were falling down drunk as Germans and Frenchmen can tell the difference when they are drunk enough that they have trouble walking.

 

[PsychoSarah]

In biblical times wine was normally fermented to the maximum of about 16%. At that concentration the alcohol actually kills the yeast. Biblically this was called strong drink. However the wine was usually cut with water to bring down the alcohol content to 5 to 8%. Grape juice would only be available a few weeks a year during and just following harvest season. Beyond that time the wild yeasts would already be turning the juice into wine. Distillation of alcohol was not known until about the twelfth century. Among the common people the consumption of weak beer was actually more common than wine which was often reserved for special occasions.

Note how I said watered down alcohol, not watered down wine specifically. I know weak beer was what generally was consumed in this manner. Since AV's aversion to the idea that Jesus and his followers drank an alcoholic beverage is due to the potential to be inebriated, I wished to point out that alcohol, when sufficiently watered down, was safer to drink than just water from a stream during the times Jesus was alive. Also, replying to a very, very old post. Basically, I was suggesting that AV should consider it watered down wine rather than grape juice if he has such an issue with the idea of these biblical figures getting drunk.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Except that the text says they DID get drunk from it. Drunk enough that they could not tell the difference between really good wine and not so good wine. If Germans and Frenchmen are any indication that means they were falling down drunk as Germans and Frenchmen can tell the difference when they are drunk enough that they have trouble walking.

-_- I never said that it was more reasonable to consider the wine Jesus and co. drank was watered down versus having a normal alcohol content. Only that it was more reasonable for it to have been watered down wine than grape juice. I only humored the watered down wine possibility due to AV's aversion to people getting drunk.